Sealed by the baptism en the Holy Ghost

[Doug Brents]

Yes, dan, you are a dead horse. I'm glad you recognize that fact. Only God can change it.

 

[dwight92070]

No. It is because to believe they were saved by the Spirit falling on them in power would contradict many other passages of Scripture. What I see you and fred and dan and others doing with this passage is defining passages of instruction based upon an interpretation of events in a descriptive passage. Rather, we must use the passages of instruction to show us what happened in the description of events.

Again, no. The many passages that tell us that salvation is received in/during/by baptism in water are very clear and explicit. And they must hold the authority over the interpretation of events like those in Acts 10. What does Scripture say Cornelius received when the Spirit fell ON him? "Praise and tongues". He received empowerment just as those in the upper room on Pentecost did. Even the Jews with Peter in Cornelius' house received the same empowerment as the Gentiles did, for He fell on "all those who were listening". These Jews were already part of the Church, so they were already indwelt and did not need "re-indwelling". But we can all receive additional empowerment.

You have repeatedly given me your go-to verses, none of which make your false doctrine clear or explicit. You are also wrong about the Jews that came with Peter. Verse 45 makes it clear that they were amazed that the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles, not on themselves. Obviously, they had already received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the same time that Peter did. vs. 47

Yes, all of this deals with the New Covenant, but the stories of the Old Covenant are there for us to learn from, and to see how God deals with mankind. The evidence from the OC is that God can empower anyone and anything at any time regardless of the condition (or even presence) of its soul. The only change from the OC to the NC is that in the NC He added indwelling the hearts of those who are His, rather than simply residing with/on them.

Your first answer makes no senses - it's just a barrage of words, with no specifics, that you pretend mean something.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, dan, you are a dead horse. I'm glad you recognize that fact. Only God can change it.

Oh the irony.

 

[Fred]

You need to go back to grade school and study English.

You need to graduate from pre-school and learn to stop playing make believe with the meanings of words.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are also wrong about the Jews that came with Peter. Verse 45 makes it clear that they were amazed that the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles, not on themselves.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message." Acts 10:44 The Jews were also listening to the message.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If one has the gift of tongues then he/she is in the church (1 Cor. 12:28).

Was Baalam's donkey "in the church" when It spoke in tongues??

 

[mailmandan]

Was Baalam's donkey "in the church" when It spoke in tongues??

One of the most ludicrous arguments from church of Christ folks that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either.

In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. The donkey did not get saved and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for human believers only.

 

[Doug Brents]

One of the most ludicrous arguments from church of Christ folks that I have ever heard in a desperate effort to "get around" the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12)

That verse does not say that.

and were saved BEFORE water baptism is that Balaam's donkey (in Numbers 22) also spoke in tongues, but that does not prove the donkey was saved either.

In the first place, the Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam.

What do you think it means for someone to speak in tongues? God opens their mouth speak in a language they have never studied or learned. Balaam's donkey did not study the language spoken by Balaam, nor was it born with the innate ability and knowledge of language. It was gifted with the ability to speak; that IS the gift of tongues.

The donkey did not get saved and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

According to Scripture, who or what gave the donkey the ability to speak?

or the spiritual gift of tongues, which is for human believers only.

Where does Scripture say that?

 

[mailmandan]

That verse does not say that.

What do you think it means for someone to speak in tongues? God opens their mouth speak in a language they have never studied or learned. Balaam's donkey did not study the language spoken by Balaam, nor was it born with the innate ability and knowledge of language. It was gifted with the ability to speak; that IS the gift of tongues.

According to Scripture, who or what gave the donkey the ability to speak?

Where does Scripture say that?

Are you really that deceived?

 

[Fred]

Was Baalam's donkey "in the church" when It spoke in tongues??

That was under a different covenant.
Thus, it does not apply.

 

[Doug Brents]

Are you really that deceived?

Instead of attacking me, address the questions I posed.

 

[Jim]

You need to graduate from pre-school and learn to stop playing make believe with the meanings of words.

Clearly, you haven't the faintest idea about participles, specifically participial modifiers.

 

[mailmandan]

Instead of attacking me, address the questions I posed.

I'm still in shock over your questions.The Lord simply opened the mouth of the donkey to speak in order to rebuke Balaam. Plain and simple. The donkey did not get saved and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gift of tongues.

The spiritual gift of tongues is ONLY for the body of Christ who have already received the gift of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12. So, you actually believe that the spiritual gift of tongues in 1 Corrinthians 12 applies to animals as well as humans? Seriously?

 

[TomL]

As I said, this does indeed talk about the gifts that are given within the Church. But it does not say that those gifts are given exclusively to those in the Church, nor does it say that these gifts cannot be given elsewhere. It simply says that within the Church the highest gift is to the Apostles, and secondly to prophets, and thirdly to teachers, and then miraculous gifts, then healing gifts, etc.

Well then perhaps you can post a New Testament verse where a non church member is speaking in tongues praising God.

Good luck with that.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That was under a different covenant.
Thus, it does not apply.

Chuckle!!! of course not!! it doesn't fit your "Theological paradigm".

 

[Fred]

Clearly, you haven't the faintest idea

Define "idea".

 

[Fred]

Chuckle!!! of course not!! it doesn't fit your "Theological paradigm".

Keep laughing at your inability to understand what the Bible teaches.

 

[dwight92070]

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message." Acts 10:44 The Jews were also listening to the message.

That's ridiculous, so according to your reasoning then, the Holy Spirit fell on Peter also, because he too, was listening to his own message. By "all those who were listening", it is obvious that it means all those who Peter was preaching to and no, he was NOT preaching to his own companions, who had already received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But then, I'm not surprised that you interpret that sentence legalistically, not practically, using common sense and normal understanding of the English language. That's very likely why you're in a heresy to begin with.

 

[TomL]

Was Baalam's donkey "in the church" when It spoke in tongues??

It did not

What did I do to you that you struck me these three times?” Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you made a mockery of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now!” The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden all your life until this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” He said, “No.” Then Yahweh exposed the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of Yahweh standing in the road

Tongues is praising God in an unknown to you Language

 

[Jim]

It did not

What did I do to you that you struck me these three times?” Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you made a mockery of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now!” The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden all your life until this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” He said, “No.” Then Yahweh exposed the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of Yahweh standing in the road

Tongues is praising God in an unknown to you Language

The word γλῶσσα [glōssa] means the tongue, or language (often one not naturally acquired).