The Elect

brightfame52 said:
I have shown what I need to show, however I cant make you see.You are at Gods Mercy to be able to see any Spiritual Truth
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No you did not, you assumed it contrary to scripture

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (ESV) — 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Romans 5:18 (ESV) — 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

1 John 2:2 (ESV) — 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9 (ESV) — 9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) — 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
 
@praise_yeshua

We are all the offspring of one man and women.
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True but we are not all the offspring of Christ. Christ has a offspring Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed is the hebrew word zeraʿ:
  1. offspring, descendants, posterity, children

Christs offspring enters into the world by one man and women and those who are not Christs offspring but of the devils offspring they enter into the world by one man and women, like cain and abel !
 
TomL said:
No you did not, you assumed it contrary to scripture

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (ESV) — 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Romans 5:18 (ESV) — 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

1 John 2:2 (ESV) — 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9 (ESV) — 9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) — 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
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All those verses pertain to the elect.
 
brightfame52 said:
Did the lord make the wicked
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If you believe that, Do you also hold to traducianism?

or are going to claim God created sinful souls contrary to

Ecclesiastes 7:29 (ESV) — 29 See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.
 
brightfame52 said:
All those verses pertain to the elect.
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All men/people are not synonyms for the elect

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (ESV) — 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Romans 5:18 (ESV) — 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

1 John 2:2 (ESV) — 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9 (ESV) — 9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) — 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
 
TomL said:
If you believe that, Do you also hold to traducianism?

or are going to claim God created sinful souls contrary to

Ecclesiastes 7:29 (ESV) — 29 See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.
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Yeah I believe it, the scripture says it. As for Ecc 7:29 that pertains to the Elect, the non elect reprobate have never been upright before God because they were never chosen in Christ.
 
TomL said:
You mean "I say God planned it."

So according to your view, God determines to reprobate most of what he would create and therefore determined the fall to effect that reprobation?

I find that a terrible view of God.

contrary to

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (ESV) — 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) — 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Click to expand...

Your scripture quotes are out of context. For example, in 2 Peter, the context of "any" refers to the "any of the elect", which is to whom he is writing. In 1 Timothy he is telling people to pray for kings and those in authority, that God doesn't just desire for the common folk to be saved, but also those in authority, too. That's what he means by "all people". All without distinction, not all without exception.

Your interpretation of scripture is filtered through your limited view of God, that is, "God is love". God has other attributes, such as God is sovereign. God is righteous. When I read scripture, I simply trust God's motives, that whatever He does is right. If something makes me uncomfortable, I simply remember that God's ways are beyond our comprehension.

For example, why would a loving God require people to slaughter innocent animals as part of sacrifice? That really offended me as a new Christian. Then I realized EVERYTHING is God's creation, and God can do with His creation as He pleases. If He can't, then he's not God. He's a lesser deity who is not sovereign over what He creates.
 
TomL said:
All men/people are not synonyms for the elect

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (ESV) — 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 45:22 (ESV) — 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Romans 5:18 (ESV) — 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

1 John 2:2 (ESV) — 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9 (ESV) — 9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) — 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Click to expand...
Yes they all are, the elect and them only. Even Isa 45:22

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel is the Elect from all nations


25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Salvation/Justification in Christ is promised only to Israel Gods elect from all nations
 
praise_yeshua said:
You need to study the Scriptures. Not the English mistaken translations that are produced at the whims of man.
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Yes look at the variance in translating the verse.

New International Version
The LORD works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster.

New Living Translation
The LORD has made everything for his own purposes, even the wicked for a day of disaster.

English Standard Version
The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Berean Standard Bible
The LORD has made everything for His purpose—even the wicked for the day of disaster.

King James Bible
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

New King James Version
The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

New American Standard Bible
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

NASB 1995
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

NASB 1977
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

Legacy Standard Bible
Yahweh has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

Amplified Bible
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked [according to their role] for the day of evil.

Christian Standard Bible
The LORD has prepared everything for his purpose — even the wicked for the day of disaster.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The LORD has prepared everything for His purpose— even the wicked for the day of disaster.

American Standard Version
Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
All the works of LORD JEHOVAH are for those that submit to him, and the evil are kept for the day of evil.

Contemporary English Version
The LORD has a reason for everything he does, and he lets evil people live only to be punished.

Douay-Rheims Bible
The Lord hath made all things for himself: the wicked also for the evil day.

English Revised Version
The LORD hath made every thing for its own end: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD has made everything for his own purpose, even wicked people for the day of trouble.

Good News Translation
Everything the LORD has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked is destruction.

International Standard Version
The LORD made everything answerable to him, including the wicked at the time of trouble.

JPS Tanakh 1917
The LORD hath made every things for His own purpose, Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Literal Standard Version
YHWH has worked all things for Himself, | And also the wicked—for a day of evil.

Majority Standard Bible
The LORD has made everything for His purpose—even the wicked for the day of disaster.

New American Bible
The LORD has made everything for a purpose, even the wicked for the evil day.

NET Bible
The LORD works everything for its own ends--even the wicked for the day of disaster.

New Revised Standard Version
The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

New Heart English Bible
The LORD has made everything for its own end--yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Webster's Bible Translation
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.

World English Bible
Yahweh has made everything for its own end— yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Young's Literal Translation
All things hath Jehovah wrought for Himself, And also the wicked worketh for a day of evil.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Your scripture quotes are out of context. For example, in 2 Peter, the context of "any" refers to the "any of the elect", which is to whom he is writing. In 1 Timothy he is telling people to pray for kings and those in authority, that God doesn't just desire for the common folk to be saved, but also those in authority, too. That's what he means by "all people". All without distinction, not all without exception.

Your interpretation of scripture is filtered through your limited view of God, that is, "God is love". God has other attributes, such as God is sovereign. God is righteous. When I read scripture, I simply trust God's motives, that whatever He does is right. If something makes me uncomfortable, I simply remember that God's ways are beyond our comprehension.

For example, why would a loving God require people to slaughter innocent animals as part of sacrifice? That really offended me as a new Christian. Then I realized EVERYTHING is God's creation, and God can do with His creation as He pleases. If He can't, then he's not God. He's a lesser deity who is not sovereign over what He creates.
Click to expand...
If God is love and Scripture says He is then can God do anything that is unloving ? yes or no
 
brightfame52 said:
@praise_yeshua



True but we are not all the offspring of Christ. Christ has a offspring Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed is the hebrew word zeraʿ:
  1. offspring, descendants, posterity, children

Christs offspring enters into the world by one man and women and those who are not Christs offspring but of the devils offspring they enter into the world by one man and women, like cain and abel !
Click to expand...

Never said any differently.

You are the one that claims you're born of that seed while denying that same benefit to others that are just like you.

You are no different than any the countless other biological offspring of Adam and Eve.
 
civic said:
If God is love and Scripture says He is then can God do anything that is unloving ? yes or no
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When God sends people into the lake of fire will He be as you say unloving ? Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 
praise_yeshua said:
Ostrich syndrome.....
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Its like or similar to a chemical imbalance in the brain. When you point out for instance God is love they will run to what they consider the opposite of love in scripture with verses about judgement, wrath, vengeance etc..... They will not deal with the scriptures in discussion or they will change the very meaning of the words like love, world, atonement etc......

Its so predictable we just witnessed this very thing first hand while I was writing this response it happened as an answer to my question.

oh the irony lol.
 

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