Peterlag
Active Member
I have no idea what you are referring to when you say... Every word Christ spoke was before Acts 2, so your reasoning is meaningless.
Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?
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Jesus is Gods son= not God.
Jesus( The being God sent to Earth) is the firstborn of all creation, thus preceded John.
Yes why won't you believe fact--One God to all= the Father= not the Father, son and holy spirit. You all seem to need English lessons.
@Peterlag
Well Peter, even though you reject The Jesus Christ Deity, why in the world would anyone in their right mind pick a fight with God's Son? Your question is childish.
Or, you would not need a word come to you, since no one is greater than you and would not need a word to come to you from any outside source.
Again your question are childish and not too deep.
The only scriptural way of knowing one has eternal life is to believe that Jesus is the CHRIST the promised Messiah of Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2, Isaiah 53, etc. Christ speak of his Deity of being from everlasting per Micah 5:2, etc. !
You @Studyman @Runningman @Keiw1 have a CHRISTLESS religion that is of the evil one, and the Jesus you folks do teach, is another Jesus, with another gospel, under the power of another spirit. Which puts you under the curse of God per Galatians one.
Sorry Peter, I tagged that to you and it should have been to @Runningman.
Peter, man if he could, would kill God, but God is a Spirit, so, that would be impossible, His Son who came in the likeness of sinful flesh, came as a sheep to slaughter and he opened not his mouth for he came to be the surety of God's elect. He laid down his life, even though despising the shame of the cross, yet for the joy set before him, set his face as a flint to Calvary.
Hebrews 12:2
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”Well Peter, even though you reject The Jesus Christ Deity, why in the world would anyone in their right mind pick a fight with God's Son? Your question is childish.
No you are not, for if you were you could do one of two things: Not sleep........
Psalms 121:4
“Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.”Or, you would not need a word come to you, since no one is greater than you and would not need a word to come to you from any outside source.
1st Corinthians 2:16
“For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.”Again your question are childish and not too deep.
No one can be baptized into the religion of Jesus Christ without believing in Jesus CHRIST..... again, an absolute perquisite in order for any person to be baptized and to be recognized as a true believer in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and by that statement, one is confessing that he believes in the Deity of Christ.
Acts 8:37
“And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”John 20:31
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”The only scriptural way of knowing one has eternal life is to believe that Jesus is the CHRIST the promised Messiah of Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2, Isaiah 53, etc. Christ speak of his Deity of being from everlasting per Micah 5:2, etc. !
You @Studyman @Runningman @Keiw1 have a CHRISTLESS religion that is of the evil one, and the Jesus you folks do teach, is another Jesus, with another gospel, under the power of another spirit. Which puts you under the curse of God per Galatians one.
The Lord Jesus Christ is both God's only begotten Son; and he was God manifest in the flesh around two thousand years. Christ will be the only God you will ever bow down to and give account of all that you have said against him. Then you shall know who Jesus Christ truly is.
Jesus Christ is the visible representation of the invisible God, for He is the Word made flesh. No man has or can see God, but men have and will see God made flesh in Jesus (John 1:14,18). This is a great mystery of godliness; God was manifest in the flesh as Immanuel (1st Timothy 3:16). Jesus is not just a similarity or close image of God: as God, He is His express image (Hebrews 1:3).
Jesus Christ is a creature in his human nature, but He is highest of them by virtue of His divine. He was made flesh, made of the seed of David, made a quickening spirit, made of a woman, made under the law, made himself of no reputation, made in the likeness of men, made so much better than angels, made lower than the angels, made like unto his brethren, made higher than the heavens (John 1:14; Romans 1:3; 1st Corinthians 15:45; Galatians 4:4; Philippians 2:7; Hebrews 1:4; 2:9,17; 7:26)
Firstborn describes the preeminent "position", regardless of any birth order (Hebrews 11:17).
He is the heir, superior, with all the rights of every creature, for He created all creatures (Hebrews 1:16).
I do stay with scripture much more than you four will ever attempt to do. Do not try to intimidate me, it will not work. The Pharisees got easily offended and it did not stop Christ from exposing their lies and corruption, and neither will it stop me.
Matthew 15:12
“Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?”So, what is getting down into the mire by what I said? If truth hurts, then you need to get out of mire of corrupting God's word concerning the witness he has given concerning his Son, a witness that you folks mock.
1st John 5:7-9
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.”You men mock the record that God has given of his Son, the Lord Jesús Christ, whom John said these words:
1st John 5:20
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
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John 10:17-18 KJV - Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Philippians 2:5-8 KJV - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
@Runningman
They are one in nature ~ John 1:1,14; One in attributes ~ John 1:48; one in operations ~ Genesis 1:1 cp. Colossians 1:16; one in purpose..........
John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”They are one in nature ~ John 1:1,14; One in attributes ~ John 1:48; one in operations ~ Genesis 1:1 cp. Colossians 1:16; one in purpose..........
John 5:19
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”
DavidTree
Active Member
Jesus is God's only Begotten Son.
That makes Him equal with His FATHER in Authority over Creation.
The only Person who has Authority over JESUS is His FATHER.
FACT= The firstborn of all creation-ALL creation occurred at the beginning, then God rested. The being God sent to Earth= Prov 8:30= Gods master worker= the one who was beside God during creation. We all know it is the mortal named Jesus who was by Gods side. Prov 8:22-The Hebrew word for possessed= created- me as the beginning of your way( creating)- He gives God 100% credit as HE, not us or we(Prov 8:27-28)
Same at Gen 1:26-27) error says us created, but verse 27 is clear HE created. He is singular. Thus The US at verse 26= Jehovah and his Master worker=Jesus= Jehovah created all other things through( John 1:3, Coll 1:16)Jesus=Gods master worker. The one whom God grew especially fond of. Only Jehovah has the power and wisdom to create anything. He does it through Jesus. Even on Earth ( Acts 2:22)God( Jehovah) did all the powerful works through Jesus.
@Runningman
You said: "He isn't God nor did he resurrect himself."
Though he was raised by God, it does not mean that he could not do it, because he is one with his Father. Hav eyou never read so much as this:
Not that his Father would, but HE WOULD, since he was God in his Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1! What God can do, Christ can do in his deity.
You said: "Yes they are about the eternal life Jesus received."
Jesus Christ is both the giver and the recipient of eternal life. As God, he has the power to give eternal life to whosoever he will; as man, he earned eternal life by his perfect life of faith and obedience to the law of God.
You said: "He didn't inherently have it, hence he died, and was resurrected by God."
Jesus Christ came into this world as the surety of God's elect; he is the only person that could keep the law of God perfectly, in order to provide a righteousness worthy of eternal life for those he stood as a surety for.
You men and women do not know the the word of God, you only know how to repeat what you have come to accept, that's about as far as you can go.
You said: "He isn't God nor did he resurrect himself."
Though he was raised by God, it does not mean that he could not do it, because he is one with his Father. Hav eyou never read so much as this:
John 2:19
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”Not that his Father would, but HE WOULD, since he was God in his Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1! What God can do, Christ can do in his deity.
You said: "Yes they are about the eternal life Jesus received."
Jesus Christ is both the giver and the recipient of eternal life. As God, he has the power to give eternal life to whosoever he will; as man, he earned eternal life by his perfect life of faith and obedience to the law of God.
John 17:2
“As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.”You said: "He didn't inherently have it, hence he died, and was resurrected by God."
2nd Corinthians 5:21
“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”Jesus Christ came into this world as the surety of God's elect; he is the only person that could keep the law of God perfectly, in order to provide a righteousness worthy of eternal life for those he stood as a surety for.
Runningman
Active Member
Let's look at it.
You believe Jesus is the one Lord. Good job. Pretty easy right? It says Jesus is the one Lord and you believe it. You demonstrate you understand what the Bible says about that.
Now, who is the One God?
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@Keiw1
This proverb is often perverted to teach that Jesus is a begotten God – a secondary God generated by the Father. Heretics crept into the church 150 years after the apostles and taught that the deity of Jesus Christ was derived from His Father. They taught that Jehovah begat a Son in eternity by a mysterious process of eternal generation. You can read this blasphemy in John 1:18 of the NASV. Jehovah’s Witnesses, blasphemous heretics themselves, love such a devilish doctrine, for Jesus is a subordinate god to them.
Jesus is not a begotten God at all. Jesus is the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus is Jehovah, the fulness of the Godhead in a body (Col 2:9). Jesus is I AM THAT I AM. Jesus is the Everlasting Father (Isaiah (9:6). Jesus is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:1,14). Jehovah never begat a god or a son in its divine nature. Jehovah had a Son named Jesus, when He brought about Mary’s conception; it is this miraculous birth that makes Jesus God’s Son (Luke 1:35). Only after this birth, this incarnation of deity in humanity, did God have a Son (John 1:1,14). This is the great mystery of godliness (1st Timothy 3;16).
The most important message of the New Testament is that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, and it is this precise doctrine that we called to believe and defend. A derived, begotten, generated, or otherwise inferior deity from eternity is not the Son of God. The divine nature of Jesus was and is undivided, unbegotten, unoriginated, and ungenerated. He was and is the Word of God, without origin, begetting, generation, or any other manmade idea (John 1:1). He is Jehovah. Jesus is not an eternal Son. He is the eternal God. He became the Son of God by His glorious incarnation in Mary’s womb (Luke 1:35; Galatians 4:4).
JW's and other heretics ignorantly reject the personification of wisdom in this chapter. The proverb does not speak of God having a little boy playing with Him in eternity! Lady Wisdom speaks, and she is figuratively describing herself as always having been with the LORD of heaven and earth. Read Proverbs 8:22 again. Here it is: “The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.” God has always had wisdom.
If this proverb describes the divine nature of Jesus in eternity, as some false teachers say, then the divine nature of Jesus is female, for the pronouns are feminine! Wisdom is a woman by personification in this chapter and the other places where Solomon used the figure. If Jesus is intended here, then He was just a female spectator at creation Proverbs 8:27. But, we know otherwise.
I have already give you the sense of firstborn...
You said: The being God sent to Earth= Prov 8:30= Gods master worker= the one who was beside God during creation. We all know it is the mortal named Jesus who was by Gods side. Prov 8:22-The Hebrew word for possessed= created- me as the beginning of your way( creating)- He gives God 100% credit as HE, not us or we(Prov 8:27-28)
Proverbs 8:30
“Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;”This proverb is often perverted to teach that Jesus is a begotten God – a secondary God generated by the Father. Heretics crept into the church 150 years after the apostles and taught that the deity of Jesus Christ was derived from His Father. They taught that Jehovah begat a Son in eternity by a mysterious process of eternal generation. You can read this blasphemy in John 1:18 of the NASV. Jehovah’s Witnesses, blasphemous heretics themselves, love such a devilish doctrine, for Jesus is a subordinate god to them.
Jesus is not a begotten God at all. Jesus is the mighty God (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus is Jehovah, the fulness of the Godhead in a body (Col 2:9). Jesus is I AM THAT I AM. Jesus is the Everlasting Father (Isaiah (9:6). Jesus is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:1,14). Jehovah never begat a god or a son in its divine nature. Jehovah had a Son named Jesus, when He brought about Mary’s conception; it is this miraculous birth that makes Jesus God’s Son (Luke 1:35). Only after this birth, this incarnation of deity in humanity, did God have a Son (John 1:1,14). This is the great mystery of godliness (1st Timothy 3;16).
The most important message of the New Testament is that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, and it is this precise doctrine that we called to believe and defend. A derived, begotten, generated, or otherwise inferior deity from eternity is not the Son of God. The divine nature of Jesus was and is undivided, unbegotten, unoriginated, and ungenerated. He was and is the Word of God, without origin, begetting, generation, or any other manmade idea (John 1:1). He is Jehovah. Jesus is not an eternal Son. He is the eternal God. He became the Son of God by His glorious incarnation in Mary’s womb (Luke 1:35; Galatians 4:4).
JW's and other heretics ignorantly reject the personification of wisdom in this chapter. The proverb does not speak of God having a little boy playing with Him in eternity! Lady Wisdom speaks, and she is figuratively describing herself as always having been with the LORD of heaven and earth. Read Proverbs 8:22 again. Here it is: “The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.” God has always had wisdom.
If this proverb describes the divine nature of Jesus in eternity, as some false teachers say, then the divine nature of Jesus is female, for the pronouns are feminine! Wisdom is a woman by personification in this chapter and the other places where Solomon used the figure. If Jesus is intended here, then He was just a female spectator at creation Proverbs 8:27. But, we know otherwise.
DavidTree
Active Member
JESUS is the Creator of Creation = John chapter 1
JESUS is the Firstborn man from the Grave unto Glorification = Gospel
JESUS is the Firstfruits of mankind, from the Grave, who Entered Heaven unto the FATHER = Acts/1 Corinthians/Revelation
@Red Baker
You gave error teaching on the firstborn. You lack real understanding of Prov 8. I showed you he can't be Jehovah. That is what happens when wicked men who had no right= by satans will, removed Gods personal name in over 7000 spots--- To mislead. It confuses many. One must be taught by these-Matt 24:45
John chapter 1==Things were created-THROUGH( 1:3) Jesus. In the English language that means another did the creating THROUGH Jesus.
Runningman
Active Member
I will forgive you if reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but I highly doubt that is the problem here. It's most likely a willful act of self-deception. You really need John 17:3 to either go away or mean something it doesn't already say. Jesus is praying to the Father in John 17:1-3, identifying Him as the only true God. Jesus is identifying himself as the one the only true God sent. I know, you don't believe it's a check mate, but, for the record, the Father being called the only true God rules out other potential candidates for being God.
I would also add, your reading of John 17:3 is on the fringe. I have seen very few Trinitarians make the claim that the only true God is the Father and Jesus. On a side note. I did take a polling of random people and how they read John 17:3. No idea what their religious affiliation was, didn't ask either. I simply wanted to know how, generally speaking, people comprehend the words of John 17:1-3. There were several off the wall answers, but the bulk majority understood clearly that Jesus is not God, not can be, based on the reading of John 17:1-3.
Is Jesus visible?
Is God visible?
God can be identified by His characteristics. One of the characteristics of Jesus is not invisibility. On the matter of characteristics that God and Jesus don't share, there is a laundry list of them that go ignored.
The easiest way to explain how God and Jesus can both be Lords is that they are different Lords "over all" of the things within their domain. It doesn't mean they are both the same person, especially when there are some serious guardrails already put up like the Fathe being the "one God" or the "only true God." Jesus and God have a hierarchy. While Jesus is the one who God made Lord over the church (Acts 2:36, Eph. 1:22) the Father is the one Lord over heaven and earth. (Matt 11:25, Acts 17:24,25)
And the Father is that one Lord who sent Jesus:
Acts 3
20that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you.
I don't mean to spoil the ending, but I have already had this debate over the entire Bible. I don't find any of the trinitarian talking points challenging. I have already studied it all. Which version of the Bible do you prefer? KJV?
Runningman
Active Member
No rush. I have a life outside of this forum. I will reply as time allows. Sometimes I might hit a stretch where I reply a lot. Sometimes I might not reply most of the day.
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