Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?

[DavidTree]

Catholicism error to fit false council teaching=Nothing was made--Prov 8:22 proves its error. Besides him is correct.

Catholic error is with worship of Mary and statues and the pope/priests.

jw error is NWT

Holy Spirit Truth Says: You and i and all of mankind were created by the LORD Jesus Christ = Colossians 1:15-18

JESUS is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

I believe in the incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ. I believe this is the teaching of the word of God, it protects Jesus' Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1. More on this later, I must go.

Here's a couple of outlines my a friend of mine for over forty plus years.

The Sonship of Jesus Christ (2 sermons)

letgodbetrue.com

Sonship of Jesus Christ

letgodbetrue.com

The Son of GOD

letgodbetrue.com

Even better. Modalism is even easier to debunk than Trinitarianism. If God allegedy manifests in three different ways then the concept of an incarnation is slapstick comedy. God's manifestations aren't God according to Scripture.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

That's your choice, and maybe a wise one on your part. This is the reason:

As I said, my position which is basically in the middle of your view which flat out reject Jesus' Deity as the one true God, and those Christians who believe in the Eternal Sonship doctrine, which laid the foundation for your false teaching, by saying that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, which makes him "inferior" to God in his Divinity, which all know he is in his humanity, but not in his Divinity.

So, maybe we should set up a debate concerning the ~ Eternal Sonship vs. the Incarnate Sonship ~ where there are true Christians on both side of this debate, whereas, those who flat our reject Christ being equal to God cannot be called by that sacred name.... Christian.

The Incarnate Sonship believers are the only folks that can expose your false teaching for what it is. So, good choice for you, and @Peterlag to stop ~@Keiw1 is not to deep in the scripture, so she most likely will keep putting up her one liner, thinking she's doing God a service ~and @Studyman is in a league of his own, but is much closer to your side than the truth for sure.

His request for information was fuflilled and was "done" i.e., it was finished. As far as this debate being done, no, now I got you exactly where I want you and you won't be let off the hook until I say so. Get comfortable, it's going to be awhile.

So now that I have you on record as a confirmed modalist, you are now switching modes and saying that Jesus is not a manifestion of God but is rather God incarnate? You people are just about as easy to pin down as nailing jelly to a wall. Just when we think we got you in a corner, you slip through the cracks and reform as something else. First Jesus is an incarantion, next he's a manifestation of God, now he's back to being an incarnate of your god again. What is it exactly you believe? Do you just change religions depending on which one helps you?

 

[Runningman]

Sure HE is

The Angel told Mary that the child inside her is "the Holy One" = Luke chapter 1

All the angels in Heaven know JESUS is the Holy One as they fall down and worship Him = Revelation
All the Saints know JESUS is the Holy One as they also worship Him = Revelation
All the demons know JESUS is the Holy One and are terrified of Him = Mark 1:24

Now there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit. And he cried out, saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us?
I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

Not the "the Holy One of Israel" though. Jesus is never called that specific title in the Bible.

The word "saint" in the Bible means holy, set apart, etc. Saints are holy ones, but none of them are God. Jesus is one of the saints according to Daniel 7. Therefore Jesus isn't the definitive Holy One of Israel.

 

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

As far as this debate being done, no, now I got you exactly where I want you and you won't be let off the hook until I say so. Get comfortable, it's going to be awhile.

You are not debating a novice, your words put no fear in my heart, and why should they, with your false doctrine of denying the Deity of Jesus Christ? Your words sound much like Sennacherib king of Assyria (Read Isaiah 36) and you know his end! You may just eat your very boastful words. We shall see.

So now that I have you on record as a confirmed modalist,

I told you already I'm not a modalist, I said clearly:

He said in this very scripture he dwells with those who have a contrite spirit; and in the NT, the mystery of Christ is that HE dwells in in us, which make God and Christ ONE. Yet Christ is a person, God is a Spirit, so there you have more than ONE, in any way you look at at it, yet one in essence, etc. The three in one is revealed in the NT based on their work respectively in the redemption of God's elect. Nevertheless, if one truly ponders this very much, how can you truly separate God who is a Spirit from the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Only by the work respectively under the NT.

you are now switching modes and saying that Jesus is not a manifestion of God but is rather God incarnate?

Listen carefully ~God was incarnate (made flesh) in Jesus of Narareth, by God being his Father. Now you can take my words and twist, and spin them any way you want to, and you will, but that is my confession according to God's testimony. I have never said anything other than what is written in those twelve or so words.

Just when we think we got you in a corner, you slip through the cracks and reform as something else.

You, nor your delusional friends have never come close of putting me into a corner with no way out, not even close, wishful thinking on your part, or better yet, your words are proving your are living under a very strong delusion.

First Jesus is an incarantion, next he's a manifestation of God, now he's back to being an incarnate of your god again.

Never said Jesus was incarnated by being God in the flesh, never. God was incarnated in the person of Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. Jesus had a beginning as the Son of God. You are confusing me with those who believe in the eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ. Learn the difference. Just because you are confused, I'll not let you make me out as the confuse one. Again, I'm not an novice ~ folks from your camp are not even that, since they are void of any truth concerning the Godhead.

What is it exactly you believe?

Of course you know what I believe, and have made it very plain and it took you a while to even see what I was saying. So, what does not say about your understanding? Not much.

Do you just change religions depending on which one helps you?

Why do you not ask folks like @Jim since he as known me the longest, if I change over the years on this subject ~ The Sonship of Jesus Christ. @FreeInChrist has known about the same, though we have not exchange post very much on this subject as much as Jim and I. Once I got fully converted on this truth over forty plus years ago, about ten years after I came to Christ, then I have never went back to the Eternal Sonship position, where many of God's children still believe in, yet we all believe Jesus was God manifest in the flesh which allows one to still fellowship and love each other. We believe that Jesus was a complex person, fully man, and fully God by the very fact God was his Father in the manner in which he was begotten.

.

 

[DavidTree]

Not the "the Holy One of Israel" though. Jesus is never called that specific title in the Bible.

The word "saint" in the Bible means holy, set apart, etc. Saints are holy ones, but none of them are God. Jesus is one of the saints according to Daniel 7. Therefore Jesus isn't the definitive Holy One of Israel.

Good Morning @Runningman

YES, the Holy Spirit, who cannot lie, declare JESUS as "the Holy One of Israel".

JESUS, Himself declared this to be Truth.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

You are not debating a novice, your words put no fear in my heart, and why should they, with your false doctrine of denying the Deity of Jesus Christ? Your words sound much like Sennacherib king of Assyria (Read Isaiah 36) and you know his end! You may just eat your very boastful words. We shall see.

I told you already I'm not a modalist, I said clearly:


Listen carefully ~God was incarnate (made flesh) in Jesus of Narareth, by God being his Father. Now you can take my words and twist, and spin them any way you want to, and you will, but that is my confession according to God's testimony. I have never said anything other than what is written in those twelve or so words.

You, nor your delusional friends have never come close of putting me into a corner with no way out, not even close, wishful thinking on your part, or better yet, your words are proving your are living under a very strong delusion.

Never said Jesus was incarnated by being God in the flesh, never. God was incarnated in the person of Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. Jesus had a beginning as the Son of God. You are confusing me with those who believe in the eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ. Learn the difference. Just because you are confused, I'll not let you make me out as the confuse one. Again, I'm not an novice ~ folks from your camp are not even that, since they are void of any truth concerning the Godhead.

Of course you know what I believe, and have made it very plain and it took you a while to even see what I was saying. So, what does not say about your understanding? Not much.

Why do you not ask folks like @Jim since he as known me the longest, if I change over the years on this subject ~ The Sonship of Jesus Christ. @FreeInChrist has known about the same, though we have not exchange post very much on this subject as much as Jim and I. Once I got fully converted on this truth over forty plus years ago, about ten years after I came to Christ, then I have never went back to the Eternal Sonship position, where many of God's children still believe in, yet we all believe Jesus was God manifest in the flesh which allows one to still fellowship and love each other. We believe that Jesus was a complex person, fully man, and fully God by the very fact God was his Father in the manner in which he was begotten.

.

Quit your jabber jawing and put up some scripture then. Let's make this super easy for you. Show even one verse that says Jesus was incarnated. This is what this debate is about. If you cannot do this, then you must cede you have lost the debate.

 

[Runningman]

Good Morning @Runningman

YES, the Holy Spirit, who cannot lie, declare JESUS as "the Holy One of Israel".

JESUS, Himself declared this to be Truth.

Not according to Scripture. Jesus is never called the "the Holy One of Israel" in the Bible. Show the verse where it says that please.

 

[DavidTree]

Not according to Scripture. Jesus is never called the "the Holy One of Israel" in the Bible. Show the verse where it says that please.

The Angel who appeared to Mary said HE is the Holy One

The OT Prophets call Him the Holy One

The Demons know that JESUS is the Holy One and are terrified of Him

JESUS declared that HE is the Holy One of Israel to the Jews.

All of Heaven declare Him as the Holy One = Revelation

@Runningman, now it is for your eternal glory to worship with all the Saints and Angels declaring JESUS as your Holy Savior!!!

 

[Runningman]

The Angel who appeared to Mary said HE is the Holy One

The OT Prophets call Him the Holy One

The Demons know that JESUS is the Holy One and are terrified of Him

JESUS declared that HE is the Holy One of Israel to the Jews.

All of Heaven declare Him as the Holy One = Revelation

@Runningman, now it is for your eternal glory to worship with all the Saints and Angels declaring JESUS as your Holy Savior!!!

Oh stop it. There are a couple dozen titles Jesus and God don't have in common. "The Holy one of Israel" is a title Jesus is never called. Yes, Jesus is God's chosen holy one, but not The Holy One. That's because Jesus is a saint. As I already said, read Daniel 7 that proves Jesus is one of many holy ones.

 

[Runningman]

Oh stop it yourself. Jesus in called the Holy One in Mark1:24, Luke 4:34 and is by Peter in John 6:69 and in Acts 3:14. This title has roots in the OT. where "the Holy One of Israel" is a name for God Himself.

Next fallacy

Oh goodness. Another one of you making things up. No surprise! Where does the Bible say Jesus is the "the Holy One of Israel???" If you guys can't just agree with what the Bible says, we'll need to drag it out until you guys can't prove any of your claims. Better to just agree with the truth instead of turning it into a public spectacle. Good luck finding where Jesus is ever called ""the Holy One of Israel."

 

[civic]

Oh goodness. Another one of you making things up. No surprise! Where does the Bible say Jesus is the "the Holy One of Israel???" If you guys can't just agree with what the Bible says, we'll need to drag it out until you guys can't prove any of your claims. Better to just agree with the truth instead of turning it into a public spectacle. Good luck finding where Jesus is ever called ""the Holy One of Israel."

The Holy One is the Holy One of Israel.

Is the Holy God is the Holy God of Israel ?

Next fallacy

 

[Runningman]

The Holy One is the Holy One of Israel.

Is the Holy God the Holy God of Israel ?

Next fallacy

Not according to Scripture. Jesus as God's holy one isn't the same person as God who is the Holy One of Israel. God never died, went to the grave, and required resurrection. You're mixing up titles. And why are you replying here? Is this still a closed debate?

Acts 2
27because You will not abandon my soul to Hades,
nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

 

[civic]

Not according to Scripture. Jesus as God's holy one isn't the same person as God who is the Holy One of Israel. God never died, went to the grave, and required resurrection. You're mixing up titles. And why are you replying here? Is this still a closed debate?

Acts 2
27because You will not abandon my soul to Hades,
nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

Conflating again I never said same person that’s your fallacy. The Holy One, the Holy one of Israel is the same God.

You are conflating person with being.

 

[DavidTree]

Oh stop it. There are a couple dozen titles Jesus and God don't have in common. "The Holy one of Israel" is a title Jesus is never called. Yes, Jesus is God's chosen holy one, but not The Holy One. That's because Jesus is a saint. As I already said, read Daniel 7 that proves Jesus is one of many holy ones.

Question: Is the 'Holy One' of the OT the One who watched over Israel, guiding and gathering Her unto Himself???

 

[Runningman]

Question: Is the 'Holy One' of the OT the One who watched over Israel, guiding and gathering Her unto Himself???

I can prove you have a double standard.

Are the holy ones of God the same being as God?

Daniel 7
18But the holy ones of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever, yes, forever and ever.’

Is the holy one of God the same being as God?

Acts 2
27because you will not abandon me in Hades
or allow your holy one to see decay.

 

[Runningman]

Conflating again I never said same person that’s your fallacy. The Holy One, the Holy one of Israel is the same God.

You are conflating person with being.

So anyone who is holy in Israel are either the holy one of Israel or the holy ones of Israel?

Psalm 16
3For the holy ones who [are] in the land, And the honourable, all my delight [is] in them.

 

[DavidTree]

I can prove you have a double standard.

Are the holy ones of God the same being as God?

Daniel 7
18But the holy ones of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever, yes, forever and ever.’

Is the holy one of God the same being as God?

Acts 2
27because you will not abandon me in Hades
or allow your holy one to see decay.

i will gladly respond to your post here but i need you to answer the question.

Question: Is the 'Holy One' of the OT the One who watched over Israel, guiding and gathering Her unto Himself???

YES or NO

 

[Runningman]

i will gladly respond to your post here but i need you to answer the question.

Question: Is the 'Holy One' of the OT the One who watched over Israel, guiding and gathering Her unto Himself???

YES or NO

I can answer that, but let me ask for clarifcaiton. Which Holy One are you talking about? Are you talking about the Holy Ones in Daniel 7 or Psalm 16? Or God? Be specific.

 

[DavidTree]

I can answer that, but let me ask for clarifcaiton. Which Holy One are you talking about? Are you talking about the Holy Ones in Daniel 7 or Psalm 16? Or God? Be specific.

The Holy One from Isaiah 45:11

Thus says the Lord,
The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: