civic
Active Member
yep !
The doctrine of election
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Nope. Sorry.
If one does not do those things one us not saved and has no saviour. Logically.
brightfame52
Active Member
To be saved yes, to get saved no. Believing is necessary as the fruit and evidence of having been saved Matt 13:23
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
See the ground is good, saved then when the Gospel comes, the saved hear it, understand it spiritually and beareth fruit, such fruit as faith and repentance. But the fruit is evidence of salvation, not conditions.
@TibiasDad
Let me ask you a question: are the words "save/saved/salvation" used only in the sense of being saved from sin and condemnation?
I will answer this for you, and the answer is no, as a matter of fact, it is seldom used in this sense in comparison to other senses the Holy Ghost uses the words: save/saved/salvation.
Can you be born again, and not saved with a knowledge that another brother may have? Yes.
Can you be born again, and not believe certain biblical truth? Yes
Can you be born again, and even fight again, or reject certain biblical truths? Yes
Can you be born again and be very slow to receive certain truths? Yes
Your question is very misleading, and is a question that a man with spiritual wisdom, and understanding, would never ask.
Let me ask you a question: are the words "save/saved/salvation" used only in the sense of being saved from sin and condemnation?
I will answer this for you, and the answer is no, as a matter of fact, it is seldom used in this sense in comparison to other senses the Holy Ghost uses the words: save/saved/salvation.
Can you be born again and not believe? Absoultely.
Can you be born again, and not saved with a knowledge that another brother may have? Yes.
Can you be born again, and not believe certain biblical truth? Yes
Can you be born again, and even fight again, or reject certain biblical truths? Yes
Can you be born again and be very slow to receive certain truths? Yes
Of course, Hebrews 11:6. But only one born of the Spirit first can have faith. Romans 7:18, only the new man can have faith, the old man cannot, impossible. Romans 8:7,9
Never.
brightfame52
Active Member
Covenant of Grace
It is not in the power of the creature to believe in Christ; {Phil.1:29;} therefore look not upon faith as a work of thine own, nor is faith any condition of the Covenant required on thy part; for as the Covenant of grace is not made with man, but with Christ; {Psal.89:27-30;} nor is there any condition in the Covenant of Grace required on man’s part, neither is there anything to be done by man to cause him to have an interest in the Covenant of grace, or to partake of it, for the Covenant of grace and life by Christ is every way free and unconditional on man’s part, else how doth it differ from a Covenant of works, if there were anything to be done by us to have interest in it; and if faith were a condition required on our part to partake of the Covenant, or else not, I see not but we are now in as bad a condition as to be under the Covenant of works, it being as hard and impossible for man of himself to believe in Christ, as it is to keep the whole Law, as the Scripture declares. How hard it is to believe, the experience of many can testify, as to believe is a fruit of the Spirit. {Gal.5:22} Samuel Richardson {Saint’s Desire, 1647} https://supralapsarian.com/Samuel_Richardson.htm
civic
Active Member
I know I've done it and I don't judge another persons salvation who believes in the Trinity and Deity of Christ.
civic
Active Member
@brightfame52
His article on Justification by faith is the best that I personally have ever read. John Brine is right there with him.
It is one of my favorite men to read behind, which I have read much of his work. He was a particular Baptist, one of the men behind the London confession of faith in its first edition ~1644.
His article on Justification by faith is the best that I personally have ever read. John Brine is right there with him.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes he has some edifying material !
The big difference is we see that mankind was corrupted in the Fall and experienced spiritual death, and so apart from the person and working of and by the Holy Spirit, shall never come to trust in Jesus to save them from their sins
TibiasDad
Active Member
Phil 1:29For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him…
χαρίζομαι,
5483 xarízomai (from 5485/xáris, "grace, extending favor") – properly, to extend favor ("grace"), freely give favorto grant forgiveness (pardon).
5483 /xarízomai ("favor that cancels") is used of God giving His grace to pardon. This is freely done and therefore not based on any merit of the one receiving forgiveness.
[5483 (xarízomai) literally means, "to exercise grace, freely show favor," i.e. willingly ("graciously") bestow.]
Thus, it means “to grant as a favor”; God allows us to believe, gives us the opportunity to believe and something to believe in that we would not have had otherwise.
It does not mean that God gives us belief.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
I know all this, for the last 4 decades
It does mean that so you reject the truth, He doesnt give it to everyone, its limited to the election of grace, believing in Christ is of Grace.
And charizomai means :to give graciously, give freely, bestow
And it means God gives them forgiveness Eph 4:32
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
TibiasDad
Active Member
I reject your interpretation; no more, no less! We may disagree with each other’s opinions, but there is no rejection of “the truth” that Christ died for our sins “so that whoever believes shall not perish but have life everlasting”!
We are withheld from God’s salvation by our own choice to reject belief in his Son. John3:18
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
You reject the clear teaching of scripture. It does you no good to show you truth, you right out reject it. That scripture states as plain as the noon day sun, to believe on Christ was given to them, along with suffering for Him Phil 1;29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
And you with no hesitation say "It does not mean that God gives us belief." Also this Gift of believing dispels unbelief.
TibiasDad
Active Member
“to believe on him” is an infinitive, a verb form and verbs are not given to anyone, only the opportunity to do it.
I can’t give you “run” or “laugh” I can only give you the chance to run or laugh. Belief cannot be given to anyone. Only evidence that belief is warranted can be given. Belief must be placed in something not given by something only to be returned again. My trust is mine alone to place in whatever I discern to be trustworthy.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
This doesnt change anything, you are still rejecting and subverting the truth, using the greek just adds to your wresting of the truth
TibiasDad
Active Member
Well excuse me for using the biblical language as the basis for my argument; at least one of us does!
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
You just denied scripture
brightfame52
Active Member
You cant see truth when its right in front of your eyes Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
