The context of the Eucharist from Passover Seder : sacrifice, real presence, priest, unblemished lamb

[GodsGrace]

So Christ's one sacrifice was not enough?

Hebrews 10:12 (LEB) — 12 But this one, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

The Mass is considered a sacrifice because it re-presents the one Sacrifice of Christ offered on the cross each time the Eucharist is celebrated.

So Christ is called down from heaven to be represented and re-presented in bread and wine

I don't really care to have this silly conversation Tom.
Protestants misunderstand Catholicism
and V V

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church....the official teaching,
it speaks of the re-presenting you mention above.



1364

In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ's Passover, and it is made present the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present.185 "As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which 'Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed' is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."186
185.

Cf. Heb 7:25-27.
186.

LG 3; cf. 1 Cor 5:7.
1846
2100
(all)




1365

Because it is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. The sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: "This is my body which is given for you" and "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood."187 In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."188
187.

Lk 22:19-20.
188.

Mt 26:28.
613
(all)




1366

The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper "on the night when he was betrayed," [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.189
189.

Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24, 27.
1545
(all)




1367

The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner... this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."190
190.

Council of Trent (1562) Doctrina de ss. Missae sacrificio, c. 2: DS 1743; cf. Heb 9:14,27.

 

[GodsGrace]

So Christ's one sacrifice was not enough?

Hebrews 10:12 (LEB) — 12 But this one, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

The Mass is considered a sacrifice because it re-presents the one Sacrifice of Christ offered on the cross each time the Eucharist is celebrated.

So Christ is called down from heaven to be represented and re-presented in bread and wine

Actually, Jesus is not called down to be re-presented.
The host becomes the body and blood of Jesus.
No representation.
This is called transubstantiation.

 

[GodsGrace]

So Christ's one sacrifice was not enough?

The CC believe the one sacrifice was enough.

It's YOU who doesn't know or understand what the CC teaches and
makes up your very own rules.

You can't even accept what the teaching of the CC is...

No matter.
As I always say...
you can believe what you will.

BTW,,, every Catholic I know believes Protestants are Calvinists.
Interesting.

Hebrews 10:12 (LEB) — 12 But this one, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

The Mass is considered a sacrifice because it re-presents the one Sacrifice of Christ offered on the cross each time the Eucharist is celebrated.

So Christ is called down from heaven to be represented and re-presented in bread and wine

 

[synergy]

I don't really care to have this silly conversation Tom.
Protestants misunderstand Catholicism
and V V

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church....the official teaching,
it speaks of the re-presenting you mention above.



1364

In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ's Passover, and it is made present the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present.185 "As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which 'Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed' is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."186
185.

Cf. Heb 7:25-27.
186.

LG 3; cf. 1 Cor 5:7.
1846
2100
(all)




1365

Because it is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. The sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: "This is my body which is given for you" and "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood."187 In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."188
187.

Lk 22:19-20.
188.

Mt 26:28.
613
(all)




1366

The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper "on the night when he was betrayed," [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.189
189.

Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24, 27.
1545
(all)




1367

The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner... this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."190
190.

Council of Trent (1562) Doctrina de ss. Missae sacrificio, c. 2: DS 1743; cf. Heb 9:14,27.

The Cross is so Divine that it is independent of time. That's why we can commemorate the Cross multiple times as the Eucharist even though the Cross happened only once according to human time.

(Rev 13:8) All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

BTW, I'm not sold on the "transubstantiation" point of view, but that's a topic for another day.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Cross is so Divine that it is independent of time. That's why we can commemorate the Cross multiple times as the Eucharist even though the Cross happened only once according to human time.

(Rev 13:8) All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

BTW, I'm not sold on the "transubstantiation" point of view, but that's a topic for another day.

Of course. Jesus died one time. Catholics are not dumb.
All Christians believe that the cross has no time...It's the cross of Jesus that saves EVERYONE...
past, present and future.
God does not live in time..He is forever and always.


As to transubstantiation:
I used to think John 6 was just a metaphor.
Now I believe it's more.
I'm not quite at transubstantiation yet...but it might be on the way.

When the crowd of disciples said THIS IS A DIFFICULT SAYING....
and they left...Jesus did not stop them.
He had just finished saying that they had to CHEW on His body...
I believe it's John 6:53 --- different from eat.

Anyway, yes, a topic for another day.

 

[TomL]

The CC believe the one sacrifice was enough.

It's YOU who doesn't know or understand what the CC teaches and
makes up your very own rules.

You can't even accept what the teaching of the CC is...

No matter.
As I always say...
you can believe what you will.

BTW,,, every Catholic I know believes Protestants are Calvinists.
Interesting.

Well, every Protestant is not a Calvinist.

Question if the one sacrifice was enough why must Catholics represent it endlessly?

And why must Christ be called down from heaven repeatedly?

 

[TomL]

Actually, Jesus is not called down to be re-presented.
The host becomes the body and blood of Jesus.
No representation.
This is called transubstantiation.

Re- presentation. The sacrifice is stated to be re-presented.

And Christ is called down from heaven to be in the elements

 

[TomL]

I don't really care to have this silly conversation Tom.
Protestants misunderstand Catholicism
and V V

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church....the official teaching,
it speaks of the re-presenting you mention above.



1364

In the New Testament, the memorial takes on new meaning. When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ's Passover, and it is made present the sacrifice Christ offered once for all on the cross remains ever present.185 "As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which 'Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed' is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."186
185.

Cf. Heb 7:25-27.
186.

LG 3; cf. 1 Cor 5:7.
1846
2100
(all)




1365

Because it is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. The sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: "This is my body which is given for you" and "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood."187 In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."188
187.

Lk 22:19-20.
188.

Mt 26:28.
613
(all)




1366

The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper "on the night when he was betrayed," [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.189
189.

Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24, 27.
1545
(all)




1367

The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner... this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."190
190.

Council of Trent (1562) Doctrina de ss. Missae sacrificio, c. 2: DS 1743; cf. Heb 9:14,27.

As I stated

The sacrifice is re-presented over and over


And Christ is called down from heaven to be in the elements.

 

[synergy]

Well, every Protestant is not a Calvinist.

Question if the one sacrifice was enough why must Catholics represent it endlessly?

And why must Christ be called down from heaven repeatedly?

Jesus instructed his Disciples to perform the Lord's Supper/Eucharist in remembrance of Him. He didn't set any time span or frequency limit that I know of.

 

[TomL]

Jesus instructed his Disciples to perform the Lord's Supper/Eucharist in remembrance of Him. He didn't set any time span or frequency limit that I know of.

Yes, as a rememberance but not a calling of him down from heaven so there would be a real presence of him in the separated elements

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, as a rememberance but not a calling of him down from heaven so there would be a real presence of him in the separated elements

Guess you don't understand Catholicism well Tom.
They do NOT believe in the real presence.
This would be Lutherans, if I remember correctly.

Catholics believe in transubstantiation.
This means that the host is consecrated....
and it then turns into the literal body and blood of Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, every Protestant is not a Calvinist.

And every doctrine of the CC is not as you believe it to be.

Question if the one sacrifice was enough why must Catholics represent it endlessly?

What does represent mean to you?
Do you have a birthday party of a family member every year?
Why?
Are you re-presenting their birth?

Why do we have Christmas every year?
Is Jesus born again every year as a baby?
Why do we re-present Christmas?

And why must Christ be called down from heaven repeatedly?

Is Jesus not with us spiritually?
Is He bound to stay in heaven?

What does it mean when we pray "Lord, be with me this day"....
when we face a challenging situation.

Are we calling Him down from heaven?
Do you think Jesus dislikes being called by us?

 

[GodsGrace]

Re- presentation. The sacrifice is stated to be re-presented.

And Christ is called down from heaven to be in the elements

Explained.

 

[GodsGrace]

As I stated

The sacrifice is re-presented over and over


And Christ is called down from heaven to be in the elements.

Calling on God is never wrong Tom.
JESUS told the Apostles to do THIS in remembrance of Him.
He broke the bread at the house of one of the two disciples in Emmaus
and they immediately recognized Him.

To do WHAT in remembrance of Him?

I used to attend a church that served fruit juice instead of wine because they believed drinking wine was sinful.
They taught that Jesus did not drink wine.

I think we can get a little carried away with add teachings.
I think we should do what Jesus commanded us to do and I think we should do it reverently.

In some Protestant churches I've visited....the communion was done only once a month or even less...
and it did not seem to be worshipping God to me, but something else not as holy...not as set apart to worship God.

I had to learn reformed theology really well before posting about it.
Why don't you do the same for Catholic teachings?

You are making statements that DO NOT REPRESENT what the CC teaches.
There's enough difference between us without having to add to it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus instructed his Disciples to perform the Lord's Supper/Eucharist in remembrance of Him. He didn't set any time span or frequency limit that I know of.

In fact,,,catholicism teaches that grace and forgiveness of sins is received at communion...
and it believes that it is actual spiritual nourishment....just as Jesus stated in John 6.

 

[TomL]

Calling on God is never wrong Tom.
JESUS told the Apostles to do THIS in remembrance of Him.
He broke the bread at the house of one of the two disciples in Emmaus
and they immediately recognized Him.

To do WHAT in remembrance of Him?

I used to attend a church that served fruit juice instead of wine because they believed drinking wine was sinful.
They taught that Jesus did not drink wine.

I think we can get a little carried away with add teachings.
I think we should do what Jesus commanded us to do and I think we should do it reverently.

In some Protestant churches I've visited....the communion was done only once a month or even less...
and it did not seem to be worshipping God to me, but something else not as holy...not as set apart to worship God.

I had to learn reformed theology really well before posting about it.
Why don't you do the same for Catholic teachings?

You are making statements that DO NOT REPRESENT what the CC teaches.
There's enough difference between us without having to add to it.

Really?

Which statement does the CC not agree with?

The sacrifice is re-presented over and over


And Christ is called down from heaven to be in the elements.

 

[TomL]

Explained.

Any doubt as to

The sacrifice is re-presented over and over?


And Christ is called down from heaven to be in the elements?

 

[GodsGrace]

Really?

Which statement does the CC not agree with?

The sacrifice is re-presented over and over


And Christ is called down from heaven to be in the elements.

OK. Wait.
What do you MEAN by the sacrifice is re-presented over and over??

 

[TomL]

OK. Wait.
What do you MEAN by the sacrifice is re-presented over and over??

Catholic theology

The mass is a sacrifice, a non bloody sacrifice that transpires over and over

• The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: [Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper “on the night when he was betrayed,” [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented. (CCC 1366)

• The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner…” (CCC 1367)

 

[GodsGrace]

Catholic theology

The mass is a sacrifice, a non bloody sacrifice that transpires over and over

• The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: [Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper “on the night when he was betrayed,” [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented. (CCC 1366)

• The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner…” (CCC 1367)

So are you saying christ is recruited at every Mass?