The Error of Supersessionism

[TomL]

"Dietary" and "Sacrificial" are man made distinctions. The law is the law. There never has been such distinctions in Judaism.

Which is why Jews have a very hard time embracing Christ. They don't see their sinfulness through the law. They only see their supposed "righteousness".

Well Christians are not bound by them. The law consisted of moral, dietary and sacrificial regulations. There is continuing validity to the moral laws but not the others.

but

Romans 3:20 (ESV) — 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Romans 2:13 (ESV) — 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

with

Romans 3:9 (ESV) — 9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

Romans 3:19–20 (ESV) — 19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Really.... I literally LOL when I read this. That is something else. I would have never thought you would have made such a "wild" argument such as this.

How about... the 5 different times we find in Scripture that the "the earth is the Lord's....

Starting with

Exo 9:29 And Moses said unto him, As soon as I am gone out of the city, I will spread abroad my hands unto the LORD; and the thunder shall cease, neither shall there be any more hail; that thou mayest know how that the earth is the LORD'S.

Psa 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Being Biblical is a wild argument?
God gave the land to Abraham and his seed. Scripture says EXACTLY THAT in Genesis.
But if you want to present God as a liar and that the land will belong to Christ you go right ahead.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Dietary and sacrificial law? No we do not have to obey them

Yes, be disobedient to Christ's command to obey the Torah. I've presented the Word of God commanding obedience to the Torah.
If you want to reject God's Law that's on you.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Well Christians are not bound by them. The law consisted of moral, dietary and sacrificial regulations. There is continuing validity to the moral laws but not the others.

but

Romans 3:20 (ESV) — 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Romans 2:13 (ESV) — 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

with

Romans 3:9 (ESV) — 9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

Romans 3:19–20 (ESV) — 19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Christian is a Christ follower.
Christ commanded obedience to the Torah.
If you don't want to be obedient to Christ that's on you.
Good luck with that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
Dt 11:1.

Christ said, IF you love me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS (Torah.)

But this command is to God's obedient people. These are blessed of God. While the disobedient are cursed of God.
Judgment is coming. Be prepared.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, be disobedient to Christ's command to obey the Torah. I've presented the Word of God commanding obedience to the Torah.
If you want to reject God's Law that's on you.

Are you sacrificing animals for your sins?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Being Biblical is a wild argument?
God gave the land to Abraham and his seed. Scripture says EXACTLY THAT in Genesis.
But if you want to present God as a liar and that the land will belong to Christ you go right ahead.

You can try to take it from Messiah when He rules. We will see what happens..

 

[jeremiah1five]

Are you sacrificing animals for your sins?

You do not understand the covenants of God.
And being Gentile and ignorant of the Hebrew Scripture is typical and the basis of your belief that God's Torah doesn't exist.
I'm not your teacher. You must study this on your own.
I have and my understanding of God and His covenants has deepened, and I understand things that you reject in your Gentile ignorance.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You can try to take it from Messiah when He rules. We will see what happens..

You said the earth is the Lord's and I agree. And as owner He can give it to whomever He please and He has.
He's given land to Abraham and His seed.
This is why it's called the PROMISED LAND.
Promised to Abraham and his seed.
This is bible.
But you'd prefer to reject God's counsel and lean on your own Gentile understanding in the vanity of your mind.
After the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple by Gentiles it was only a matter of time before Gentiles created their own religion WHEN they unmoored true, Biblical, Jewish Christianity from its Hebrew roots and, yes, that's right, CREATED their own religion, another gospel, one that rejected Hebrew association in their covenants and stole not only their identity but all the terms and terminology that belonged to the Hebrew people.
Terms like "Church" and "saints" have identified the Hebrew people but through the centuries Gentiles have stolen them and made them their own.
God made no covenant with Gentiles.
And from my reading of Scripture, it doesn't turn out well for Gentiles at the end of Millenium.
God has set before you life and death. Obey God and live. Disobey God and die.
Nothing's changed. That's been the dictate of God from the beginning.
Be prepared.

 

[jeremiah1five]

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
Ezekiel 37:21–23.

God will fulfill His Promise to Abraham that his seed shall dwell in their own land, the Promised Land:



Those that obey God's Torah are blessed of God for their obedience:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev. 22:14.

And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Zechariah14:21.

God will Himself CLEANSE ALL GENTILES from the Promised Land and they shall dwell outside of New Israel.

And where shall they dwell?

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:15.

And what is prophesied for these people the Gentiles that live/dwell outside New Promised Israel?

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev. 20:7–10.

I think you should be really concerned as to how you treat Christ and His command to obey the Torah.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15.

He also said His commandments are not grievious.

Obey God and His Torah or disobey God and His Torah. There is no medium.

This IS the Word of God.

 

[TomL]

Christian is a Christ follower.
Christ commanded obedience to the Torah.
If you don't want to be obedient to Christ that's on you.
Good luck with that.

Well Christ never stated one must follow the Jewish dietary and sacrificial law and Paul who Christ handpicked disputes that as do other New Testament authors

 

[jeremiah1five]

Well Christ never stated one must follow the Jewish dietary and sacrificial law and Paul who Christ handpicked disputes that as do other New Testament authors

Oh, so you expect Him say we must obey every 613 Torah Laws individually? That's ridiculous.

Jesus' disciples knew what He meant when He said, "If you love me obey my commandments."

So, to practice NOT to obey Torah - which are His commands - is to show no love for the Son of God.

Peter declared "Thou art the Christ the Son of the Living God" and understood what "commandments" meant.

And James was a Judaizer as was Peter. And Saul was obedient to the Torah Laws even and especially AFTER He met Messiah on the Damascus road. Every Jewish Christian kept the Torah Laws.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.

As with the Constantinian Gentile church today you just don't want to obey Jesus Christ and would rather serve the creation rather than the Creator. It's typical of what Gentiles who falsely claim to be disciple and follower of Christ hold to in the past and today.
Gentile "Christianity" is not Biblical Christianity because they don't obey Christ's commands.
It's more honest to just say so than to make excuses to not obey Christ.
And more honest.

15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.
17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.
18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.
22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
Dt 28:15–22.

Psst...it's translated into English so the English-speaking can read and understand it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You do not understand the covenants of God.
And being Gentile and ignorant of the Hebrew Scripture is typical and the basis of your belief that God's Torah doesn't exist.
I'm not your teacher. You must study this on your own.
I have and my understanding of God and His covenants has deepened, and I understand things that you reject in your Gentile ignorance.

I understand it well. You're a Gentile yourself. You're "outside" of those covenants based upon your own theology.

I have never rejected the Torah. The Torah is more than the law given to Moses. Moses is dead. The Jews never keep the law. Never. King David was a murderer. So was Moses. Solomon couldn't keep his hands of countless women. We are all lawbreakers, Including yourself.

There is boasting be found in the law... yet here you are boasting.

It was a simple question. Not difficult to answer. Here... I'll answer.

No. I try to offer the sacrifice of praise continually upon lips to Jesus Christ. To whom all Glory and Honor is due. He alone is Worthy. It is His land.

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You said the earth is the Lord's and I agree. And as owner He can give it to whomever He please and He has.
He's given land to Abraham and His seed.
This is why it's called the PROMISED LAND.
Promised to Abraham and his seed.
This is bible.
But you'd prefer to reject God's counsel and lean on your own Gentile understanding in the vanity of your mind.
After the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple by Gentiles it was only a matter of time before Gentiles created their own religion WHEN they unmoored true, Biblical, Jewish Christianity from its Hebrew roots and, yes, that's right, CREATED their own religion, another gospel, one that rejected Hebrew association in their covenants and stole not only their identity but all the terms and terminology that belonged to the Hebrew people.
Terms like "Church" and "saints" have identified the Hebrew people but through the centuries Gentiles have stolen them and made them their own.
God made no covenant with Gentiles.
And from my reading of Scripture, it doesn't turn out well for Gentiles at the end of Millenium.
God has set before you life and death. Obey God and live. Disobey God and die.
Nothing's changed. That's been the dictate of God from the beginning.
Be prepared.

God never ceded ownership of anything. He simply allows us to enjoy HIS benefits.

Psa 103:1 A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
Psa 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Psa 103:4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;

Build your house on the Rock. Enjoy the privileges. However, you will never own that Rock.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Oh, so you expect Him say we must obey every 613 Torah Laws individually? That's ridiculous.

Jesus' disciples knew what He meant when He said, "If you love me obey my commandments."

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jews were always burdensome taskmasters.

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I understand it well. You're a Gentile yourself. You're "outside" of those covenants based upon your own theology.

I have never rejected the Torah. The Torah is more than the law given to Moses. Moses is dead. The Jews never keep the law. Never. King David was a murderer. So was Moses. Solomon couldn't keep his hands of countless women. We are all lawbreakers, Including yourself.

There is boasting be found in the law... yet here you are boasting.

It was a simple question. Not difficult to answer. Here... I'll answer.

No. I try to offer the sacrifice of praise continually upon lips to Jesus Christ. To whom all Glory and Honor is due. He alone is Worthy. It is His land.

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

As a watchman I do what my Lord taught in His Word. And if there are others in the camp that show hatred towards God, His Law, and His Christ by teaching the Law was "abolished" or "ended" and by doing so showing that person and persons hatred towards God, His Law, and His Christ, I am bound to my oath to God as a true follower to bring light to someone's darkened heart towards God.
The Scripture is clear. Jesus said, if you love me, you will obey me."
It's that simple.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God never ceded ownership of anything. He simply allows us to enjoy HIS benefits.

Psa 103:1 A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
Psa 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Psa 103:4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;

Build your house on the Rock. Enjoy the privileges. However, you will never own that Rock.

For someone who claims to know Scripture sure has difficulty in understanding the plain text of Scripture.

All that means nothing when one shows hatred towards God, His Law, and His Christ.

If you love Christ, you will obey His commandments, and being that Christ was the One who gave the Law for His people to follow, then we know His commandments is the Torah.
If you love Christ, you will obey His commandments.
If you don't obey His commandments, then you show you hate Christ.
It's that simple.
Jesus made it that simple.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jews were always burdensome taskmasters.

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Forget Jewish sinners, and Gentile sinners.

The command has come down from above.

IF you love me, you will obey my commandments.
If you don't obey my commandments, then you hate me.
There' a problem with so-called Christians who claim Christ and don't obey His commandments.

 

[synergy]

IF you knew Scripture, you would KNOW it is God's way:

The Hebrews will one day occupy their Promised Land and God Himself will cleanse their land of ALL Gentiles.

21 And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Zech. 14:21.

And if Gentiles have been cleansed of the Promised Land guess where Gentiles will live? Jewish Christians who obey the LORD and obey the Torah will live in their own land and enter the gates of New Jerusalem. And where will Gentiles live?

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs (Gentiles), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14–15.

Surely, after the judgment unbelievers will be in "hell" and where does this leave Gentile Christians? Living outside of the Promised Land. And before the 1000 years expire do you know what happens?

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev. 20:7–10.

I want to ask one thing of you after considering the Scripture above.

Is this Bible? Is this not the Word of God? WHO is REALLY doing the ethnic cleansing?

There were numerous righteous Gentiles in the OT. Your hostile ethnicism ideology wants to brand them all as "dogs". Not all Gentiles are dogs. In fact, The Bible states that there is no difference between Greek and Jews for everyone who is in Christ Jesus. That is the Bible, not your ECV (Ethnic Cleansing Version).

 

[jeremiah1five]

There were numerous righteous Gentiles in the OT. Your hostile ethnicism ideology wants to brand them all as "dogs". Not all Gentiles are dogs. In fact, The Bible states that there is no difference between Greek and Jews for everyone who is in Christ Jesus. That is the Bible, not your ECV (Ethnic Cleansing Version).

God calls Gentiles "dogs" not me. I only say the same thing as God because to do otherwise is to OPPOSE Him.

16 For dogs have compassed me:
The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me:
Ps 22:16.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. Mt 7:6.

7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD’s hand,
That made all the earth drunken:
The nations have drunken of her wine;
Therefore the nations are mad.
Jer.51:7.

Now we know who commits adultery with the Great Whore: Gentiles.