The Covenant Context of Salvation

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Amen !
The difference between the Mosaic (Old) Covenant and the New Covenant is:
THE HOLY SPIRIT!

God still requires that we obey Him..
GOD DID NOT CHANGE.

But now...we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is our helper.
So it's HOW we can obey that has changed.

What was once written on stone
Is now written upon the hearts of all whose faith be in JESUS THE CHRIST . now to the trenches
for many have something else written upon their hearts , and while they call it love and claim it to be of GOD
FRIEND ITS PUMPING OUT UTTER REBELLION towards GOD .
He or she who seeketh the table of interfaith all inclusive common ground
And does all to try and polish it up and make it seem as though tis for a good cause ,
IS as a people lost .
Ye can polish up a turd all day , but in the end its still just dung . That is interfaith . a collective lie
meant only to merge the decieved with the decieved .

 

[Studyman]

If you were an ancient Egyptian, God would not have expected you to follow the Hebrews to the desert and accept the covenant made through Moses. That’s why we see no attempt from Moses to convert the Egyptians to the God of Israel.

Ex. 12: 37And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.38And a "mixed multitude" went up also "with them"; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

The offer was the same, as God instructed Moses to say, to the homeborn, and those strangers who would choose to embark on the journey with them. There were Israelites by blood who chose to stay in Egypt, and there were Egyptians by blood who chose to sojourn with Moses.

Spiritually speaking, I was a Stranger, an Egyptian worshipping the gods of the land I lived in. I heard about the God of Abraham, and chose to SEEK Him out, or God chose me to Seek Him out, I cannot say, just as Cornelious and the Centurian did. While it is true I didn't SEE the river turned to Blood, like the Egyptians and Israelites did, nor did I see the Lord's Christ murdered for simply promoting obedience to the God of Abraham, like the Centurian and Cornelious did, but I heard about Him and His Promises, His Power, like Rehab and the Ninevites, and I believed, like they did and I am being diligent to be found of Him without Spot, and Blameless. As it is written;

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

According to Scriptures, the God of the Bible calls men to "Deny Themselves" and "Yield themselves" to Him, of their own free will, and embark on a Spiritual Journey, an Exodus to a promised destination. These Spiritual Parables are written as guidelines and examples of what a man who "Joins himself" to the Lord, will encounter along the journey, along with warnings about the gods/religions of the land we journey through, and their influence on men.



The practice of different religions competing with each other for contributing members, or as it is called, "Converting" men to one religious sect of this world or another, is a popular religious tradition. I don't believe God's Messengers engaged in such a competition. After all, there is only ONE God, in my understanding. And His Temple is in the mind of men.

If you were an ancient Egyptian, God would have expected you to keep the moral laws you are referring to, be kind with the Hebrews and help them to leave as free people. That’s it.

I see. This is an interesting perspective. The implication of this religious philosophy seems to be that the God of Abraham was simply defending the right of Israel or the Egyptians to worship the God/god of their choice, as long as they had Laws against murder and theft and promoted kindness one to another.

So basically, what you are saying is that the God of Abraham, with Laws against murder and theft, and the god's of Egypt, who had laws against murder and theft, are the same, and were basically competing against each other for worshippers in Egypt, and the God of Abraham was defending the rights of men to worship whatever God they wanted, without undue pressure from the other.

I'm not sure this is the teaching God intended, given what is written in scriptures. But it makes for a great study topic.

If you were an ancient Chaldean or Sumerian, God would have expected you to abide by the well developed moral system they had. Abraham was not called by God to convert the Sumerians, was he? He was called to leave his place and culture so that a new nation could be founded.

This is a fascinating teaching, Pancho. The implication of this philosophy is that the gods of the land that Abraham's Father worshipped, were just fine as long as they had laws against murder and theft. The God of Noah's call for Abram to leave his past life, had nothing to do with the worship of other gods, or disobedience to the God of Noah's commandments or Judgments. In this religious philosophy, the God of Noah just wanted to start a new Religion.

I will have to think about this one a bit.

I will share my thoughts on the rest of your reply shortly. Interesting discussion for sure.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, Christianity has their own rules and judgments, their own sabbaths, their own high days, their own image of God in the likeness of man etc. And they have rejected much of God's Judgments, God's sabbaths and the Feasts of the Lord.

Does it matter? Perhaps not, but it is true.

According to the Jesus of the Bible, man is to "Live By" all of God's Word, not mans. According to Peter we are to obey God, rather than man. According to Paul, man is supposed to "Yield himself" to God, not the popular religious philosophies or traditions of this world God placed us in.

I would say that according to what is written in scriptures, this is how and has always been how men learn obedience to God. It's how Abraham obeyed, and Caleb obeyed, and Zacharias obeyed. They "Yielded themselves" to God. The difference between the prophesied new covenant and the old, was the manner in which God's Laws are received. As Hebrews teaches, we no longer receive the Law under the Levitical Priesthood, who had exclusive access to the Law and Prophets. We now have the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own mind, we just need to believe all that is written.

Great Studyman.
Agreed.

And we no longer engage in the sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins that Johann revealed in the answer to my question to him. We have an incorruptible Priest, who offered for our sins to Hos Father, to provide for us the remission of sins, and is become our advocate between God and us, "Because", as it is written, "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Again...agreed.
Nothing to add.

And we have the promises of the Christ.

John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray "the Father", "and he shall give you another Comforter", that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him (The Father) not, neither knoweth him: (The Father) but ye know him; (The Father) for he (The Father) dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I do believe all those HIMS refer to the Holy Spirit.
It is the COMFORTER that Jesus will send to us....the Holy Spirit.
It's the Holy Spirit that dwells within us...not God Father.
Please check this out.

And Peter confirms this.

Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God (The Father) hath given" "to them" that obey him. (The Father)

Agreed.

And the Scriptures reveal to us that this has been God's way from the very beginning.

OK...I agree except to say that in the beginning the Holy Spirit was WITH man...
now He DWELLS within man.
This is accepted theology.
Do you agree?

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, (That God gives to those who obey Him) and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he (The Father) spake by the mouth of his (The Father's) holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

And again;

Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. (That God gives to those who obey Him) 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

I could keep going but my posts get too long.

In conclusion, we are told by Paul and Jesus to "Repent of our sins" and turn to God in Faithful obedience, "with all our heart, mind and soul", like Paul in Rom. 7: 25, as He and His Son instructs. This is called "Walking in the Spirit" and God is Faithful to bring us to "His" Perfection, even as Jesus also "Yielded Himself" to God in obedience from His Youth, unto death and was also "made perfect", as it is written. And with Jesus' Commandment, for those who would be faithful "doers" of His Saying, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect", we have been shown the narrow path to God's salvation, and are instructed to strive to walk this path.

Therefore, as it is written in the Prophets inspired by the Spirit which was in Christ Jesus,

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

I agree with everything Studyman.
You're writing as if you might have thought I wouldn't agree....
but I do.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ex. 12: 37And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.38And a "mixed multitude" went up also "with them"; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

The offer was the same, as God instructed Moses to say, to the homeborn, and those strangers who would choose to embark on the journey with them. There were Israelites by blood who chose to stay in Egypt, and there were Egyptians by blood who chose to sojourn with Moses.

Spiritually speaking, I was a Stranger, an Egyptian worshipping the gods of the land I lived in. I heard about the God of Abraham, and chose to SEEK Him out, or God chose me to Seek Him out, I cannot say, just as Cornelious and the Centurian did. While it is true I didn't SEE the river turned to Blood, like the Egyptians and Israelites did, nor did I see the Lord's Christ murdered for simply promoting obedience to the God of Abraham, like the Centurian and Cornelious did, but I heard about Him and His Promises, His Power, like Rehab and the Ninevites, and I believed, like they did and I am being diligent to be found of Him without Spot, and Blameless. As it is written;

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

According to Scriptures, the God of the Bible calls men to "Deny Themselves" and "Yield themselves" to Him, of their own free will, and embark on a Spiritual Journey, an Exodus to a promised destination. These Spiritual Parables are written as guidelines and examples of what a man who "Joins himself" to the Lord, will encounter along the journey, along with warnings about the gods/religions of the land we journey through, and their influence on men.

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The practice of different religions competing with each other for contributing members, or as it is called, "Converting" men to one religious sect of this world or another, is a popular religious tradition. I don't believe God's Messengers engaged in such a competition. After all, there is only ONE God, in my understanding. And His Temple is in the mind of men.



I see. This is an interesting perspective. The implication of this religious philosophy seems to be that the God of Abraham was simply defending the right of Israel or the Egyptians to worship the God/god of their choice, as long as they had Laws against murder and theft and promoted kindness one to another.

So basically, what you are saying is that the God of Abraham, with Laws against murder and theft, and the god's of Egypt, who had laws against murder and theft, are the same, and were basically competing against each other for worshippers in Egypt, and the God of Abraham was defending the rights of men to worship whatever God they wanted, without undue pressure from the other.

I'm not sure this is the teaching God intended, given what is written in scriptures. But it makes for a great study topic.



This is a fascinating teaching, Pancho. The implication of this philosophy is that the gods of the land that Abraham's Father worshipped, were just fine as long as they had laws against murder and theft. The God of Noah's call for Abram to leave his past life, had nothing to do with the worship of other gods, or disobedience to the God of Noah's commandments or Judgments. In this religious philosophy, the God of Noah just wanted to start a new Religion.

I will have to think about this one a bit.

I will share my thoughts on the rest of your reply shortly. Interesting discussion for sure.

I believe that the fact that the people of UR were worshipping other gods had little to do with Abram's departure.
It's just a fact that they were.
I believe that God wanted to separate Himself from the other false gods.
He wanted to start a new nation with a new leader so as to reveal Himself as He so wished.

That's all I wanted to add....

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

I believe that the fact that the people of UR were worshipping other gods had little to do with Abram's departure.
It's just a fact that they were.
I believe that God wanted to separate Himself from the other false gods.
He wanted to start a new nation with a new leader so as to reveal Himself as He so wished.

That's all I wanted to add....

And now its time for both jew and gentile to Come to the glorious Lord Believing in Christ JESUS .
One shepard one fold . The day cometh wherein The wrath of GOD shall surely come .
For GOD so loved the world that HE DID SEND THE SON so that all who do BELEIVE in HIM
shall NOT PERISH but have EVERLASTING LIFE .
To all who name the name of CHRIST JESUS let them depart from inquity , let it not once be named as becometh saints .
ITS a war my friend . And all things written were WRITTEN for our learning . So yes , IT is bible time for the sheeps
to feast upon them lovey words every day and be reminded and stirred up by remembrance .
An unholy and out right blasphemous one has come in his own name
to seduce even within christendom many . The falling away is going viral and getting worse by the day and by the hour .
And if we love the peoples , WELL we would have warned the peoples and reminded the peoples
and done all to POINT ONLY TO JESUS the CHRIST as the only , and i do mean only , Means of salvation .
cause booodah or budda aint saving squat nor can any other religoin . NOR can man even save himself .
WITH man it is impossible , BUT NOT WITH GOD . JESUS THE CHRIST IS THE NAME and THE ONLY NAME , THE ONLY HOPE
one has .

 

[Studyman]

Finally, if you had been a Ninevite, you would not have been asked by Jonah to convert to Judaism, and abide by the covenant given through Moses. As a Ninevite you would have known perfectly well that violence was violence, fraud was fraud, and that’s why Jonah’s call to repent would have made sense for you.

If a man promotes and lives by the traditions and philosophies of a different god than the God of Abraham, and influences others to follow suit, this is violence and fraud to others, according to what is written in the Holy scriptures, in my view.

As it is written;

Duet. 32: 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. (These would be the God's of Nineveh, Egypt, Sodom etc )

18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. 19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking "of his sons, and of his daughters".

I don't believe God's instruction in righteousness is "Judaism". But this world's religious system promotes that it is. For instance, when Noah loaded clean and unclean animals in the Ark, HE wasn't "Judaizing". When God sanctified and made Holy His Sabbath, HE wasn't "Judaizing". This world's religious system preaches that HE was. I don't believe the Scriptures support this teaching.

The “proselytes” mentioned here are Israelites who joined their sect. The Pharisees did not embark in a missionary work with other nations. On the contrary, they avoided to pollute themselves with too much contact with Gentiles.
The feeling that Jews should not preach sacred things to Gentiles is represented by the story of Peter and Cornelius.

Again my friend, the preaching that the Jews/Pharisees promoted God's Sacred things to anyone, is a falsehood. The belief that the God of Abraham's "Way of the Lord", is just another religious sect, is demeaning to God, in my view. Peter was shown what Moses and the Prophets told Israel from the very beginning of their journey.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

If Peter had believed Moses and the Prophets, he would not have been promoting for doctrines the Pharisees Commandments of men, concerning Gentiles. Cornelious is the perfect example of the son of a stranger who "joined himself" to the Lord. And God made sure Peter was corrected from the influence of the religious philosophies of this world he was raised in, before he went to Cornelious. I understand this because I am corrected concerning long held religious beliefs I was taught since my youth from time to time, even after 25 years away from this world's religious system. I have even been corrected by your perspective on one issue, if you remember. I am grateful to God for that.

Paul himself never thought that the terms of the covenant God had made through Moses included the Gentiles.

Certainly not as a Pharisee. He taught for doctrines the Commandments of men until God corrected him. Had he believed all that was written in the Law and Prophets, like he did after He came to the knowledge of the truth, he would not have persecuted the church of God regardless of the DNA of the members.

Jesus never reproached the Jews for not having sent missionaries to the Greeks or Arabs, did He?

Matt. 23: 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Rom. 2: 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Jesus led by example and told men to let their obedience (Light) be seen. You can read about His instruction in Matt. 5. God's name was blasphemed among the Greeks and Arabs through the missions of the Jews. Not Joshua though, as the Story of Rehab teaches.

I believe these stories are relevant.

… and not only Jesus, but all prophets from Israel before Him. So, if Jews were disobeying an instruction to bring Moses Law to all mankind, it seems that God hadn’t cared at all.

Again, Moses never made a single Law. But this world's religious system, promote the falsehood that God's Laws are Jewish Law or Moses Law. We are influenced by these worldly religions, just as men were influenced by the corrupt "Jews Religion", and the gods of Egypt, and Nineveh and Sodom. God's Law is available to every man on earth. The Bible is printed in every language on the planet. There isn't a single person who sought out the God of Abraham, that couldn't find Him, in my understanding.

The Pharisees, and modern religions, used parts the Law and Prophets for the purpose of justifying their adopted religion. But the Law and Prophets were inspired by God for a different purpose, in my view, as it is written, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

I have chosen to let God's Word guide me, not selectively use only the parts of His Word that can be wrested to justify philosophies of a religious sect of this world. Not that you do this, but "many" who profess to know God do, as did the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time.

Didn't Jesus advocate that all men are to "Live by" Every Word of God? "To be perfect even as His Father is perfect? And where would a man go to find God's definition of perfect? We should Seek the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, Yes? And Paul and Jesus both said these things are found in the Law and Prophets.

In contrast, the story of the Wise Men from Persia who were guided by God to seek Jesus tell us that Jews believed that God could guide people from other religions in God’s own terms, outside the covenant made through Moses.

Your assumption that the Wise Men were not faithful servants of God, just like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, cannot be supported by scriptures, in my understanding.

I also appreciate to read your points of view, Studyman. Thanksa lot. God bless you.

And I yours Pancho, thanks for sharing and for listening.

You have a great day.

 

[GodsGrace]

If a man promotes and lives by the traditions and philosophies of a different god than the God of Abraham, and influences others to follow suit, this is violence and fraud to others, according to what is written in the Holy scriptures, in my view.

As it is written;

Duet. 32: 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. (These would be the God's of Nineveh, Egypt, Sodom etc )

18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. 19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking "of his sons, and of his daughters".

I don't believe God's instruction in righteousness is "Judaism". But this world's religious system promotes that it is. For instance, when Noah loaded clean and unclean animals in the Ark, HE wasn't "Judaizing". When God sanctified and made Holy His Sabbath, HE wasn't "Judaizing". This world's religious system preaches that HE was. I don't believe the Scriptures support this teaching.



Again my friend, the preaching that the Jews/Pharisees promoted God's Sacred things to anyone, is a falsehood. The belief that the God of Abraham's "Way of the Lord", is just another religious sect, is demeaning to God, in my view. Peter was shown what Moses and the Prophets told Israel from the very beginning of their journey.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

If Peter had believed Moses and the Prophets, he would not have been promoting for doctrines the Pharisees Commandments of men, concerning Gentiles. Cornelious is the perfect example of the son of a stranger who "joined himself" to the Lord. And God made sure Peter was corrected from the influence of the religious philosophies of this world he was raised in, before he went to Cornelious. I understand this because I am corrected concerning long held religious beliefs I was taught since my youth from time to time, even after 25 years away from this world's religious system. I have even been corrected by your perspective on one issue, if you remember. I am grateful to God for that.



Certainly not as a Pharisee. He taught for doctrines the Commandments of men until God corrected him. Had he believed all that was written in the Law and Prophets, like he did after He came to the knowledge of the truth, he would not have persecuted the church of God regardless of the DNA of the members.



Matt. 23: 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Rom. 2: 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Jesus led by example and told men to let their obedience (Light) be seen. You can read about His instruction in Matt. 5. God's name was blasphemed among the Greeks and Arabs through the missions of the Jews. Not Joshua though, as the Story of Rehab teaches.

I believe these stories are relevant.



Again, Moses never made a single Law. But this world's religious system, promote the falsehood that God's Laws are Jewish Law or Moses Law. We are influenced by these worldly religions, just as men were influenced by the corrupt "Jews Religion", and the gods of Egypt, and Nineveh and Sodom. God's Law is available to every man on earth. The Bible is printed in every language on the planet. There isn't a single person who sought out the God of Abraham, that couldn't find Him, in my understanding.

The Pharisees, and modern religions, used parts the Law and Prophets for the purpose of justifying their adopted religion. But the Law and Prophets were inspired by God for a different purpose, in my view, as it is written, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

I have chosen to let God's Word guide me, not selectively use only the parts of His Word that can be wrested to justify philosophies of a religious sect of this world. Not that you do this, but "many" who profess to know God do, as did the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time.

Didn't Jesus advocate that all men are to "Live by" Every Word of God? "To be perfect even as His Father is perfect? And where would a man go to find God's definition of perfect? We should Seek the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, Yes? And Paul and Jesus both said these things are found in the Law and Prophets.



Your assumption that the Wise Men were not faithful servants of God, just like Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, cannot be supported by scriptures, in my understanding.


And I yours Pancho, thanks for sharing and for listening.

You have a great day.

I have an idea for you which MIGHT BE what you and @Pancho Frijoles are discussing.
Not been following along...sorry.

Seems to be about the bible being the word of God...
maybe the ONLY word of God.

Talk of other gods.

I THINK that you and Pancho are speaking past each other..maybe Pancho wil correct me if needed.

I think what he's saying is that YES, the bible is the word of God for CHRISTIANS.
God revealed Himself through Abraham.....OK.

But the middle east is a small area.
Does God exist in any other area of the world?
Romans 1:19----tells us that man has ALWAYS been aware of God.

I'm pretty sure that Pancho is saying that God can be worshipped even by non-Christians
IF
they believe in who we would call God Father.
IOW,,,they have to be worshipping the One and True God....
but no matter what He is called.

God has revealed Himself in many ways and to many cultures.
Let's not put God into a tiny little box and expect Him to stay there.
There is only One God...
if we worship that God...and obey Him...we will be saved.

 

[Studyman]

Great Studyman.
Agreed.


Again...agreed.
Nothing to add.

I do believe all those HIMS refer to the Holy Spirit.
It is the COMFORTER that Jesus will send to us....the Holy Spirit.
It's the Holy Spirit that dwells within us...not God Father.
Please check this out.

In my understand, God the Father is a Spirit, and certainly a Holy Spirit.

Agreed.

OK...I agree except to say that in the beginning the Holy Spirit was WITH man...
now He DWELLS within man.
This is accepted theology.
Do you agree?

If God dwells in/with a man, and God is the Holy Spirit, then Jesus would ask God to send HIS Spirit to dwell with/within us. I'm not sure there is a difference between God, which is a spirit, and the Holy spirit of God, which is a Spirit.

Interesting study though.

I agree with everything Studyman.
You're writing as if you might have thought I wouldn't agree....
but I do.

There are "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who do not agree with scriptures. I'm glad you accept them as truth.

 

[civic]

In my understand, God the Father is a Spirit, and certainly a Holy Spirit.






If God dwells in/with a man, and God is the Holy Spirit, then Jesus would ask God to send HIS Spirit to dwell with/within us. I'm not sure there is a difference between God, which is a spirit, and the Holy spirit of God, which is a Spirit.

Interesting study though.



There are "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who do not agree with scriptures. I'm glad you accept them as truth.

Yet the Father is never called the Holy Spirit.

hmmmmmmmmm

 

[Studyman]

I have an idea for you which MIGHT BE what you and @Pancho Frijoles are discussing.
Not been following along...sorry.

Seems to be about the bible being the word of God...
maybe the ONLY word of God.

Talk of other gods.

I THINK that you and Pancho are speaking past each other..maybe Pancho wil correct me if needed.

I think what he's saying is that YES, the bible is the word of God for CHRISTIANS.
God revealed Himself through Abraham.....OK.

But the middle east is a small area.
Does God exist in any other area of the world?
Romans 1:19----tells us that man has ALWAYS been aware of God.

I'm pretty sure that Pancho is saying that God can be worshipped even by non-Christians
IF
they believe in who we would call God Father.
IOW,,,they have to be worshipping the One and True God....
but no matter what He is called.

God has revealed Himself in many ways and to many cultures.
Let's not put God into a tiny little box and expect Him to stay there.
There is only One God...
if we worship that God...and obey Him...we will be saved.

There have always been gods and religions in this world God placed us in. Many, like the religious promoter in the garden of Eden, quote some of God's Word in order to convince men, as it did Eve, that transgressing God's commandments or judgments is not really that wicked. "For God doth know"!!!

Paul says that the very reason why the penalty is so steep for disobedience to God, is so that people will understand just how "Exceedingly Wicked" it is to reject God's Judgments and Commandments. The Bible promotes a "Way of the Lord" that few will "Yield themselves" to walk in, according to what is written. Example after example of this is given to us in the Scriptures, like 600,000 men leaving Egypt, but only 2 "Yielded themselves" to God. Jesus said to "Strive for the Path" that few enter, the Path HE walked, and that God calls many, but only a few "Harden not their hearts" in the day they hear His Voice, and for their repentance, are chosen. Paul said he "labored that he might be accepted (chosen) by this God.

My brother Pancho has adopted a different philosophy. That as long as a man doesn't steal or murder, and is kind to others, God's Judgments given in the Scriptures that Jesus and the Faithful in the Bible walked in, don't really matter. That God called Abram away from his past life, not because of idolatry or sin, but because God wanted to Create another "Religious Sect", a "Jews Religion". Which also included laws against murder and theft and promoted kindness to others, the same as the gods of the Egyptians, and other religious people of the world. And that God didn't expect people to leave their religions, or the worship of their gods, and "Yield themselves" to HIM in obedience to His Judgments, Statutes and commandments, as long as they were kind to one another.

And perhaps he is right. And it certainly makes human sense. And if this is the case, then God will gather all the worshippers of gods and pagan religions, along with the hundreds of differing religions who "profess to know the God of Abraham", along with the hundreds of religious businesses who call Jesus Lord, Lord, as long as they don't murder., steal, and are kind one to another. I think this is the Bahai's philosophy, if I am understanding it right.

I love Pancho, and his insights have helped me see scriptures in a different light. I intend no offence, or insult, or derogatory words towards him. We have frank, and respectful discussion concerning Scriptures mostly. But I hold the Bible as the Inspired Word of God, and have separated myself from this world's religious system, as much as is possible, for almost 30 years now. By reason of use, I understand why God created His Judgments and Statutes, many of which are rejected by this world's religions today, as they were in Jeremiah and Jesus' Time.

If the religious philosophy my friend Pancho has adopted is right, then I am OK. If the Bible is right, and the Commandments and Judgments of God are necessary to "Endure to the End", I still have Hope of being OK. But those who continue to live by the course of this world, which has laws against stealing and murder, and promote that men should be kind one to another, but reject much of God's definition of Holy, Clean and righteousness, then life in this world is their reward, as Jesus said in Matt. 6.

What have I got to lose by trusting God and His Judgments as defined by the Holy scriptures? A porkchop? Opening day of trout season? A few bucks?

Jesus said to "count the cost", and I find this Yoke Light, compared to the promised Glory.

It does make for a good discussion, and I am grateful for Pancho's perspectives.

 

[Studyman]

Yet the Father is never called the Holy Spirit.

hmmmmmmmmm

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So, let me get this right. In your religion, Jesus is calling God a Spirit, but not a Holy Spirit?

hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[civic]

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So, let me get this right. In your religion, Jesus is calling God a Spirit, but not a Holy Spirit?

hmmmmmmmmmm.

Spirit is not the Holy Spirit. Nice try but another uni failure

 

[GodsGrace]

In my understand, God the Father is a Spirit, and certainly a Holy Spirit.






If God dwells in/with a man, and God is the Holy Spirit, then Jesus would ask God to send HIS Spirit to dwell with/within us. I'm not sure there is a difference between God, which is a spirit, and the Holy spirit of God, which is a Spirit.

I think we get a little mixed up about the Holy Spirit.
God is the Father.....the creator.
Jesus is the Son....the one through whom all things were created IOW, the Word of God...also the Savior.
God Father did not go to the cross...God Son went to the cross.

The Holy Spirit is a separate PERSON from the Father and the Son.

The following might be of interest:

In the New Testament the word spirit and, perhaps, even the expression spirit of God signify at times the soul or man himself, inasmuch as he is under the influence of God and aspires to things above; more frequently, especially in St. Paul, they signify God acting in man; but they are used, besides, to designate not only a working of God in general, but a Divine Person, Who is neither the Father nor the Son, Who is named together with the Father, or the Son, or with Both, without the context allowing them to be identified.

A few instances are given here. We read in John 14:16-17: "And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with, you for ever. The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive"; and in John 15:26: "But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me." St. Peter addresses his first epistle, 1:1-2, "to the strangers dispersed . . . elect, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, unto the sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ".

The Spirit of consolation and of truth is also clearly distinguished in John 16:7, 13-15, from the Son, from Whom He receives all He is to teach the Apostles, and from the Father, who has nothing that the Son also does not possess. Both send Him, but He is not separated from Them, for the Father and the Son come with Him when He descends into our souls (John 14:23).

Many other texts declare quite as clearly that the Holy Ghost is a Person, a Person distinct from the Father and the Son, and yet One God with Them.
source: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

This is a good source for the Trinity since it was developed by this church.

Interesting study though.



There are "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who do not agree with scriptures. I'm glad you accept them as truth.

Of course.
Scripture is truth.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Again my friend, the preaching that the Jews/Pharisees promoted God's Sacred things to anyone, is a falsehood. The belief that the God of Abraham's "Way of the Lord", is just another religious sect, is demeaning to God, in my view. Peter was shown what Moses and the Prophets told Israel from the very beginning of their journey.

Hi, Studyman.

I made a mistake concerning the proselytes of Pharisees.
They were foreigners, and not Israelites.
However, these foreigners lived in Israel. As you can read in the passage of Leviticus you read, foreigners living in Israel were expected to join the religion of Israel. It was a matter of integration to society. However, God did not send prophets abroad to convert them into Judaism, and never reproached the people of Israel for not having embarked in a missionary mission abroad.

When you read the Old Testament, you can also notice that even in the case of friendly countries, Jews made no active effort to convert them to Judaism, and there is no lamentation about the eternal fate of the millions of souls outside of Israel. Prophecies about the punishment of other nations had to do with the violence and arrogance of their leaders (kings, armies) against Israel, but not about their stubbornness in rejecting the covenant made through Moses.

 

[GodsGrace]

There have always been gods and religions in this world God placed us in. Many, like the religious promoter in the garden of Eden, quote some of God's Word in order to convince men, as it did Eve, that transgressing God's commandments or judgments is not really that wicked. "For God doth know"!!!

I don't believe God's judgments are evil...
they're just.

And @Pancho didn't reply or give me a like...so I'm not 100% sure he agrees with my post no. 207.

Paul says that the very reason why the penalty is so steep for disobedience to God, is so that people will understand just how "Exceedingly Wicked" it is to reject God's Judgments and Commandments.

I agree, but I also think it was very wicked of Adam to prefer to serve satan instead of God who made him.
I almost think it was personal,,,if that could be possible with God.
And so, yes, the breaking of the commandment was very grave.

The Bible promotes a "Way of the Lord" that few will "Yield themselves" to walk in, according to what is written. Example after example of this is given to us in the Scriptures, like 600,000 men leaving Egypt, but only 2 "Yielded themselves" to God. Jesus said to "Strive for the Path" that few enter, the Path HE walked, and that God calls many, but only a few "Harden not their hearts" in the day they hear His Voice, and for their repentance, are chosen. Paul said he "labored that he might be accepted (chosen) by this God.

Amen.
Agreed 100%

My brother Pancho has adopted a different philosophy. That as long as a man doesn't steal or murder, and is kind to others, God's Judgments given in the Scriptures that Jesus and the Faithful in the Bible walked in, don't really matter.

I don't think Pancho is saying that they don't really matter.
I wish HE would respond here.
The Baha'i people happen to be very nice people with high moral values.

Maybe he means that not only Christianity teaches this but also other religions, but in different ways.

That God called Abram away from his past life, not because of idolatry or sin, but because God wanted to Create another "Religious Sect", a "Jews Religion". Which also included laws against murder and theft and promoted kindness to others, the same as the gods of the Egyptians, and other religious people of the world.

I agree with this.
Don't you?
Other religions also teach not to kill and steal.
God wanted to get Abram out of UR so God could start a religion teaching that HE is the true God and not the pagan gods.
But not all religions worshipped pagan gods....some worship the one true God.

And that God didn't expect people to leave their religions, or the worship of their gods, and "Yield themselves" to HIM in obedience to His Judgments, Statutes and commandments, as long as they were kind to one another.

This is very complicated.
If a person does not know Jesus...we can say that the above is most probably correct.
IF a person comes to know Jesus...then I think it's a totally different story.

This is the problem as I see it:
Christianity is the only religion that states that its messenger is God.
No other religion believes their messenger is God.
Jesus was resurrected to prove He was God.

And rejecting Jesus, for us, is like rejecting God.
So, you see, it's not as easy as we Christians like to think.

And perhaps he is right. And it certainly makes human sense. And if this is the case, then God will gather all the worshippers of gods and pagan religions, along with the hundreds of differing religions who "profess to know the God of Abraham", along with the hundreds of religious businesses who call Jesus Lord, Lord, as long as they don't murder., steal, and are kind one to another. I think this is the Bahai's philosophy, if I am understanding it right.

The problem here is that some can only know their own religion.
If it is worhsipping GOD and its adherents obey the natural laws of God (like the Noahic Laws) then I do believe that Pancho is correct.

Have you read Romans 1:19-21 (about)? I won't post it. Read it and let me know what you think about it.
Read also Romans 2:14-15

And I'd direct to all those verses that state that God will render to each man as are his works/deed.
John 5:28-29 and many others.

I love Pancho, and his insights have helped me see scriptures in a different light. I intend no offence, or insult, or derogatory words towards him. We have frank, and respectful discussion concerning Scriptures mostly. But I hold the Bible as the Inspired Word of God, and have separated myself from this world's religious system,

And this is correct. You're a Christian and should hold to Christian tenets.
If anything,,,I think Pancho could expand your horizon and maybe get God out of the box many seem to want to keep Him in.

as much as is possible, for almost 30 years now. By reason of use, I understand why God created His Judgments and Statutes, many of which are rejected by this world's religions today, as they were in Jeremiah and Jesus' Time.

Correct. Agreed.
But we are not like those that shrink back...
Hebrews 10:39

If the religious philosophy my friend Pancho has adopted is right, then I am OK. If the Bible is right, and the Commandments and Judgments of God are necessary to "Endure to the End", I still have Hope of being OK. But those who continue to live by the course of this world, which has laws against stealing and murder, and promote that men should be kind one to another, but reject much of God's definition of Holy, Clean and righteousness, then life in this world is their reward, as Jesus said in Matt. 6.

Here's how I understand it Studyman:
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
WORKS WITHOUT FAITH ARE DEAD.

IOW....we need faith first...
and then we also need works (which would be obedience to God as you've been posting).

What have I got to lose by trusting God and His Judgments as defined by the Holy scriptures? A porkchop? Opening day of trout season? A few bucks?

LOL
Your very soul.

Jesus said to "count the cost", and I find this Yoke Light, compared to the promised Glory.

It does make for a good discussion, and I am grateful for Pancho's perspectives.

Agreed.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I don't believe God's judgments are evil...
they're just.

And @Pancho didn't reply or give me a like...so I'm not 100% sure he agrees with my post no. 207.

I agree, but I also think it was very wicked of Adam to prefer to serve satan instead of God who made him.
I almost think it was personal,,,if that could be possible with God.
And so, yes, the breaking of the commandment was very grave.


Amen.
Agreed 100%


I don't think Pancho is saying that they don't really matter.
I wish HE would respond here.
The Baha'i people happen to be very nice people with high moral values.

Maybe he means that not only Christianity teaches this but also other religions, but in different ways.



I agree with this.
Don't you?
Other religions also teach not to kill and steal.
God wanted to get Abram out of UR so God could start a religion teaching that HE is the true God and not the pagan gods.
But not all religions worshipped pagan gods....some worship the one true God.


This is very complicated.
If a person does not know Jesus...we can say that the above is most probably correct.
IF a person comes to know Jesus...then I think it's a totally different story.

This is the problem as I see it:
Christianity is the only religion that states that its messenger is God.
No other religion believes their messenger is God.
Jesus was resurrected to prove He was God.

And rejecting Jesus, for us, is like rejecting God.
So, you see, it's not as easy as we Christians like to think.


The problem here is that some can only know their own religion.
If it is worhsipping GOD and its adherents obey the natural laws of God (like the Noahic Laws) then I do believe that Pancho is correct.

Have you read Romans 1:19-21 (about)? I won't post it. Read it and let me know what you think about it.
Read also Romans 2:14-15

And I'd direct to all those verses that state that God will render to each man as are his works/deed.
John 5:28-29 and many others.

And this is correct. You're a Christian and should hold to Christian tenets.
If anything,,,I think Pancho could expand your horizon and maybe get God out of the box many seem to want to keep Him in.

Correct. Agreed.
But we are not like those that shrink back...
Hebrews 10:39

Here's how I understand it Studyman:
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
WORKS WITHOUT FAITH ARE DEAD.

IOW....we need faith first...
and then we also need works (which would be obedience to God as you've been posting).

LOL
Your very soul.

Agreed.

@I’ve been very busy these days but hope to comment soon on your posts, my sister and brother.

 

[Studyman]

I think we get a little mixed up about the Holy Spirit.
God is the Father.....the creator.
Jesus is the Son....the one through whom all things were created IOW, the Word of God...also the Savior.
God Father did not go to the cross...God Son went to the cross.

The Holy Spirit is a separate PERSON from the Father and the Son.

The following might be of interest:

In the New Testament the word spirit and, perhaps, even the expression spirit of God signify at times the soul or man himself, inasmuch as he is under the influence of God and aspires to things above; more frequently, especially in St. Paul, they signify God acting in man; but they are used, besides, to designate not only a working of God in general, but a Divine Person, Who is neither the Father nor the Son, Who is named together with the Father, or the Son, or with Both, without the context allowing them to be identified.

A few instances are given here. We read in John 14:16-17: "And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with, you for ever. The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive"; and in John 15:26: "But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me." St. Peter addresses his first epistle, 1:1-2, "to the strangers dispersed . . . elect, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, unto the sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ".

The Spirit of consolation and of truth is also clearly distinguished in John 16:7, 13-15, from the Son, from Whom He receives all He is to teach the Apostles, and from the Father, who has nothing that the Son also does not possess. Both send Him, but He is not separated from Them, for the Father and the Son come with Him when He descends into our souls (John 14:23).

Many other texts declare quite as clearly that the Holy Ghost is a Person, a Person distinct from the Father and the Son, and yet One God with Them.
source: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

This is a good source for the Trinity since it was developed by this church.

Of course.
Scripture is truth.

I understand there are a lot of religious websites that people trust for knowledge about God. Most all of the big religious businesses have one now. And the religious tradition of this world I was born into, is to pick one or more religious sects of businesses that exist in the world God placed us in, adopt their philosophies which change depending on which religious sect is adopted, and then contribute financially and verbally to help grow their business or sect. It was no different in Jesus' time with the religious sect of the Pharisees and Sadducees. I don't use or partake of them because I have the Oracles of God in my own home, and I trust God to reveal Himself to me, even in my closet. outside of the influence of this world's religious system, given all the warnings about deception and deceivers coming in Christ's Name, "professing to know God", etc.
Jesus never, in my understanding in Scriptures, said "I will pray to the Holy Spirit", or "I will ask the Holy Spirit for something on your behalf". Or "I will speak to the Holy Spirit, and ask him to dwell in you".

He did say His Father, the One True God, is a Spirit, and of course, a Holy Spirit, and Asks God to give "Of His Spirit", which is Holy, to those who Love Him.

John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he (God) shall give you another Comforter, that he (God) may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; (Spirit of God) whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him (God) not, neither knoweth him (God): but ye know him; for he (God) dwelleth with you, and shall be "in you".

John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you "from the Father", even the Spirit of truth, (Spirit of God) which proceedeth "from the Father", he shall testify of me:

1 John 4: 13 "Hereby know we" that we dwell in him, "and he (God) in us", "because" he hath given us "of his Spirit".

1 Cor. 3: 16 Know ye not that "ye are the temple of God", and that the "Spirit of God" (Holy Spirit) dwelleth "in you"? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Now I get that men have adopted their respective religious sect and their religious philosophies, and that so-called trinitarians and unitarians argue amongst themselves as they compete for contributing members to grow their religion. And the Catholic philosophy of trinitarianism is a popular philosophy adopted by "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

But for me, I understand that God, The Holy Spirit, Gives of Himself to those who Love Him, just as HE gave of Himself to Jesus "that ye may know, and believe, that the Father "is in me", and I in him. (John 10:38)

John 17: 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

It seems foolish to say or imply, given what is actually written, that "God's Spirit" isn't in me, it's the separate, individual person called the "Holy Spirt". What would I say? "No thanks God", I don't want "YOU" to dwell in me, like you did Jesus, I want this other guy, the "Holy Ghost" to dwell in me."


I am mocked on this forum, because I believe what is written over the popular religious philosophies of this world God placed me in. Nevertheless, it is good to have these discussions among men seeking God's Truth in the Love of God.

 

[Studyman]

I don't believe God's judgments are evil...
they're just.

??????

"There have always been gods and religions in this world God placed us in. Many, like the religious promoter in the garden of Eden, quote some of God's Word in order to convince men, as it did Eve, that transgressing God's commandments or judgments is not really that wicked. "For God doth know"!!!

Transgression of God's Judgments is what I spoke to here, as you can see. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was speaking about God's Judgments themselves.

And @Pancho didn't reply or give me a like...so I'm not 100% sure he agrees with my post no. 207.

I agree, but I also think it was very wicked of Adam to prefer to serve satan instead of God who made him.
I almost think it was personal,,,if that could be possible with God.
And so, yes, the breaking of the commandment was very grave.

Yes, transgressing God's instruction in righteousness is exceedingly wicked. I'm sure Adam learned this from his chastisement.

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand there are a lot of religious websites that people trust for knowledge about God.

Stop.
I don't trust websites for my information.
I was saved over40 years ago....there were no websites.

If I link something it's because it agrees with MY UNDERSTANDING of the subject at hand.

I'm making a point of this because there are TOO MANY teachings on the web...
and too many of them are not right....
and I fear that the new generations will be all mixed up unless they find a good church to attend and learn.

Most all of the big religious businesses have one now. And the religious tradition of this world I was born into, is to pick one or more religious sects of businesses that exist in the world God placed us in, adopt their philosophies which change depending on which religious sect is adopted, and then contribute financially and verbally to help grow their business or sect.

Athough this is true, it's also rather negative, don't you think?
Some churches have good pastors and so they will tend to grow.
As they grow they make more money.
Hopefully some of it is returned back into the community or other countries that can use the help.
And it the pastor takes in, let's say, 10% and he ends up bringing in a lot of money,,,I have no problem if
he becomes wealthy.

It was no different in Jesus' time with the religious sect of the Pharisees and Sadducees. I don't use or partake of them because I have the Oracles of God in my own home, and I trust God to reveal Himself to me, even in my closet. outside of the influence of this world's religious system, given all the warnings about deception and deceivers coming in Christ's Name, "professing to know God", etc.
Jesus never, in my understanding in Scriptures, said "I will pray to the Holy Spirit", or "I will ask the Holy Spirit for something on your behalf". Or "I will speak to the Holy Spirit, and ask him to dwell in you".

Why would Jesus pray to the Holy Spirit?
He prayed to God Father just like He taught us to do.

He did say His Father, the One True God, is a Spirit, and of course, a Holy Spirit, and Asks God to give "Of His Spirit", which is Holy, to those who Love Him.

Of course God is spirit.
Does someone say that He is NOT?

John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he (God) shall give you another Comforter, that he (God) may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; (Spirit of God) whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him (God) not, neither knoweth him (God): but ye know him; for he (God) dwelleth with you, and shall be "in you".

OK Studyman....I went through this already and the GOD'S you have in parenthesis up there are not God Father but are
the Holy Spirit.
I'm not going to debate this.
It's plainly obvious.

It says that Jesus will pray to THE FATHER
and the Father
WILL GIVE ANOTHER COMFORTER....
Another Comforter means SOMEONE ELSE...
It does not mean God Father but some other person...
in this case The Holy Spirit.

John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you "from the Father", even the Spirit of truth, (Spirit of God) which proceedeth "from the Father", he shall testify of me:

1 John 4: 13 "Hereby know we" that we dwell in him, "and he (God) in us", "because" he hath given us "of his Spirit".

1 Cor. 3: 16 Know ye not that "ye are the temple of God", and that the "Spirit of God" (Holy Spirit) dwelleth "in you"? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Now I get that men have adopted their respective religious sect and their religious philosophies, and that so-called trinitarians and unitarians argue amongst themselves as they compete for contributing members to grow their religion. And the Catholic philosophy of trinitarianism is a popular philosophy adopted by "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

But for me, I understand that God, The Holy Spirit, Gives of Himself to those who Love Him, just as HE gave of Himself to Jesus "that ye may know, and believe, that the Father "is in me", and I in him. (John 10:38)

John 17: 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

It seems foolish to say or imply, given what is actually written, that "God's Spirit" isn't in me, it's the separate, individual person called the "Holy Spirt". What would I say? "No thanks God", I don't want "YOU" to dwell in me, like you did Jesus, I want this other guy, the "Holy Ghost" to dwell in me."


I am mocked on this forum, because I believe what is written over the popular religious philosophies of this world God placed me in. Nevertheless, it is good to have these discussions among men seeking God's Truth in the Love of God.

Ok. I see.
You understand that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God Father.
You don't have a proper understanding of the Trinity,
but
Guess what?
It doesn't matter!
God will not hold you responsible or accountable for not understanding a doctrine.
Doctrines do not save us.
Believing in God, in Jesus and OBEYING is what is going to get us saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

??????

"There have always been gods and religions in this world God placed us in. Many, like the religious promoter in the garden of Eden, quote some of God's Word in order to convince men, as it did Eve, that transgressing God's commandments or judgments is not really that wicked. "For God doth know"!!!

Transgression of God's Judgments is what I spoke to here, as you can see. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was speaking about God's Judgments themselves.



Yes, transgressing God's instruction in righteousness is exceedingly wicked. I'm sure Adam learned this from his chastisement.

HOW does a person transgress God's instruction in RIGHTEOUSNESS???

What does righteousness mean to you?