FreeInChrist
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wrong forum
Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?
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@FreeInChrist
What do you mean by this? I'm going to make a few post in this thread starting to tomorrow to get caught up.
Only is this so, as far as his humanity goes. God is a Spirit that inhabited eternity, always has, always will, this can never change, impossible. The only God man will ever see will be Jesus Christ in his glorified body, the only way man can see God ~ to believe otherwise, is to not understand such scriptures as:
This is true of Jesus Christ in his Deity as God.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I cannot post in the debate forum. And I made a post. This is the correct one... for that. And I corrected my mistake.
DavidTree
Active Member
i was wondering where you were.
@Runningman
Every religion must be measured by the certainty and validity of its claims, including the gospel.
The Holy Spirit of God so moved in and through Jesus Christ as to prove His identity as God’s Son. It was the Holy Ghost that came upon Mary and wrought the glorious conception in her (Luke 1:35) The Holy Spirit moved Simeon and Anna to declare about His Person and Character (Luke 2:25-38) He appeared as a dove at His baptism, proving His exceptional Person (Matthew 3:16,17) The Holy Spirit led Him into the wilderness for successful resistance of the devil (Matthew 4:1-11) Elisha may have had twice the spirit of Elijah, but Jesus Christ had more than both squared.
The Spirit, from Pentecost forward, has testified of Jesus Christ (John 15:26; Acts 2:33-36; 18:5) The gift of the Spirit that Jesus had promised confirmed Him and His word with many at Pentecost. The apostles did mighty signs and wonders by the Spirit to vindicate Jesus (Hebrews 2:1-4; Romans 15:19) The Spirit still justifies Him by Bible preaching along with baptism and communion (1st John 5:6-8)
Just to mentioned a few.
"JUSTIFIED IN THE SPIRIT"........................................................
The sense of justification here is proving one’s identity and character (Luke 7:29; Romans 3:4; Isaiah 5:23)Every religion must be measured by the certainty and validity of its claims, including the gospel.
The Holy Spirit of God so moved in and through Jesus Christ as to prove His identity as God’s Son. It was the Holy Ghost that came upon Mary and wrought the glorious conception in her (Luke 1:35) The Holy Spirit moved Simeon and Anna to declare about His Person and Character (Luke 2:25-38) He appeared as a dove at His baptism, proving His exceptional Person (Matthew 3:16,17) The Holy Spirit led Him into the wilderness for successful resistance of the devil (Matthew 4:1-11) Elisha may have had twice the spirit of Elijah, but Jesus Christ had more than both squared.
The Spirit, from Pentecost forward, has testified of Jesus Christ (John 15:26; Acts 2:33-36; 18:5) The gift of the Spirit that Jesus had promised confirmed Him and His word with many at Pentecost. The apostles did mighty signs and wonders by the Spirit to vindicate Jesus (Hebrews 2:1-4; Romans 15:19) The Spirit still justifies Him by Bible preaching along with baptism and communion (1st John 5:6-8)
Just to mentioned a few.
@DavidTree
I was out of town but came back early, and went to the wrong thread. My bad. I'll get caught up and will address every single point they may think is in their favor.
@kewi
Even though born six months after John! He was the one that sent John! Selah
All you are doing is repeating someone else's lie. We know that it is not so, not by knowing the Greek, for who cares, God surely does not and why should I........ other scriptures tell me that it is a lie what you saying. John 1:14 cp with 1st Timothy 3:16, and many other scriptures, said that you have no clue as to what you are saying. Even John the Baptist said in the same chapter these words:
John 1:30
“This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.”Even though born six months after John! He was the one that sent John! Selah
DavidTree
Active Member
The purpose of this thread is for those whom the @Adminstrator paired up to work together.
i think the @Adminstrator paired you and i together but no matter what, let's not allow the opposition to divert from scripture that pertains to the question(s) presented.
Please use any of my posts for your own strategy and cumulative alignment of TRUTH.
Runningman
Active Member
Cool.
That 1 Timothy 3:16 proves that God justified Jesus, is one of the most powerful pieces of proof against the deity of Jesus in the Bible.
The justification regarding Jesus is entirely different to flawed people who believe on Jesus. The context is not about salvation regarding Jesus.
Because as man, and as the Son of God, God was his Father, not too deep. We simply apply scriptures properly by giving them their proper sense. The scriptures speaks clearly of the dual nature of Jesus Christ, and so must we. We will say much more on this when we address Peter's post very soon, since he went into this subject expressing his disagreement, so we shall address his post on this.
Nehemiah 8:8
“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”No where is that so important as to when we are considering Jesus' Sonship and his Deity in particularly. If have noticed that the Unitarians hide their lies behind sound bites, much like those who reject unconditional salvation for God's elect. Basically, all are guilty who have a bias agenda to protect, or when they think they are exposing an error. They all go after sound bites and purposely over look, or refuse to consider certain scriptures that would expose their corruption and rejection of God's truths. Honest children of God addresses all scriptures pro's and con's to the best of their God given ability, trusting God for guidance.
As strange as it may seem to many, the only place when the everlasting Father is mentioned it has reference "only" to Christ.
Isaiah 9:6
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”The child that was born, the son given is no other than "The" everlasting Father! Sound strange? No, if one understand the complex nature of Jesus Christ, but it truly is strange in the ears of all Unitarians, if they are honest.
Well, it is a mystery, without controversary, so said the faithful apostle Paul.
Ephesians 3:9
“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:”Part of the mystery of God is God creating all things by Jesus Christ, which could only be true if Jesus in his Deity was the God of Genesis 1:1, and he was.
1st Timothy 3:16
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”Why did Paul mentioned that God was seen of angels? It is hard to to know the answer to this ~ it is becuase for he "FIRST" time angels saw God in the person of his Son Jesus Christ! The six things mentioned here by Paul was only true in Christ, when he came into the world and then received back up into glory far above all.
@Peterlag
Jesus spoke in parables, which even the disciples found so difficult they questioned His methods, to keep the people from knowing the truth, for He did not want to convert them (Matthew 13:10-15, 3,35; Mark 4:33,34). They had already rejected His word, so He took even what they thought they had to give to others (Luke 8:18). Because the Lord of heaven and earth designed it to reveal or conceal truth, depending on how men approach it, as it seemed good in His sight (Matthew 11: 25-27)
You said: "He was going to accomplish by coming. And yet there's not an inkling of why God would come or what He would accomplish by coming."
I dealt with this early on, not going to rehash it at length again. In a word or two: God laid help upon one that was mighty to save, his only begotten Son, for he alone did in the flesh what first Adam could not do. Maybe more on thsi alter.
Of course God/Christ speaks in words for the sole purpose of hiding truth from folks who do not deserve truth, because of the spirit in which many desire truth, yet too lazy to seek it with all of their hearts, mind, and soul, and trusting not in their wisdom but in the mercy of God to grant them truth to be use for his glory and honour and for the joy, peace of his people. The bible is no lazy man's book, o for folks who half heartily seek truth, or for men who come to the word of God with their preconceived thoughts and doctrines, then they will leave more confused than ever.
Jesus spoke in parables, which even the disciples found so difficult they questioned His methods, to keep the people from knowing the truth, for He did not want to convert them (Matthew 13:10-15, 3,35; Mark 4:33,34). They had already rejected His word, so He took even what they thought they had to give to others (Luke 8:18). Because the Lord of heaven and earth designed it to reveal or conceal truth, depending on how men approach it, as it seemed good in His sight (Matthew 11: 25-27)
You said: "He was going to accomplish by coming. And yet there's not an inkling of why God would come or what He would accomplish by coming."
I dealt with this early on, not going to rehash it at length again. In a word or two: God laid help upon one that was mighty to save, his only begotten Son, for he alone did in the flesh what first Adam could not do. Maybe more on thsi alter.
Peterlag
Active Member
Jesus spoke in parables because the spirit had not yet been given.
Runningman
Active Member
Even Jesus received salvation. It isn't that Jesus was ever a sinner, not like that, but Jesus was judged for his works and exalted as a result. This would be unthinkable, unfathomable even, if Jesus were God. God doesn't need to be saved and doesn't need to be judged by His works to get justification, salvation, and exaltation, but Jesus did.
Hebrews 5
7who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,
Philippians 2
8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
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Runningman
Active Member
God is the Father of many in the Bible and those sons of God are not themselves God. See Adam in Luke 3:38, the angels in John 1:6, Job 28:7, and believers in Romans 8:14.
No one in the Bible ever said that this verse is about Jesus. We can actually fact check this verse against the things Jesus was called. For starters, since the son was born then he isn't any eternal being. He was also never called "the mighty God" or "everlasting Father" in the Bible. That a finite son could be the eternal Father is actually a strike against the concept of God that Trinitarianism proclaims; the Son is not the Father.
Context about what God created through Jesus is the church. Same concept is repeated in Colossians 1:15-20, Hebrews 1:1,2, 1 John 1:1-3. But as far as the material universe is concerned, God created that all alone by Himself according to Isaiah 44:24. There is no mention of a "they" or "them" being creators in the Bible.
Not even trinitarians agree with that.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
God was manifest in the flesh.—Here, in the most ancient authorities, the word “God” does not occur. We must, then, literally translate the Greek of the most famous and trustworthy MSS. as follows: He who was manifested in the flesh. In the later MSS., and in the great majority of the fathers who cite the passage, we certainly find Theos (“God”), as in the Received text. The substitution can be traced to no special doctrinal prejudice, but is owing, probably, to a well-meant correction of early scribes.
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
“There is no doubt that the reading ‘who’ … has the support of the ancient Greek MSS … some of which were altered to read ‘God’; the support for ‘God’ is weak … We take the reading ‘who’ unhesitatingly.”
Vincent's Word Studies
“God (Θεός) — But the correct reading is ὃς who.”
ICC (International Critical Commentary)
ὅς.] What is the antecedent? … It can scarcely be θεός, to which ἐδικαίωθη would not be suitable…”
Expositor’s Greek Testament
“If we assume that ὅς is the right reading, it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that what follows is a quotation …”
source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_timothy/3-16.htm
Neither verse regards eternal salvation.
The second passage regards God humbling Himself.. as harmonizing with the likes of Phillipians 2:6.
The first passage:
Salvation can just mean...plain deliverance from trouble. The context determines which.
For eg..Matthew 24 regarding 'he who endureth to the end shall be saved "..the context is not eternal salvation but deliverance from trials and tribulation during the end of end times.
@Peterlag
Every word Christ spoke was before Acts 2, so your reasoning is meaningless. Let us hear straight from Christ as to why he spoke in parables.
Peter, you, and @Runningman @Studyman @Keiw1 have purposely closed you eyes to the scriptures concerning Jesus Christ's Deity, of all doctrines, the most serious doctrine to not humble yourself unto and receive God's testimony/witness concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the savior of sinners. I have noticed that you men and women, for the most part, very seldom used the Lord Jesus Christ when referring to God's Son, you used for the most part only Jesus, to avoid using Christ, which speak of his Deity, and Lord, which speak of him being the only Potentate; so, moving forward with you deniers of Christ's Deity, I will only used his full titles when speaking of him. @Studyman favorite phrase when speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ, is "the Jesus of the bible", which by the time he's finished ranting using vain jangling, he's clearly preaching "another jesus".
(KJV) Luke_7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
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