Sealed by the baptism en the Holy Ghost

[Bob Carabbio]

That was under a different covenant.
Thus, it does not apply.

Your OPINION is noted.

 

[dwight92070]

Imagine a worker who must enter each of 300 buildings at his work site for a few minutes every day. However, 213 of those buildings are permeated with a deadly poisonous gas.

How many of those 213 buildings should be clearly labeled: DANGER! LETHAL POISONOUS GAS! YOU MUST WEAR PROTECTIVE MASK AND GEAR OR YOU WILL DIE! ?

The answer is clear! ALL OF THEM! EVERY BUILDING WITH LETHAL GAS SHOULD BE PROPERLY LABELED.

HOW IS IT ANY DIFFERENT WITH VERSES ON SALVATION? If being baptized before you're saved is a critical requirement to avoid the eternal fire of hell, THEN EVERY VERSE THAT LEADS ONE TO SALVATION SHOULD BE CLEARLY "MARKED" WITH A WARNING OF WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU'RE NOT BAPTIZED BEFORE YOU'RE SAVED.

But they're NOT.

Why? Because the danger is NOT in not getting baptized before you're saved - rather the danger is in not getting saved.

 

[TomL]

That's just your opinion.

No, that was a fact

Acts 11:15–16 (NASB95) — 15 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 “And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’


Acts 10:45–46 (NASB95) — 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,

 

[TomL]

Yes, Baptism in the Spirit is the indwelling Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with being able to work miracles.

Yes, but Miracles may come as a result of the Spirit being in you.

 

[TomL]

FALSE. They were saved when they believed in Him (Acts 10:43) confirmed by receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (Acts 10:45-46) BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47) To reject this crystal-clear truth is to be blatantly dishonest.

Your eisegesis and blatant dishonesty is appalling. 1 Corinthians 12 states nothing about spiritual gifts being outside the body of Christ. These Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 not only spoke in tongues but received the gift of the Holy Spirit. This was an absolute confirmation they were saved. Acts 11:17 further confirms they received the same gift (Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ (compare with Acts 16:31). Acts 15:7-9 also further confirms this. - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. So, God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Absolutely FALSE. Until the blinders are removed..

I'm not calling Jesus a liar at all. Jesus said this in response to the Pharisees who accused Jesus of casting out demons by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons and was making a point that if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. By Satan using trickery and deceit to keep false prophets deceived is not about Satan casting out Satan and being divided against himself.

That is your guess, but you were not there. The demon obviously used trickery and deceit to convince her that she cast it out. I could see her in that same group that says, Lord, Lord didn't we cast out demons... She boasted to my wife and I that she did.

Did Jesus confirm that? They were obviously not children of God/saved believers because Jesus clearly told these many people that He never knew them which means they were never saved. So, where did these false prophets get this power to accomplish what they claimed to accomplish since Jesus never knew them? In context, Jesus starts out by saying, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves." (vs. 15)

Yes it is pretty clear the gentiles had received the Spirit previous to water baptism.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Yes, but Miracles may come as a result of the Spirit being in you.

BIBLICALLY by the Holy Spirit UPON YOU - same in the Old and New Testaments. Mark 11:22-24 gives information about it as does Gal 3:2.

 

[TomL]

BIBLICALLY by the Holy Spirit UPON YOU - same in the Old and New Testaments. Mark 11:22-24 gives information about it as does Gal 3:2.

Are you denying miracles may come because the Spirit is in you?

 

[Fred]

Your OPINION is noted.

What Hebrews 8:13 teaches is not an opinion.
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/commandments-of-god.277/page-2#post-5952

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Are you denying miracles may come because the Spirit is in you?

Chuckle!!! ONE MIRACLE does for sure!! You're cleansed from your SIN and made a child of God!!! That's the MOST SIGNIFICANT MIRACLE of them all!!!

 

[TomL]

Chuckle!!! ONE MIRACLE does for sure!! You're cleansed from your SIN and made a child of God!!! That's the MOST SIGNIFICANT MIRACLE of them all!!!

Again

Are you denying miracles may come because the Spirit is in you?

 

[TomL]

What Hebrews 8:13 teaches is not an opinion.
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/commandments-of-god.277/page-2#post-5952

Hebrews 8:8–13 (LEB) — 8 For in finding fault with them he says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took hold of them by my hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will decree with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I am putting my laws in their minds and I will write them on their hearts, and I will be their God and they will be my people. 11 And they will not teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their wrongdoings, and I will not remember their sins any longer.” 13 In calling it new, he has declared the former to be old. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is near to disappearing.

 

[Jim]

Just a smattering of the 213 verses in the New Testament that mention salvation without mentioning baptism:

If baptism was a God-directed requirement for salvation - as opposed to being lost for all eternity, then wouldn't EACH of these verses include that strong warning? However NONE of these verses give that warning. Why? Because water baptism is not required to be saved. It IS required - commanded - AFTER we're saved.

Romans 3:22 "even the righteousness of God through (baptism? No) faith in Jesus Christ for all those who (are baptized? No) believe."
Romans 3:26 " ... so that He would be just and the justifier of the one (who is baptized? No) who has faith in Jesus."
Romans 3:28 "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith (and baptism? No) apart from works of the Law (or works of righteousness like baptism)."
Romans 3:30 "since indeed God who will justify the circumcised (or baptized) by faith and the uncircumcised (or not baptized) through faith is one." Just as a man can have faith with or without circumcision, so a man can have faith with or without baptism.
Romans 4:9-10 "Is this blessing (salvation) then on the circumcised (or baptized) or on the uncircumcised (not baptized) also? For we say, 'Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness'. How then was it credited? ...not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;" In the same way today, faith is credited as righteousness without baptism or with baptism.
Romans 4:12 " ... who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised." Even so today, we follow the faith of our father Abraham without being baptized - for salvation. Then, after being saved, we will be baptized.
Romans 4:13 "For the promise to Abraham (and to US, his seed) or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law (or water baptism), but through the righteousness of faith (and baptism? No)."
Romans 5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by faith (and water baptism? No), we have peace with God through (baptism? No) our Lord Jesus Christ."

None of which rebuts or denies those verses that do speak of baptism in connection with salvation.

 

[Jim]

Yes, but Miracles may come as a result of the Spirit being in you.

What do you mean by "miracles may come"? Miracles don't "come"; miracles are performed by someone.

 

[Jim]

Chuckle!!! ONE MIRACLE does for sure!! You're cleansed from your SIN and made a child of God!!! That's the MOST SIGNIFICANT MIRACLE of them all!!!

For what it is worth, that is not technically and biblically a miracle. God doesn't perform miracles. God, through the Holy Spirit, empowers one to perform miracles. There are basically three categories of the works of God; they are works of creation, works of providence and works of redemption.

Briefly, miracles, fall within the category of providence. Miracles have three major characteristics. First, they are visible to those close by witnessing the event. Second, they are contrary to natural law. The third characteristic of miracles is that they serve as signs (evidence, proof, confirmation) of the revealed truth which it accompanies (see for example John 20:30-31). It is speaking there about Jesus, but the reason for any sign, wonder or miracle is the same. It identifies the worker of the miracle as a purveyor of God's truth.

Technically and biblically, our being cleansed from sin falls into the category of God's work of redemption. It is purely spiritual in its action and result.

 

[Jim]

Yes, but Miracles may come as a result of the Spirit being in you.

No, miracles come only in the work of the Holy Spirit of falling upon you (fills you) in an act separate and distinct from the work of the Holy Spirit indwelling you.

 

[Jim]

Imagine a worker who must enter each of 300 buildings at his work site for a few minutes every day. However, 213 of those buildings are permeated with a deadly poisonous gas.

How many of those 213 buildings should be clearly labeled: DANGER! LETHAL POISONOUS GAS! YOU MUST WEAR PROTECTIVE MASK AND GEAR OR YOU WILL DIE! ?

The answer is clear! ALL OF THEM! EVERY BUILDING WITH LETHAL GAS SHOULD BE PROPERLY LABELED.

HOW IS IT ANY DIFFERENT WITH VERSES ON SALVATION? If being baptized before you're saved is a critical requirement to avoid the eternal fire of hell, THEN EVERY VERSE THAT LEADS ONE TO SALVATION SHOULD BE CLEARLY "MARKED" WITH A WARNING OF WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU'RE NOT BAPTIZED BEFORE YOU'RE SAVED.

But they're NOT.

Why? Because the danger is NOT in not getting baptized before you're saved - rather the danger is in not getting saved.

So then, Paul's statement in Romans 10:9-10 is false; it is not really necessary to confess anything.

 

[mailmandan]

So then, Paul's statement in Romans 10:9-10 is false; it is not really necessary to confess anything.

Why do you believe we will be saved "if" we confess? Because it's a work for salvation after one believes unto righteousness? NO. (If that were the case, then everyone who is mute "unable to speak" would remain lost for failing to verbally confess with their mouth). It's because the word of faith is in our mouth and heart TOGETHER (Romans 10:8) and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3) There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person upon and after conversion when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that) but is a deep personal conviction and confirmation that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

 

[Jim]

Why do you believe we will be saved "if" we confess? Because it's a work for salvation after one believes unto righteousness? NO. (If that were the case, then everyone who is mute "unable to speak" would remain lost for failing to verbally confess with their mouth). It's because the word of faith is in our mouth and heart TOGETHER (Romans 10:8) and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3) There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person upon and after conversion when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that) but is a deep personal conviction and confirmation that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

Interesting rewrite of God's word. Interesting, but not surprising. What you claim about confession is true about repenting and being baptized; but that you reject.

 

[Fred]

No, miracles come only in the work of the Holy Spirit of falling upon you (fills you) in an act separate and distinct from the work of the Holy Spirit indwelling you.

When the Holy Spirit fell on those in Acts 2:4 is when they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jim]

When the Holy Spirit fell on those in Acts 2:4 is when they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

That was not indwelling. Falling upon and dwelling in are two separate and distinct works of the Holy Spirit. Falling upon is not salvic; indwelling is. Indwelling does not enable miraculous action, falling upon does.

Acts 1:5 and Acts 1:8 present two separate prophecies.