Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

You believe Jesus is the one Lord.

In his Deity, yes, he's the God of Genesis 1:1, the Eternal God.

It says Jesus is the one Lord and you believe it.

No, Jesus is the Son Of God. Jesus in his Deity is God, but God is NOT Jesus of Narareth. God is a Spirit that lives/inhabited eternity! Always has, always will, and this can never change, no, not ever. Jesus incarnate has made known to us the I AM THAT I AM, not by being like him, but by being the "EXPRESS" image of who God is. The Only God angels and man will ever see.

It says Jesus is the one Lord and you believe it.

Who is "it"?............ You added: "you believe it."

I just told you what I believe and it is just as the scriptures teach us.

You demonstrate you understand what the Bible says about that.

What I believe is written above. You can read my confession, others can read it ~ I made it as simple as I know how to do. You can never trick, or catch, or trap me, not saying exactly what the scriptures teach concerning who Jesus Christ is. My confession is he same as Peter:

Matthew 16:16​

“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

This is the Rock upon which Christ is building his church!

Matthew 16:18​

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What is this "rock"?

Matthew 16:17​

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

The "rock" is the divine revelation given unto Peter by God for him to KNOW whom Christ is. So, unless one receives this divine revelation of whom Christ is, then what proof does one have they are part of Christ's true church? None. And unless God open's one's heart to see and understand Christ's deity of being the God of Genesis 1:1, then that person will never see the truth of Christ Deity.

Now, who is the One God?

There Is Only One God​

1st Corinthians 8:1-5~"Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Islam says Allah is the only God, but Allah is the moon god of the Arabians. Their god is at the top of every mosque ~ a crescent moon. Their Kaaba stone in Mecca is a meteorite, so they worship nothing, just as Paul wrote – the moon and a meteorite!

The Hindus are more honest ~ they have millions or billions of gods – total confusion by imaginations gone to seed. Buddhists are not sure if Buddha was a god or not. Animists think your chair might be a god. Ancestor worship stoops even lower.

The God of the Bible is Jehovah. He revealed Himself more fully to Moses as I AM THAT I AM. No other god has a name like that! He is eternally and infinitely independent of all other beings and creatures. He alone is the supreme Being.

He looked for other gods, but He could not find any. He wanted to humiliate them by His superior wisdom and power. If you want to read about the LORD God Jehovah boasting, then read Isaiah chapters 40-49.

The greatest proof of God’s existence and His power to perform what he has promised and that He alone can declare the end from the beginning. The gods of other religions have no such power.

The God of the Bible loves to make fun of other gods and those that worship them (Psalm 115:1-8; Isaiah 44:9-20). God's people should enjoy making fun them as well, like Elijah (1st Kings 18:21-29). If anyone like dominating wins, Jehovah over other gods is dominating!

The Trinity does not change the fact there is only one God. There are not three Gods. There is only one God, but He exists as three, only according to the work of redemption for his people. (Deuteronomy 6:8; 1st John 5:7). There is only One Spirit, but seven manifestations (Revelation 3:1; 4:5; 5:6)

God and Jesus are different. Jesus is not another God. Jesus is a Man (1st Timothy 2:15). Jesus is the fullness of God in a body (Colossians 2:9). Jesus is God made flesh to die for His people (John 1:14; Philippians 2: 5-11). Jesus is subordinate to God (1st Corinthians 15:28) as far as his humanity goes.

 

[Peterlag]

It's a mess...

A huge great big mess with billions of Chriatians learning nothing from their churches. They walk out of those buildings every Sunday not knowing who God is. Not knowing who the Christ is. And have no clue what the spirit is or how it works. It's a mess.

 

[Red Baker]

It's a mess...

A huge great big mess with billions of Chriatians learning nothing from their churches. They walk out of those buildings every Sunday not knowing who God is. Not knowing who the Christ is. And have no clue what the spirit is or how it works. It's a mess.

View attachment 2231

This is not debating ~ but mocking God's truth by distorting truth. When you cannot defeat a person presentation of a biblical truth, this is what those who are given over to corrupt God's truth resort to. It is the best they have to offer.

@Administrator

 

[Peterlag]

This is not debating ~ but mocking God's truth by distorting truth. When you cannot defeat a person presentation of a biblical truth, this is what those who are given over to corrupt God's truth resort to. It is the best they have to offer.

@Administrator

I stopped debating when you did not tell me why God would come to the earth as a man and then said you already told me.

 

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

I will forgive you if reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but I highly doubt that is the problem here. It's most likely a willful act of self-deception.

Not sure anyone is given over to an willful act of self-deception, willingly ignorant? yes.

2 Peter 3:5​

“For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:”

Much like those who reject the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those folks in religion who reject Jesus Christ's Deity, chose not to know, thus are willingly ignorant of this truth. Christians are forbidden by the Holy Ghost to bid them God's speed.

You really need John 17:3 to either go away or mean something it doesn't already say. Jesus is praying to the Father in John 17:1-3, identifying Him as the only true God. Jesus is identifying himself as the one the only true God sent. I know, you don't believe it's a check mate, but, for the record, the Father being called the only true God rules out other potential candidates for being God.

John 17:3​

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

I consider John seventeen holy ground when I read this prayer of the Lord Jesus Christ, before God I lie not.

I have already addressed this with Peter, but will again do so briefly, no problem.

I know the Unitarians urge this text, against the true and proper deity of our Lord Jesus, and his equality with the Father, but without success; since the Father is called the only true God, in opposition to the many false gods of the Heathens, but not to the exclusion of the Son; for Christ is also styled the one Lord, and only Lord God, but not to the exclusion of the Father; yea the true God and eternal life; was he not, he would never, as here, join himself with the only true God; and besides, eternal life is made to depend as much upon the knowledge of him, as of the Father. The reason of this different mode of expression, is owing to Christ's humanity, who is said to be sent by the only true God, about the business of man's salvation. Nor is it of any moment what the Jew objects, that Jesus here confesses, that the true God is only one God; nor does he call himself God, only the Messiah sent by God; and that the Apostle Paul also asserts the unity of God.

1st Timothy 1:17​

“Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.”

Christ and his Father, the only true God, are one; and that he is the one true God with his Father, he tacitly suggests here by joining himself with him; and what the Apostle Paul says of the one and only wise God, may as well be understood of Christ, the Son of God, as of the Father.

Is Jesus visible?
Is God visible?

He was...God is invisible and will forever be so, except in the person of Jesus Christ whom, when we see him at his coming, then shall be brought to pass this verse:

Matthew 5:8​

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

But, only in the person of Jesus Christ.

Jesus and God have a hierarchy. While Jesus is the one who God made Lord over the church (Acts 2:36, Eph. 1:22) the Father is the one Lord over heaven and earth. (Matt 11:25, Acts 17:24,25)

Only according to Jesus' humanity. Yet that being said, all power has been given us Christ by his Father as far as his humanity goes. You said: "The Father is the one Lord over heaven and earth. (Matt 11:25, Acts 17:24,25)"

Matthew 28:18​

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”

Your fortress of faith has a few holes in!

 

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

I stopped debating when you did not tell me why God would come to the earth as a man and then said you already told me.

I did tell you, you just refused to accept what I said. I said it twice, not just once. That's a cop out. You stop since you cannot address my post to you.. If you stop, then you should get out.

Time for bed.

 

[Red Baker]

@Keiw1

Yes why won't you believe fact--One God to all= the Father= not the Father, son and holy spirit. You all seem to need English lessons.

I do believe the scriptures not what the false cult of the Jehovah Witnesses teach.

The God of the Bible is Jehovah. He revealed Himself more fully to Moses as I AM THAT I AM. No other god has a name like that! He is eternally and infinitely independent of all other beings and creatures. He alone is the supreme Being.

God and Jesus are different. Jesus is not another God. Jesus is a Man (1st Timothy 2:15). Jesus is the fullness of God "in a body" (Colossians 2:9). Jesus is God made flesh to die for His people (John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-11). Jesus is subordinate to God (1st Corinthians 15:28) as far as his humanity goes.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

In his Deity, yes, he's the God of Genesis 1:1, the Eternal God.

No, Jesus is the Son Of God. Jesus in his Deity is God, but God is NOT Jesus of Narareth. God is a Spirit that lives/inhabited eternity! Always has, always will, and this can never change, no, not ever. Jesus incarnate has made known to us the I AM THAT I AM, not by being like him, but by being the "EXPRESS" image of who God is. The Only God angels and man will ever see.

Who is "it"?............ You added: "you believe it."

I just told you what I believe and it is just as the scriptures teach us.

What I believe is written above. You can read my confession, others can read it ~ I made it as simple as I know how to do. You can never trick, or catch, or trap me, not saying exactly what the scriptures teach concerning who Jesus Christ is. My confession is he same as Peter:

Matthew 16:16​

“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

This is the Rock upon which Christ is building his church!

Matthew 16:18​

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What is this "rock"?

Matthew 16:17​

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

The "rock" is the divine revelation given unto Peter by God for him to KNOW whom Christ is. So, unless one receives this divine revelation of whom Christ is, then what proof does one have they are part of Christ's true church? None. And unless God open's one's heart to see and understand Christ's deity of being the God of Genesis 1:1, then that person will never see the truth of Christ Deity.

There Is Only One God​

Islam says Allah is the only God, but Allah is the moon god of the Arabians. Their god is at the top of every mosque ~ a crescent moon. Their Kaaba stone in Mecca is a meteorite, so they worship nothing, just as Paul wrote – the moon and a meteorite!

The Hindus are more honest ~ they have millions or billions of gods – total confusion by imaginations gone to seed. Buddhists are not sure if Buddha was a god or not. Animists think your chair might be a god. Ancestor worship stoops even lower.

The God of the Bible is Jehovah. He revealed Himself more fully to Moses as I AM THAT I AM. No other god has a name like that! He is eternally and infinitely independent of all other beings and creatures. He alone is the supreme Being.

He looked for other gods, but He could not find any. He wanted to humiliate them by His superior wisdom and power. If you want to read about the LORD God Jehovah boasting, then read Isaiah chapters 40-49.

The greatest proof of God’s existence and His power to perform what he has promised and that He alone can declare the end from the beginning. The gods of other religions have no such power.

The God of the Bible loves to make fun of other gods and those that worship them (Psalm 115:1-8; Isaiah 44:9-20). God's people should enjoy making fun them as well, like Elijah (1st Kings 18:21-29). If anyone like dominating wins, Jehovah over other gods is dominating!

The Trinity does not change the fact there is only one God. There are not three Gods. There is only one God, but He exists as three, only according to the work of redemption for his people. (Deuteronomy 6:8; 1st John 5:7). There is only One Spirit, but seven manifestations (Revelation 3:1; 4:5; 5:6)

God and Jesus are different. Jesus is not another God. Jesus is a Man (1st Timothy 2:15). Jesus is the fullness of God in a body (Colossians 2:9). Jesus is God made flesh to die for His people (John 1:14; Philippians 2: 5-11). Jesus is subordinate to God (1st Corinthians 15:28) as far as his humanity goes.

You are tying yourself in knots. So, if I understand you correctly, contrary to the Bible saying that the One God is the Father, you don't actually believe that? That what I have learned from everything you just said.

Your error is you are trying to null and void what the Bible says in mulitple places about the one and only God being the Father.

There's a lot to untangle. Let's see if we can take it one step at a time.

Is Mary the mother of God or a human lord?

Luke 1
43And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 

[Runningman]

I believe that God is ONE Lord God, manifesting himself as three "ONLY" according to the work of redemption. I went into this a few pages. look for it, if you cannot find it, then I will.

Be back later...

My apologies, I thought you were a Trinitarian. Perhaps you are, in a sense, but your statement is not orthodox. More specifically, are you a modalist? The way you said this, you are saying God is external to the "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" (F, S, HS) which are simply manifestations of God, rather than God Himself. In your reasoning, the F, S, HS become a bit like sockpuppets who, if God is removed from the formula, they cease being manifestations of God.

Please state explicitly what the label is for your beliefs. We need to know because it makes it easier to know how to talk to you. I am a Biblical Unitarian.

 

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

There's a lot to untangle. Let's see if we can take it one step at a time.

Sir, there's not one thing to untangle, the problem you will have with me is this: I'm not your average person who holds to the eternal Sonship doctrine ~ I reject that doctrine as heresy. That doctrine in essence will also deny Jesus Christ Deity. That being said, I believe many who holds to that position are children of God, just in error. we hold to the incarnate Sonship, meaning, God did not have a Son, until Jesus was conceived and born around two thousand years ago. We teach in a biblical trinity "only" according to the redemption of God's elect.

My apologies, I thought you were a Trinitarian. Perhaps you are, in a sense, but your statement is not orthodox.

You finally picked up on this, even though I have said in many times in different ways.

Is Mary the mother of God or a human lord?

God does not have a mother!

Can true Divinity be deprived or propagated? The very thought of this in a positive way is blasphemy against the God of the holy scriptures. What is real Divinity of the Most High God? The following attributes have ever been conceived as essential to it: Self-existence, Infinity, Independence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Immutability, eternal both ways, and Infinite in every way possible that is imaginable to the human mind.

So, your question as you well know, is easy to answer, which I did. Mary gave birth to the Son of God, not to God. Nevertheless, by the very fact that Jesus was conceived by the power of God, he is the express image of God. The Word, which was God joined Himself to the tabernacle of Jesus of Nazareth and lived in this world for around 33 plus years. John 1:14, etc.

I'm coming back after short trip and I will finish answering you.

I will land in between you and those who hold to the eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

We need to know because it makes it easier to know how to talk to you. I am a Biblical Unitarian.

I believe in the incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ. I believe this is the teaching of the word of God, it protects Jesus' Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1. More on this later, I must go.

Here's a couple of outlines my a friend of mine for over forty plus years.

The Sonship of Jesus Christ (2 sermons)

letgodbetrue.com

Sonship of Jesus Christ

letgodbetrue.com

The Son of GOD

letgodbetrue.com

 

[Peterlag]

@Peterlag

I did tell you, you just refused to accept what I said. I said it twice, not just once. That's a cop out. You stop since you cannot address my post to you.. If you stop, then you should get out.

Time for bed.

There's no cop out. I told you on every statement you made that it was not about God. All of your verses were referring to Jesus.

 

[DavidTree]

No rush. I have a life outside of this forum. I will reply as time allows. Sometimes I might hit a stretch where I reply a lot. Sometimes I might not reply most of the day.

Per your request = we have "gotten to the bottom" with TRUTH

JESUS is the Creator of Creation = John chapter 1
JESUS is the Firstborn man from the Grave unto Glorification = Gospel
JESUS is the Firstfruits of mankind, from the Grave, who Entered Heaven unto the FATHER = Acts/1 Corinthians/Revelation

@Kiew1 says: John chapter 1==Things were created-THROUGH( 1:3) Jesus. In the English language that means another did the creating THROUGH Jesus.

AMEN
and
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Can you SEE that you and i do not exist without JESUS???

You, @Keiw1 , were created by the Word that was God = LORD JESUS CHRIST

 

[Runningman]

Per your request = we have "gotten to the bottom" with TRUTH

JESUS is the Creator of Creation = John chapter 1
JESUS is the Firstborn man from the Grave unto Glorification = Gospel
JESUS is the Firstfruits of mankind, from the Grave, who Entered Heaven unto the FATHER = Acts/1 Corinthians/Revelation


AMEN
and
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Can you SEE that you and i do not exist without JESUS???

You, @Keiw1 , were created by the Word that was God = LORD JESUS CHRIST

You're going to need to put up some actual Scripture. Nothing in John 1 says Jesus is the Creator, but was rather created in John 1:14. "The word became flesh." Jesus is flesh, the word is not flesh, therefore Jesus is not the word.

If the Word is the creator, and all things were made through him, then Jesus was also made because flesh is made of matter.

You have just provided a powerful argument against the deity of Jesus and/or the incarnation of God.

 

[DavidTree]

You're going to need to put up some actual Scripture. Nothing in John 1 says Jesus is the Creator, but was rather created in John 1:14. "The word became flesh." Jesus is flesh, the word is not flesh, therefore Jesus is not the word.

If the Word is the creator, and all things were made through him, then Jesus was also made because flesh is made of matter.

You have just provided a powerful argument against the deity of Jesus and/or the incarnation of God.

Are you reading scripture backwards???

 

[Runningman]

Are you reading scripture backwards???

You said all things were "made" (through the Word) right? Ok, after that the "Word became flesh." Your premise is that the Word is the Creator of the physical universe, Jesus is made of phyiscal matter, therefore "the Word became flesh" is a creation, not an incarnation. They didn't believe in incarnations in Judaism or early Christianity, by the way.

So Jesus was created. He isn't God incarnate. He's a human being, which is why that's how everyone spoke of him. That's it.

 

[DavidTree]

You said all things were "made" (through the Word) right? Ok, after that the "Word became flesh." Your premise is that the Word is the Creator of the physical universe, Jesus is made of phyiscal matter, therefore "the Word became flesh" is a creation, not an incarnation. They didn't believe in incarnations in Judaism or early Christianity, by the way.

So Jesus was created. He isn't God incarnate. He's a human being, which is why that's how everyone spoke of him. That's it.

The 'Word that was God" created all things.
Therefore, when the Word became flesh, no new creation was made other then the physical flesh body inside Mary.

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”

But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.
He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.
And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren.
For with God nothing will be impossible.”

 

[Runningman]

The 'Word that was God" created all things.
Therefore, when the Word became flesh, no new creation was made other then the physical flesh body inside Mary.

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”

But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.
He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.
And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren.
For with God nothing will be impossible.”

I know the story of Jesus' creation already. So Jesus is the name of a human, right?

 

[DavidTree]

I know the story of Jesus' creation already. So Jesus is the name of a human, right?

Jesus is the name given to the Word that was God, who became flesh = Immanuel = God with us

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is the name given to the Word that was God, who became flesh = Immanuel = God with us

No no. You just said the Word is the creator and that the "physical flesh" was created. Okay, Matthew 1:21 says "She will give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.”

Mary gave birth to a human son who was given the name Jesus. Jesus is the name of a created human. Therefore Jesus is not God incarnate.