The Elect

FutureAndAHope said:
The question has to be asked, "Why has God chosen us?"

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever...Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. (NKJV, John 14:15-24)

There are two groups in the world:
  1. If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word
  2. He who does not love Me does not keep My words
Group 1) is given manifestation, and group 2) is denied sight.

Note that John 14, says there is an action of obedience we take before the Father's love is given. How does this work:

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God." (NKJV, John 3:19-21)

Those who delight in evil, will not come to the light, because they enjoy their wrongdoing. Those willing to go God's way, are willing to walk out of darkness into God's light.

I am sure someone will say, that we are not saved by our works, that is true. It is not our prior good deeds of righteousness, but a heart when seeing God's grace), ... but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ (NKJV, John 1:17) even the forgiveness of our past deeds, is willing to turn to God. This involves trust in the cross to forgive our sins. But also a desire to live within God's boundaries (obedience). The one not loving God, who is ungrateful, will not come to the cross, unwilling to change their lives.

But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (NKJV, John 5:40)
Click to expand...
Gee, does this sound like my contention that the elect lived and made the free will decision to put their faith in YHWH as their GOD and Saviour BEFORE they chose to become sinful in HIS sight and before their conception here on earth, born into the redemption of mankind?
 
TedT said:
Where does it say this?? I have at least two verses saying HE takes NO pleasure in their death.

Berean Standard Bible
Ezek 18:32 For I take no pleasure in anyone’s death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!

Berean Standard Bible
Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: ‘As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live.

To fulfill HIS pleasure therefore HE would NOT create those condemned to death before their creation...but once they self created themselves as vessels of wrath HE would judge them even though that was not HIS original purpose for them.
Click to expand...
Those verses are out of context and pertain to the House of Israel, nothing to do with eternal salvation issues.

Yet God created some men for eternal death, they are called vessels of wrath fitted for destruction.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
I take no pleasure in shopping, but I still do it because it is necessary. Stop declaring what God would or would not do. You are in no position to assume those things.
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Rev 4:11 “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are, and were created.”
So if HE takes pleasure in their creation but takes NO pleasure in their death, then it is because something has changed and they are no longer within that pleasure HE created them within....

By their free will they have become other to HIM than what HIS pleasure had HIM create them to be:
Deuteronomy 32:5 “They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children because of their blemish but a perverse and crooked generation.
HE did not create anybody as wicked.
HE did not create anybody to become wicked.
When they chose to destroy what HE created for HIS pleasure in their creation, they become eternally blemished, eternally unfit to fulfil HIS purpose in their creation, fit only to be banished to the outer darkness.
 
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TedT said:
Rev 4:11 “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are, and were created.”
So if HE takes pleasure in their creation but takes NO pleasure in their death, then it is because something has changed and they are no longer within that pleasure HE created them within....

By their free will they have become other to HIM than what HIS pleasure had HIM create them to be:
Deuteronomy 32:5 “They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children because of their blemish but a perverse and crooked generation.
HE did not create anybody as wicked.
HE did not create anybody to become wicked.
When they chose to destroy what HE created for HIS pleasure in their creation, they become eternally blemished, eternally unfit to fulfil HIS purpose in their creation, fit only to be banished to the outer darkness.
Click to expand...
He created some for hell/eternal death, so they were created for His Pleasure.
 
TedT said:
Where does it say this?? I have at least two verses saying HE takes NO pleasure in their death.

Berean Standard Bible
Ezek 18:32 For I take no pleasure in anyone’s death, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!, declares the Lord GOD. So repent and live!

Berean Standard Bible
Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: ‘As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live.

To fulfill HIS pleasure therefore HE would NOT create those condemned to death before their creation...but once they self created themselves as vessels of wrath HE would judge them even though that was not HIS original purpose for them.
Click to expand...

It's allegory about Jesus taking no pleasure in the death of the other people being crucified. /s
 
FutureAndAHope said:
Yet God says, not only He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but also "turn and live". He does not desire the wicked's death.
Click to expand...

The Calvinist will insist that such verses are not absolutes. That this "really means" that God takes more pleasure when people actually "turn to Him" than He does those who are predestined to damnation actually die.

Obvious ask would be...

If God is all about His own pleasure, they why not save everyone?

This is just more proof that God doesn't always get what He wants or what pleases Him. It is an oxymoron to claim such nonsenses relative to Divinity.
 
praise_yeshua said:
The Calvinist will insist that such verses are not absolutes. That this "really means" that God takes more pleasure when people actually "turn to Him" than He does those who are predestined to damnation actually die.

Obvious ask would be...

If God is all about His own pleasure, they why not save everyone?

This is just more proof that God doesn't always get what He wants or what pleases Him. It is an oxymoron to claim such nonsenses relative to Divinity.
Click to expand...

It should read, "God takes less pleasure in the death of those he loves less."
 

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