The context of the Eucharist from Passover Seder : sacrifice, real presence, priest, unblemished lamb

[TomL]

There is nothing funny about your false God of intellect worship at variance to Christian teaching,

I notice you avoided mentioning the scripture I quoted John 6:52 “ how can this man give us his flesh to gnaw”
And what Jesus, John, his disciples, the early church says it means.

All except you and fellow intellect worshippers and know it alls, like calvin in fact,

Because only toms false intellect matters.
STOP MISLEADING OTHERS
You are entitled to be a heretic, your choice, don’t drag others down with you.

Um that was the Jews misunderstanding and you ignored Christ;s reply

John 6:63 (KJV 1900) — 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Just as you addressed, none of my previous appeals to scripture

You cannot rebut the fact Christ is to remain in the heavens unto the restoration of all things according to scripture

at his Father's side until all enemies are made his footstool

Add to that Christ offered but one sacrifice which requires no repetition

Hebrews 7:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

 

[mikepec]

Um that was the Jews misunderstanding and you ignored Christ;s reply

John 6:63 (KJV 1900) — 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Just as you addressed, none of my previous appeals to scripture

You cannot rebut the fact Christ is to remain in the heavens unto the restoration of all things according to scripture

at his Father's side until all enemies are made his footstool

Add to that Christ offered but one sacrifice which requires no repetition

Hebrews 7:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

The actual true church speaks of you heretics

The succession charged by Jesus to hand on ( meaning of traditins) the true word

Take Bishop Ignatius , student of polycarp and John the apostle
( I assume your arrogance does not extend to believing John got meabing of john 6 wrong?
Or does it. Calvin was a no hoperlike you)

Ignatius says of YOU. In letter to Smyrbeans,

That “heretics” like you are “condemned”
Because they “ they confess not the Eucharist to be the body of Jesus”

So Stop worshipping your intellect and listen to John and those like ignatius sent to teach you,
Jesus gave you his flesh to gnaw. He said so, in Capernaum, John wrote it down and taught you what it means.

 

[TomL]

The actual true church speaks of you heretics

The succession charged by Jesus to hand on ( meaning of traditins) the true word

Take Bishop Ignatius , student of polycarp and John the apostle
( I assume your arrogance does not extend to believing John got meabing of john 6 wrong?
Or does it. Calvin was a no hoperlike you)

Ignatius says of YOU. In letter to Smyrbeans,

That “heretics” like you are “condemned”
Because they “ they confess not the Eucharist to be the body of Jesus”

So Stop worshipping your intellect and listen to John and those like ignatius sent to teach you,
Jesus gave you his flesh to gnaw. He said so, in Capernaum, John wrote it down and taught you what it means.

No response to the scriptures quoted and alluded to

Um that was the Jews misunderstanding and you ignored Christ;s reply

John 6:63 (KJV 1900) — 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Just as you addressed, none of my previous appeals to scripture

You cannot rebut the fact Christ is to remain in the heavens unto the restoration of all things according to scripture

at his Father's side until all enemies are made his footstool

Add to that Christ offered but one sacrifice which requires no repetition

Hebrews 7:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

insults and name calling ignored

 

[mikepec]

No response to the scriptures quoted and alluded to



insults and name calling ignored

So in the one corner we have
Jesus taught John. John wrote John 6 and taught the succession, polycarp, ignatius etc
We know what they meant from writings,
And all the succession and councils givien power to bind a loose meabing.
The pillar of truth,
All of them say real flesh.

In the other corner we have onky Tom. His intellect.
His personal interpretation which clearly violates what John said John 6 meant , and all the succession
Tom knew and spoke to none of them . Was taught by none of them. Ignatius was!
He reckons his opinion matters more.

you don’t have to be a betting man to sort out which group got that right!
Is it lonely on your ivory tower?

I did not insult you, I told you the verdict John and his disciples gave on peolle like you.
Heretic Condemned , proven by early church writings. Look it up. Ignatius to Smyrbeans. In the first generations after Christ.
Long before the church decided a New Testament you choose to misunderstand.

Stop misleading others. You are wrong.

 

[TomL]

So in the one corner we have
Jesus taught John. John wrote John 6 and taught the succession, polycarp, ignatius etc
We know what they meant from writings,
And all the succession and councils givien power to bind a loose meabing.
The pillar of truth,
All of them say real flesh.

In the other corner we have onky Tom. His intellect.
His personal interpretation which clearly violates what John said John 6 meant , and all the succession
Tom knew and spoke to none of them . Was taught by none of them. Ignatius was!
He reckons his opinion matters more.

you don’t have to be a betting man to sort out which group got that right!
Is it lonely on your ivory tower?

I did not insult you, I told you the verdict John and his disciples gave on peolle like you.
Heretic Condemned , proven by early church writings. Look it up. Ignatius to Smyrbeans. In the first generations after Christ.
Long before the church decided a New Testament you choose to misunderstand.

Stop misleading others. You are wrong.

Lets see

I have scripture not my intellect, which states

1)Christ offered up one sacrifice which need not be repeated daily

ascribing continued sacrifice is a denial of that one sacrifice

and shows

2) Christs sacrifice is a bloody sacrifice and that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin


The Catholic Eucharist is stated to be offered up as an unbloody sacrifice therefore it cannot be a representation of Christs one sacrifice

3) I can read where we are to live by every word that proceeeds from the mouth of God

Ignatius and other men who do not appear in the bible I do not read about

They do not have the same import

You may place your faith in the hands of men mine is in the word of God

 

[Behold]

An endless series of validated Eucharistic miracles show that it really is the flesh of Jesus.

Hummm, so, if a miracle happens, that means its the Literal Jesus?

So in that Case...

The "spring" in Lourdes, that St Bernadette located, and is now there for all to see, is the Literal Jesus, because thousands of people have been healed near this water, or by drinking it.

Well then.... ok.. if that is how Catholics see it, then it must be True.

Right?

 

[TomL]

Hummm, so, if a miracle happens, that means its the Literal Jesus?

So in that Case...

The "spring" in Lourdes, that St Bernadette located, and is now there for all to see, is the Literal Jesus, because thousands of people have been healed near this water, or by drinking it.

Well then.... ok.. if that is how Catholics see it, then it must be True.

Right?

Lets see regarding Peter, who Roman Catholics pronounce as the first pope

Peter walked and talked with Jesus, and he managed to get things wrong and had to be rebuked by Jesus and Paul

 

[mikepec]

Hummm, so, if a miracle happens, that means its the Literal Jesus?

So in that Case...

The "spring" in Lourdes, that St Bernadette located, and is now there for all to see, is the Literal Jesus, because thousands of people have been healed near this water, or by drinking it.

Well then.... ok.. if that is how Catholics see it, then it must be True.

Right?

Leaving your straw man aside about lourdes,

You mean different groups of pathologists, forensic scientists , and cardiloiogists on four continents, all assert human flesh, cardiac tissue , traumatized and alive at the point of sampling, so intertwined with bread that it cannot be fraud.

But that’s what Jesus said it was in John 6. And he so disgusted the audience by telling them to “ gnaw him” that even most of his disciples left.

Its also why the romans thought they were cannibals

Instead of withdraw the remark or explain He just asks Peter if he will go to?
John handed that meaning to his disciples . They handed down because they were sent to teach.

Only the heretic reformationists changed the doctrine with no authority.

 

[Quintus5]

The sacrifice was made ONCE. The rest is just symbolism.
You don't need to sacrifice Jesus hundreds of thousands of times every day.
Heretic reformationists? Thank God!

27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself

 

[TomL]

The sacrifice was made ONCE. The rest is just symbolism.
You don't need to sacrifice Jesus hundreds of thousands of times every day.
Heretic reformationists? Thank God!

27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself

Yes

One should not reject scripture to support a theology taught by man

 

[mikepec]

The sacrifice was made ONCE. The rest is just symbolism.
You don't need to sacrifice Jesus hundreds of thousands of times every day.
Heretic reformationists? Thank God!

27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself

But we don’t sacrifice him multiple times

That is your nisubsrsranding of the mass AS IT WAS TAUGHT by Jesus through apostles and handed down by the pillar of truth and succession.


The mass Joins onto the once and everlasting sacrifice .
You reduce Jesus to your limited concept of time , not his.

Only in earth time was the sacrifice at a point in time at golgotha, scripture says it
In heaven time “ the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world” rev 13:8, continues to this day.


We don’t make that sacrifice again, we OFFER that sacrifice to God in atonement as the Passover did.

The false protestabt memes do not work against true catholic teaching

Don’t you ever read what those SENT to preach teach you, and the “ pillar of truth” hands down?
Stop relying on your own understanding - the Bible tells you not to do so.
The true church has answers to all your false assumptions. Study what we actually believe.

Jesus gives you himself, to eat as the eternal Passover of the new covenant and tells you must do so if you want life!
But becayse it IS him you must do it worthily, you offer it to God , not repeat it .


Don’t you EVER study the TRUE mass handed down?

 

[TomL]

But we don’t sacrifice him multiple times

That is your nisubsrsranding of the mass AS IT WAS TAUGHT by Jesus through apostles and handed down by the pillar of truth and succession.


The mass Joins onto the once and everlasting sacrifice .
You reduce Jesus to your limited concept of time , not his.

Only in earth time was the sacrifice at a point in time at golgotha, scripture says it
In heaven time “ the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world” rev 13:8, continues to this day.


We don’t make that sacrifice again, we OFFER that sacrifice to God in atonement as the Passover did.

The false protestabt memes do not work against true catholic teaching

Don’t you ever read what those SENT to preach teach you, and the “ pillar of truth” hands down?
Stop relying on your own understanding - the Bible tells you not to do so.
The true church has answers to all your false assumptions. Study what we actually believe.

Jesus gives you himself, to eat as the eternal Passover of the new covenant and tells you must do so if you want life!
But becayse it IS him you must do it worthily, you offer it , not perform it .

But you do claim it is a sacrifice. A representing of the one sacrifice Christ offered.

His sacrifice was a bloody one. The Eucharist is stated to be an unbloody one so what is being represented?

and after denying you sacrifice Christ multiple times you argue

"Only in earth time was the sacrifice at a point in time at golgotha, scripture says it
In heaven time “ the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world” rev 13:8, continues to this day."

So Christ has been suffering and sacrificed from creation and is still being so today

It is never finished as we read in scripture, so that view does not come from scripture but from the teachings of men.

 

[mikepec]

But you do claim it is a sacrifice. A representing of the one sacrifice Christ offered.

His sacrifice was a bloody one. The Eucharist is stated to be an unbloody one so what is being represented?

and after denying you sacrifice Christ multiple times you argue

"Only in earth time was the sacrifice at a point in time at golgotha, scripture says it
In heaven time “ the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world” rev 13:8, continues to this day."

So Christ has been suffering and sacrificed from creation and is still being so today

It is never finished as we read in scripture, so that view does not come from scripture but from the teachings of men.

It’s sad you put your limited intelligence over what Jesus clearly handed down to apostles and the succession

You should listen to those Jesus sent

Jesus clearly said unless you gnaw his body you have no life in you . Which sadly you don’t .

There is still time for you to repent
Don’t waste it.

 

[TomL]

It’s sad you put your limited intelligence over what Jesus clearly handed down to apostles and the succession

You should listen to those Jesus sent

Jesus clearly said unless you gnaw his body you have no life in you . Which sadly you don’t .

There is still time for you to repent
Don’t waste it.

It's sad you reject the word of God to tout the word of man

Jesus clearly noted he was speaking figuratively

John 6:61–63 (KJV 1900) — 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Maybe it is you who should repent of minimizing the efficacy of Christ's one sacrifice.

 

[mikepec]

It's sad you reject the word of God to tout the word of man

Jesus clearly noted he was speaking figuratively

John 6:61–63 (KJV 1900) — 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Maybe it is you who should repent of minimizing the efficacy of Christ's one sacrifice.

I feel sorry for such as you.
Rejecting what was clearly passed on since the beginning by the appointed church .

All such as you who disagree with the clear doctrine in favour of your own misinterpretation of scripture should consider.
That the meaning of scripture is so evidence that the reformers did not agree with each other on the Eucharist.
Lutherans do not agree with Luther, calbvinists disagree with Calvin and both disagree with Zwingli.
They do not even agree what is essential doctrine in trying to agree what is essential.
You can’t even agree what scripture is!
Those having nothing other than their own fallible intellect , your man made tradition schism and schism again.

This is offensive to Jesus who said his church would be one. You are therefore not part of His church.

Jesus gave the power to bind and loose to an appointed succession who are custodians of truth sent to preach which is why we know what is true, and why the church ( not scripture) is called “ the pillar of truth.” - the church physical, the household of God, To which you must take disputes.

Our Eucharist has changed little in 2000 years.

But I feel most sorry for you because you miss Jesus freely giving himself in the Eucharist.

 

[TomL]

I feel sorry for such as you.
Rejecting what was clearly passed on since the beginning by the appointed church .

All such as you who disagree with the clear doctrine in favour of your own misinterpretation of scripture should consider.
That the meaning of scripture is so evidence that the reformers did not agree with each other on the Eucharist.
Lutherans do not agree with Luther, calbvinists disagree with Calvin and both disagree with Zwingli.
They do not even agree what is essential doctrine in trying to agree what is essential.
You can’t even agree what scripture is!
Those having nothing other than their own fallible intellect , your man made tradition schism and schism again.

This is offensive to Jesus who said his church would be one. You are therefore not part of His church.

Jesus gave the power to bind and loose to an appointed succession who are custodians of truth sent to preach which is why we know what is true, and why the church ( not scripture) is called “ the pillar of truth.” - the church physical, the household of God, To which you must take disputes.

Our Eucharist has changed little in 2000 years.

But I feel most sorry for you because you miss Jesus freely giving himself in the Eucharist.

Yet again you ignore scripture for the sake of your tradition

Feel sorry for yourself

I have scripture - the word of God

You have the opinion of man

 

[mikepec]

It's sad you reject the word of God to tout the word of man

Jesus clearly noted he was speaking figuratively

John 6:61–63 (KJV 1900) — 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Maybe it is you who should repent of minimizing the efficacy of Christ's one sacrifice.

In your opinion when you made yourself pope.
Over a sect of just 1. You

Tell me , since you all disagree with each other on scripture, why should I believe you rarger than Luther? Or Calvin? Or Zwingli? Or Lutherans who all disageee with luther ,
So depending on which bit of Lutheranism you mean - part of Missouri synod even does a kind of Eucharistic adoration.

I’m guessing you don’t agree with any. Like calvin you think all the others are stupid,

In fact you only have one thing in common with all the above.
The arrogance to believe only you are right , when everyone else is wrong!!

But it’s worse than that because we know that John got his doctrine from Jesus who gave his apostles power to bind and loose and preach and hand true doctrine down.
We know exactly what John said it meant which is the literal .
Repeated. Repeated . It IS my body
Because his disciples handed it down in writings.
It is what the pillar of truth - Jesus church - said it means

Jesus even tells you that it is sacramental, the spirit is there. He also tells you need it for Life! Which is why you must gnaw his body
Nowhere else in the Bible does spirit or life mean “ symbolic or reoresentatuve”
So you made that up, to avoid the blindingly obvious,

So you disagree with both John and Jesus.as well
Jesus got it wrong says Tom!

Tell me, in your 1 man religion.
What else did Jesus and John get wrong.?? ( In your opinion as self appointed arbiter of truth!)

Oh wait. Scriptire tells you to take disputes to the church, the pillar of truth, the household of God.
And they tell you it means what I said it means!

Nowhere does it say take disputes to Tom and his one man heresy.
I listen to the sources scripture tells me to , not Tom who doesn’t even get a mention.

The Bible saus the gospel will be taught to the end of time, not with a 2000 year gap till someone called Tom discovers everyone else is wrong! And only he is right….

 

[TomL]

In your opinion when you made yourself pope.
Over a sect of just 1. You

Tell me , since you all disagree with each other on scripture, why should I believe you rarger than Luther? Or Calvin? Or Zwingli? Or Lutherans who all disageee with luther ,
So depending on which bit of Lutheranism you mean - part of Missouri synod even does a kind of Eucharistic adoration.

I’m guessing you don’t agree with any. Like calvin you think all the others are stupid,

In fact you only have one thing in common with all the above.
The arrogance to believe only you are right , when everyone else is wrong!!

But it’s worse than that because we know that John got his doctrine from Jesus who gave his apostles power to bind and loose and preach and hand true doctrine down.
We know exactly what John said it meant which is the literal .
Repeated. Repeated . It IS my body
Because his disciples handed it down in writings.
It is what the pillar of truth - Jesus church - said it means

Jesus even tells you that it is sacramental, the spirit is there. He also tells you need it for Life! Which is why you must gnaw his body
Nowhere else in the Bible does spirit or life mean “ symbolic or reoresentatuve”
So you made that up, to avoid the blindingly obvious,

So you disagree with both John and Jesus.as well
Jesus got it wrong says Tom!

Tell me, in your 1 man religion.
What else did Jesus and John get wrong.?? ( In your opinion as self appointed arbiter of truth!)

Oh wait. Scriptire tells you to take disputes to the church, the pillar of truth, the household of God.
And they tell you it means what I said it means!

Nowhere does it say take disputes to Tom and his one man heresy.
I listen to the sources scripture tells me to , not Tom who doesn’t even get a mention.

The Bible saus the gospel will be taught to the end of time, not with a 2000 year gap till someone called Tom discovers everyone else is wrong! And only he is right….

Man nothing but man

Why do you not address the scripture?

From the scripture we see

Christ offered one sacrifice

It is efficient and need not be repeated

It was a bloody sacrifice

Now your theology must deny all three points

PS your comments are a total distortion there are many who will deny your theology not just myself

 

[civic]

The actual true church speaks of you heretics

The succession charged by Jesus to hand on ( meaning of traditins) the true word

Take Bishop Ignatius , student of polycarp and John the apostle
( I assume your arrogance does not extend to believing John got meabing of john 6 wrong?
Or does it. Calvin was a no hoperlike you)

Ignatius says of YOU. In letter to Smyrbeans,

That “heretics” like you are “condemned”
Because they “ they confess not the Eucharist to be the body of Jesus”

So Stop worshipping your intellect and listen to John and those like ignatius sent to teach you,
Jesus gave you his flesh to gnaw. He said so, in Capernaum, John wrote it down and taught you what it means.

Ignatius and polycarp were not inspired writers of Scripture

next fallacy

 

[mikepec]

Ignatius and polycarp were not inspired writers of Scripture

next fallacy

It doesn’t matter.

They were bishops in succession so appointed to have hand down the truth. They were students of John who record what John taught and what ever believed for the next Millenium. . Or take Justin martyr said “ real flesh”.
Even the romans thought they were cannibals because of teaching the dictrine,
It is also what councils taught

So answer me this.
Why should anyone listen to you, when Protestabts reading scripture is a provable fail,

Because None of the reformers agree with each other on the meaning of scriptire ,
Luther. Zwingli. Calvin Their descendants calvinists do not agree with Calvin .lutherabnd do not agree with luther.
Indeec the multiple synods , elcb , Missouri etc of Lutherans do not agree with each other.
Some Missouri Lutherans even believe in adoration of sorts .

So how can ANY of you claim to know what scripture means, when none of you agree with each other?
You not even agree on what is essential dictrine in the pretence you agree on essentials!

The famous rc sprout, even gradually changed his mind on what was essential!!!
He respect the early fathers and as a result, Many of his seminary graduates became catholic

So why should anyone listen to you or Tom, who were never taught by apostle John, and none of you agree with each other?