Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?
- Thread starter Administrator
- Start date
Mortal man is sinful. Someone sinful cannot atone for sin, cannot sacrifice for sin, cannot forgive sin itself.
Jesus is not sinful. Jesus did live sinless. Jesus fulfilled all righteous requirements. Jesus paid the sin debt. Only God can do this.
If Jesus were not God.. He would then be absolutely nuts to be able to claim to have power of sin itself and claim by belief in Himself to have everlasting life.
Forgiving sin can only be done by God because mortal man is sinful. Man can forgive someone who has offended them in principle.. but has no power over sin itself.
Last edited:
@Peterlag
Jesus in his humanity could be tempted, and the devil gave him his best effort and failed miserably, it was wasted effort on his part. Selah!
Peter, what are you smoking? God infinitely loveth righteousness and hates wickedness that he cannot even be tempted with evil, and neither tempteth he any man!
James 1:13
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”Jesus in his humanity could be tempted, and the devil gave him his best effort and failed miserably, it was wasted effort on his part. Selah!
@Peterlag
Much like God's children today, even those close to us, never give it a serious thought who we truly are, other than a religious fruit cake. They too are offended at us, and truly a little ashamed of us at times over the years. Why would people hate Jesus and his people? They are blinded to the truth.
The Jews were as blinded as you and @Kewi, @Studyman @Runningman are, they thought Jesus was just another carpenter, from an ordinary family.
Mark 6:3
“Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.”Much like God's children today, even those close to us, never give it a serious thought who we truly are, other than a religious fruit cake. They too are offended at us, and truly a little ashamed of us at times over the years. Why would people hate Jesus and his people? They are blinded to the truth.
@Keiw1
Many false cults started around the mid 1800s (JW, SDA, Mormons, Christian science, Pentecostalism a little later, etc., etc.) about the same time that the market places of this world were flooded with false bibles. Up until the mid 1800's there were one or two English bibles in the world, now, who knows, that are new one hitting the market yearly, for just about every lifestyle that wicked men are living to adjust to their perverted lifestyle.
Personally I truly believe that's when the little season begun per John in the book of Revelation, but, another study for another day.
You said: "every translation on Earth the teachings of Jesus back JW religion"
JW is a lifeless, Spiritless religion of the devil.
You said: "You best learn them properly."
The scriptures teaches us:
So, for me and my house, it is the KJV word of my God. I do not know what meets these criterias more than the word of God in the KJV bible for the English speaking people of this world.
Wishful thinking on your part, is just that...wishful thinking. Keiw, your religion is only an hundred and seventy five years old.
Many false cults started around the mid 1800s (JW, SDA, Mormons, Christian science, Pentecostalism a little later, etc., etc.) about the same time that the market places of this world were flooded with false bibles. Up until the mid 1800's there were one or two English bibles in the world, now, who knows, that are new one hitting the market yearly, for just about every lifestyle that wicked men are living to adjust to their perverted lifestyle.
Personally I truly believe that's when the little season begun per John in the book of Revelation, but, another study for another day.
You said: "every translation on Earth the teachings of Jesus back JW religion"
JW is a lifeless, Spiritless religion of the devil.
You said: "You best learn them properly."
The scriptures teaches us:
Philippians 4:8
“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”So, for me and my house, it is the KJV word of my God. I do not know what meets these criterias more than the word of God in the KJV bible for the English speaking people of this world.
Peterlag
Active Member
Have I missed something? Is it not the folks on this side that are telling me everyday that the Jews knew Jesus was God?
Since you can't tell me why God would come to the earth as a man. Perhaps you can explain some of this...
The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100% man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.
For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.
Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.
Peterlag
Active Member
Then how can Jesus be God if he can sin and God cannot?
Runningman
Active Member
Temptation fundamentally comes from desire, but it isn't always an evil desire. It is a desire apart from the will of God which Jesus experienced in the wilderness upon his temptation. Instead of fasting for God for 40 days, Jesus could have perhaps turned a stone in a loaf of bread because he wanted to eat. He also could have all the kingdoms of the world and their glory because that was something that could tempt him.
Someone who has a will apart from God is not God incarnate having come to earth.
Luke 22
42“Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
Runningman
Active Member
Concerning those who also misunderstood Jesus and accused him of claiming to be God, he made the below statement. Don't you think that since you are repeating the same talking points as those whom Jesus rebuked that, perhaps, it's time to reconsider what you're saying?
John 8
43Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!
Runningman
Active Member
Good question! I wouldn't want to pick a fight with God.
They wanted to kill Him for the claim He made ... not because they believed Him to be God.
Jesus's self identity led the Pharisees to accuse Him of thinking he had equality with the Father.
Jesus also claimed equality for Himself through accepting the title of Son of God and referencing the great I AM when challenged by the Pharisees.
They didn't think He was God..they thought He was blaspheming.
This you know obviously.. but it does not mean Jesus was not God.
The point is they wanted to kill Him because of His claim to deity.
Peterlag
Active Member
Think about this for a minute. Jesus could have sinned. Like you said he was temped to sin. God cannot sin.
Peterlag
Active Member
Is it here on this website where I'm often posting that following?
God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.
And then the comments that I get are always saying "the Jews knew he was God."
They knew He claimed to be God
I have a few minutes before I must leave.
Jesus Christ was a complex person, 100% man through Mary his mother; and he was 100% God, by the very fact God begotten /conceived him by his power in the womb of Mary his mother without the natural use of a sperm by another man.
Jeremiah 31:22
“How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.”Luke 1:34
“Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”His humanity could sin, his deity could not. Yet, the two never worked together in order to live a sinless life, he did so by faith and his love for the truth being God's only begotten Son in the manner in which he was conceived by the power of the God.
The Word, Who is God, joined a human nature in the person of Jesus of Nazareth (John 1:1-3,14) This is the great mystery of godliness ~ God Himself was manifest in the flesh (1st Timothy 3:16).
Jesus Christ is also known as Emmanuel – God with us (Isaiah 7:14 cp. Matthew 1:23). Jesus Christ is the human body and nature indwelt by the fullness of the Godhead (Colossians 2:8,9)
The Deity of Jesus Christ ~ He is truly and fully God ~ Scripture affirms plainly and unequivocally. To reject this is to reject the word of God, and be cast into teh lake of fire, which is the second death. The Word is God without qualification; the Word became Jesus of Nazareth by joining His flesh.
It is another straw man argument of Rome to accuse us of denying the full deity of Jesus Christ, for it is their doctrine of a begotten god that corrupts the Bible message of His full Godhead. We only can say that Jesus Christ’s divine nature is fully Jehovah God without qualification. They must say that His divine nature is begotten and generated, yielding a begotten God. Only the ignorant or malicious accuse us of denying the full deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. God is a Spirit. Jesus Christ had a body. Jesus Christ is God, but God is not Jesus Christ.
The humanity of Jesus Christ ~ He is truly and fully man ~ Scripture also unequivocally teaches.
Mary conceived and bore a human child similar to all other mothers (Matthew 1:18-20; Luke 2:23). The only mediator between God and man is the man Christ Jesus (1st Timothy 2:5 cp Job 9:32,33). God assumed flesh and blood to destroy Satan’s work and be our high priest (Hebrews 2:14-17) . Peter stop saying no one has answered your question, it is nothing more than a fallacy you are employing hoping folks will buy into it. Only those deceived like you will.
Jesus was made in the likeness of men after having been in the form of God (Philippians 2:5-11).
The hypostatic union is the combination of God the Word and a human nature in a single Being. God is a Spirit (John 4:24), but a human body was prepared for God to possess (Hebrews 10:5). Neither Christ’s divinity (John 8:58) nor His humanity (Hebrews 4:15) was changed by their union. But He is not fully Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour without His body (Luke 2;12; 24;39).
Again, Jesus of Nazareth is the complex Person of God and man ~ He possesses both complete natures.
This point is very important to properly understand God’s record of His Son Jesus Christ. The attributes of one nature are often ascribed to a name derived from the other nature. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, so His Person involves divine and human characteristics. Jesus Christ fully experienced all the aspects of human growth, weakness, and temptation. Jesus Christ, referred to as God, a Spirit, purchased the church with His BLOOD (Acts 20:28). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, DIED (Galatians 2:20). But only His humanity died (1st Timothy 1:17; 6:16). Jesus, the Son of man, was OMNIPRESENT (John 3:13). Only His Deity could be so (Jeremiah 23:24). Jesus, the Son of man, WAS WITH GOD (John 6:62). Only His divinity could be so (John 1:1). Jesus, the Son, is SUBJECT TO GOD (1st Corinthians 15:28). Only His humanity will be subject to God. Jesus, the Son, had a MOTHER NAMED MARY (Matthew 1:21). Mary is "not" the mother of God! Jesus claimed to be BEFORE ABRAHAM (John 8:58). Only His Deity was eternal (Micah 5:2). Jesus grew in WISDOM AND STATURE (Luke 2:52). Only His humanity was ignorant (Colossians 2:3). Jesus slept (Mark 4:38), but only in His humanity; for His Deity could not sleep (Psalm 121:4). Jesus thirsted, ate, and did all the things a human nature does, but which Deity cannot do.
Well Peter, you have yet talked to the right person, now you are if you will listen. The Jews were Jesus' most hated enemies, even though a few, a very small remnant among them were the some of the most godly men and women that ever lived. The Jews religion was antichrist through and through. It was a religion base on their own man made commandments. They persecuted the church of God, and wasted it, with Paul being one of their ringleaders until he was apprehended by the Spirit of the Living God.
Peter, that's one of your problems, you are listening to other voices and not following the word of God only.
1st Thessalonians 2:14
“For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:”Try following the word of God, it will keep you from being put to shame. But, you seem as though you are much like the Jews, who are without Christ.
@Runningman
Read this verse again and again, and again. and tell me if you are truly giving Jesus Christ is rightful place as:
But you are, and you will lose this fight. If you refuse sir, to honour the Son of God, AS YOU HONOUR God, then in truth you have yet to give God his honour.
John 5:23
“That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”Read this verse again and again, and again. and tell me if you are truly giving Jesus Christ is rightful place as:
Romans 9:5
“Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.”
Peterlag
Active Member
We are not on the same page. The Jews I'm referring to are the following...
God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.
Similar threads
