The doctrine of election

[TibiasDad]

Again tt boils down to this:

Its no way around it, you believe man by what he does determines Salvation, Thats man made false religion

Does God require belief, @brightfame52? Is belief man’s responsibility?

God’s requirements, man’s obligation. God’s promises, man’s trust in God.

If we are condemned for not believing, then believing is a necessary action for man. It is something he must do to be saved. Thus, man has a necessary responsibility- and that by God’s plan. Man is not passive in the process, but his actions are not meritorious. He doesn’t earn salvation but he is given the right to salvation when he believes.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Accept all are not saved, hence He is not the saviour of the whole world. Common sense

“Except” all are not saved…

 

[Presby02]

accept not all have Jesus as their Lord, their King just like Savior.

even AI knows this it true lol

Lord, Savior, and King are pivotal, biblically-rooted titles for God, particularly emphasizing Jesus Christ's divinity, authority, and redemptive role. "Lord" denotes supreme authority (


, Kyrios), "Savior" highlights His role in rescuing humanity (Redeemer), and "King" signifies His sovereign rule over creation (


Key Aspects of These Titles:

• Lord (Adonai/Kyrios): Represents God's absolute power, authority, and ownership over creation. It is often used to describe the relationship between God and believers, highlighting Him as Master.
• Savior (Redeemer/Deliverer): Emphasizes God as the rescuer who saves humanity from sin and death. Jesus is identified as the "Savior" who brings salvation.
• King (Sovereign/Ruler): Highlights God's supreme reign and, in the context of Jesus, fulfills messianic promises as the Ruler of Israel and the ultimate King of Kings

Accept you believe world means every single person who has ever lived. It says He is the. saviour of the world. So is Christ the saviour of those in hell. Those who are also part of the. whole world.

 

[Presby02]

“Except” all are not saved…

Exactly.

 

[TibiasDad]

Exactly.

That doesn’t mean they weren’t able to be saved. There was a Savior for them; they did not believe in him.


Doug

 

[Presby02]

That doesn’t mean they weren’t able to be saved. There was a Savior for them; they did not believe in him.


Doug

According to you and yours He is their saviour. Their just not saved.

 

[TibiasDad]

According to you and yours He is their saviour. Their just not saved.

Correct, just as @civic has pointed out that Jesus is both Lord and God, but many deny these states of his being too. He is the Savior for all, especially those who believe. 1Tim 4:10 1John 2:1-2


Doug

 

[Presby02]

Correct, just as @civic has pointed out that Jesus is both Lord and God, but many deny these states of his being too. He is the Savior for all, especially those who believe. 1Tim 4:10 1John 2:1-2


Doug

Great. Him being Lord and God is true. Being the saviour of the whole world, all whoever lived, apparently is not. It all basically comes down to one's understanding of the word "world" in this particular text. In my opinion, if your understanding is correct then Hitler could claim Christ as His saviour. He is part of the "world" as you seem to understand the word.

 

[civic]

Correct, just as @civic has pointed out that Jesus is both Lord and God, but many deny these states of his being too. He is the Savior for all, especially those who believe. 1Tim 4:10 1John 2:1-2


Doug

Amen

 

[civic]

Great. Him being Lord and God is true. Being the saviour of the whole world, all whoever lived, apparently is not. It all basically comes down to one's understanding of the word "world" in this particular text. In my opinion, if your understanding is correct then Hitler could claim Christ as His saviour. He is part of the "world" as you seem to understand the word.

Nope not unless he repented of his sin, confessed Jesus is Lord and believed and received the gospel as per Jesus and the Apostles teachings

 

[brightfame52]

Does God require belief, @brightfame52? Is belief man’s responsibility?

You promoting works and conditions ! All of Salvation is Gods responsibility, Christs ! Its Christ who saves.

 

[Presby02]

Nope not unless he repented of his sin, confessed Jesus is Lord and believed and received the gospel as per Jesus and the Apostles teachings

Then He is not his saviour is he.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope not unless he repented of his sin,

Which repentance is given by Christ as Saviour of His elect body Acts 5:31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

A person cant repent and confess unless its given by Christ as He saves you

 

[civic]

Then He is not his saviour is he.

By that reasoning Jesus is not God, Lord, King etc…..

 

[TibiasDad]

You promoting works and conditions ! All of Salvation is Gods responsibility, Christs ! Its Christ who saves.

Nobody say that we save ourselves; God the Father saves us through Christ alone, but only when we trust him to do so. Until belief, no one is born again.

By the way, there are always conditions, even in your system of thought. For you are saved on the condition that God causes you to be born again and then believe; I merely say that God places the condition on our shoulders to trust him to do what he promises. (That is how relationships work, after all; both parties have responsibilities within it.)


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Nobody say that we save ourselves;

Of course you arent saying it directly, its cloaked with Grace language, but it still equates to salvation by the doing of man. Salvation was determined by the election of God and its an election of grace, and for a remnant. Rom 11:5-6

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And if by grace[election], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[TibiasDad]

Of course you arent saying it directly, its cloaked with Grace language, but it still equates to salvation by the doing of man. Salvation was determined by the election of God and its an election of grace, and for a remnant. Rom 11:5-6

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And if by grace[election], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Rom 11:5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

Those who believe are chosen by Grace because they do not deserve it and God didn’t have to do it. It is a remnant because not everyone will believe, in fact most will not believe.



6And if by grace,
Not Elect!

then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Herein lies the crux of the matter; Grace is grace, as stated above, because we don’t deserve salvation; that’s why works can’t work and why “it cannot be based on works”.

We can’t ever be worthy of salvation, so the concept of earning it is an impossible concept. It has to be Grace for there is no other option. God cannot be obligated by anything outside of himself, so our actions cannot obligate him to save us. It has to be God’s choice because he is the offend party, and only the offended party can effect the restoration of the relationship.

The concept of merit is the invalidation of works, not that it is a human action.


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 11:5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

Yes, that's Salvation by Grace apart from works whether jew or gentile

Those who believe are chosen by Grace

Thats works, believing is a performance of an action.

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 11:5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

Those who believe are chosen by Grace because they do not deserve it and God didn’t have to do it. It is a remnant because not everyone will believe, in fact most will not believe.

Salvation by grace is a man saved by nothing he has done.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation by Grace, the election of grace is not for all, but for a remnant. Thats why its called a remnant according to the election of grace, Its a special chosen people 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;