The death of Jesus was a sacrifice

[Pancho Frijoles]

no person is ever born a sheep in the bible. One becomes a sheep. You clearly do not understand Jesus teaching and metaphors in the Bible.

next fallacy

Jesus used the analogy of sheep that belong to a shepherd in two ways: those who follow the voice of Jesus are his sheep. But those who get lost are also his sheep, and that's why He goes out and look for them until He brings them home. (Let's remember the parable of the 99 sheep that are left secure while the shepherd goes out to get the one lost).

So, to me the best way to envision these two sides of the analogy is that we are all born sheep of Christ. Some realize that and behave like that, following the voice of the Shepherd wherever He calls them.
Other sheep lose this connection and get lost. From their perspective, they do not see the Christ as their shepherd. They don't even remember they are Christ's sheep. But from the perspective of Christ, they keep being their sheep. We may reject the shepherd, but the shepherd does not reject us.

Same with the analogy of children of God. We are all born His children. Some of them get astray like the Prodigal Son. But still the Father considers us his children and He is willing to adopt us when he come back to Him. So we are both natural children and adoptive children.

 

[civic]

Jesus used the analogy of sheep that belong to a shepherd in two ways: those who follow the voice of Jesus are his sheep. But those who get lost are also his sheep, and that's why He goes out and look for them until He brings them home. (Let's remember the parable of the 99 sheep that are left secure while the shepherd goes out to get the one lost).

So, to me the best way to envision these two sides of the analogy is that we are all born sheep of Christ. Some realize that and behave like that, following the voice of the Shepherd wherever He calls them.
Other sheep lose this connection and get lost. From their perspective, they do not see the Christ as their shepherd. They don't even remember they are Christ's sheep. But from the perspective of Christ, they keep being their sheep. We may reject the shepherd, but the shepherd does not reject us.

Same with the analogy of children of God. We are all born His children. Some of them get astray like the Prodigal Son. But still the Father considers us his children and He is willing to adopt us when he come back to Him. So we are both natural children and adoptive children.

The Bible uses the sheep and the goats as two different groups in the judgment. The sheep are saved and the goats are not saved.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Jesus put little children as examples of the spiritual condition needed to enter the Kingdom of God
Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like little children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven (Mat 18:3)

and Jesus also said
Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them. For to such belongs the kingdom of heaven (Mat 19:14)

So, on biblical and rational grounds, it is indisputable that babies and little children are born into the condition of citizens of the Kingdom. A condition that is lost and must be regained through the grace of God.
The metaphor of "being born again" precisely points out to the state of a newborn.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The Bible uses the sheep and the goats as two different groups in the judgment. The sheep are saved and the goats are not saved.

Yes, the analogy is used in several different ways.
Certainly, people who do not love their neighbors are not in a state of salvation, and this is the criteria that defines their condition.

In Matthew 25, Jesus recalls a very well-known activity of shepherds, who at certain moments or for certain activities separate the sheep from the goats they care for. Both sheep and goats are the possession of the owner (or shepherd) and both were equally seen by ancient Israelites as "clean", valuable and proper for the ritual sacrifices.

 

[TomL]

Sure its in the bible. Christ prayed for His Sheep to believe in Him through the word before they were ever born. Jn 17:9-20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Um that simply states Christ prays for them who will believe in him

It says nothing at all about their being his sheep before they believe

as was noted

Sorry that idea is not from the bible, and you just ignored scripture

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If they are not hearing his voice and following him, they are not his sheep

Maybe you should forget what your theology tells you and believe scripture

and you simply ignore

 

[brightfame52]

Um that simply states Christ prays for them who will believe in him

It says nothing at all about their being his sheep before they believe

as was noted

Sorry that idea is not from the bible, and you just ignored scripture

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If they are not hearing his voice and following him, they are not his sheep

Maybe you should forget what your theology tells you and believe scripture

and you simply ignore

Those who Christ prayed for in the future to believe, were His Sheep that had not been born, and they were born unbelievers. Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[jeremiah1five]

All the elect are born into this world Sheep

Yes, they do because they were contemplated as saved "sheep" in the Mind of God before He created heaven, earth, and man.
We might be born sinful and sinner, but we are sheep that are "lost" by virtue of no longer being in God when He contemplated us (foreknowledge) and were 'transferred' into the nostrils of Adam when God blew into his nostrils the breath of life. At the appointed time we are born into the world as "sheep" (predestined to be saved) at the appointed time born again.
God ordained that His creatures bring forth offspring "after their kind" and it is inconsistent to believe we are born goat, become born again and now we are sheep. This doesn't happen in the natural realm, and it doesn't happen in the spiritual realm. We are elect and chosen from before the foundation (creation) of the world.
At least on this we agree.

 

[TomL]

Those who Christ prayed for in the future to believe, were His Sheep that had not been born, and they were born unbelievers. Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Sorry that says nothing at all about being born his sheep, that is your theology not scripture.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry that says nothing at all about being born his sheep, that is your theology not scripture.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

It does, Jesus said other Sheep I have [present tense] and they shall hear my voice [future tense] so they werent even born yet, for He is speaking of Sheep that would believe on Him hundreds of years later, they hadn't been born sinners yet, but they were still His Sheep. Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[civic]

Sorry that says nothing at all about being born his sheep, that is your theology not scripture.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

yes they add to scripture the word " BORN " as they do with everything else with tulip and the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

yes they add to scripture the word " BORN " as they do with everything else with tulip and the gospel.

So what about the Apostle Paul, was he a Sheep of Christ at his birth from is mothers womb and while he was an persecuting unbeliever ? Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
1 Tim 1:13

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

 

[civic]

So what about the Apostle Paul, was he a Sheep of Christ at his birth from is mothers womb and while he was an persecuting unbeliever ? Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
1 Tim 1:13

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

no the bible does not call Paul a sheep you added that to scripture like you did with born in your last post.

 

[brightfame52]

no the bible does not call Paul a sheep you added that to scripture like to did with born in your last post.

I say he was a Sheep from his Mothers womb, it just goes to show that Sheep are born sinners like anyone else, thats why Christ layed down His Life for them duh Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Now why lay down your life Jesus for the Sheep if they werent sinners and unbelievers ?

 

[civic]

I say he was a Sheep from his Mothers womb, it just goes to show that Sheep are born sinners like anyone else, thats why Christ layed down His Life for them duh Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Now why lay down your life Jesus for the Sheep if they werent sinners and unbelievers ?

the bible doesn't.

next

 

[brightfame52]

the bible doesn't.

next

Thats to you

 

[civic]

Thats to you

nope you have to add sheep to the text about Paul and add born to the text about sheep.

the bible warns a curse upon those who add or take away from scripture.

tulip both adds and takes away from scripture which is why its a false doctrine, a false gospel. And as Paul says " another jesus "

Next

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus sacrifice was limited to the Children of God, not all mankind Jn 11:49-52

49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Eph 1:10


That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

 

[civic]

Jesus sacrifice was limited to the Children of God, not all mankind Jn 11:49-52

49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Eph 1:10


That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

No its for all the world as Jesus taught in John 3:16-18 and John in 1 John 2:2- For all the world and for everyone.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

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[brightfame52]

No its for all the world as Jesus taught in John 3:16-18 and John in 1 John 2:2- For all the world and for everyone.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

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Those scriptures refer to the children of God

 

[civic]

Those scriptures refer to the children of God

Nope unbelievers who become believers by believing and receiving the gospel and calling out to Jesus as their Lord. Bible Basics 101. Gospel Basics 101.

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