Jesus didn't know he was God-John 20:17, Paul didn't know Jesus was God-1Cor 8:6--only the darkness believes Jesus is God.
Romans 10:11 - Does 'him' refer to the Father or to the Lord Jesus?
- Thread starter Fred
- Start date
Evasion to the question I asked you in post 9.
Thanks for the laugh.
Perhaps you can try getting one of the Grandpoobahs from your local Kingdom Hall to help you out.
The way to worship Father is by testifying about His nature in obedience to God's law, and the Son is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), so that is identical to the way to worship the Son. If the Son were anything less than the exact image of God's nature, then worshiping him would have been idolatry. What matters is the nature of the being that we are testifying about, not the label that we use to refer to Him. For example, if someone is worshiping a being by honoring their parents, then what difference does it make if they refer to that being as the Father or the Son?
The JW's teach this is not to be done.
They may teach that, but that doesn't address the issue that I raised. If three people worship the being that God's law was given to teach us how to worship, then what difference does it make if one person refers to that being as the Father, the second refers to that being as the Son, and the third never uses a label to refer to that being?
Doesn't have to since this is the JW section and they (1) do not worship Jesus; and (2) do not believe He is God.
Thus, you are way off topic.
Fly your kite somewhere else.
Jesus has a God-John 20:17--God does not have a God- 1+1= Jesus is not God, thus does not get worship.
Please answer my question.
Wrangler
Well-known member
No commentary? Just post a verse, side stepping the contemptible act of BOTH, bashing denominations AND ignoring the verse I cited, Phillipians 4:8.
Goof grief.
You don't accept what Greek lexicons say about who Jesus is so don't make it like you would believe anything else I quoted from.
Get real.
Yeah, another goof on your part.
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Since Keiw1 has put on his disappearing act when seeing the question asked in post 9, I think it is important for any possible future JW response from someone else to bear something in mind before answering the question. That is, he/she should realize the confusion by the JW's in other texts within the Book of Colossians.
Colossians 1:22
he has now reconciled by means of that one’s fleshly body through his death, in order to present you holy and unblemished and open to no accusation before him (New World Translation)
To whom does the singular "him" refer to in Colossians 1:22?
Jesus Christ
The Watchtower: They have faith that Jesus Christ is God's Son and is their Lord whose words and examples they must follow unswervingly. That they may be "open to no accusation before him,” they do like the Colossians: they “continue in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast.” The apostle Paul told the Colossian Christians that he rejoiced at "the firmness of your faith toward Christ." (Col. 1:22, 23; 2:5) (Telling of the Good News Bearing Fruit World Wide, November 15, 1973, page 692)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1973843
God
The Watchtower: But now, having put faith in Jesus’ sacrifice and with our minds no longer on works that are wicked, we stand basically in a “holy and unblemished” state, "open to no accusation before [God]." (Colossians 1: 21, 22) (Jehovah Can Make You Powerful, December 15, 1994, page 12)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1994924
Colossians 1:29
To this end I am indeed working hard, exerting myself with his strength that is operating powerfully within me. (New World Translation)
To whom does the singular "his" refer to in Colossians 1:29?
The Son of God
The Watchtower: In fact, the Son of God "sustains all things by the word of his power."—Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:17, 29. (Questions From Readers, November 15, 1987, page 29)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1987848
Jehovah
The Watchtower: We pray every day that Jehovah continues to give us emotional and physical strength needed to carry out our ministry. The joy of the Lord is our strength. It makes our eyes shine and convinces us that we have made the right choices in life as we spread Bible truth—Eph. 3:7; Col. 1:29. (I Have Seen the Power of Bible Truth, December 15, 2010, page 30)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010927
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I don't see a question
You are dodging post 9 anyway so it doesn't matter.
Here's more contradictory teaching from the Jehovah's Witnesses:
1 John 3:2
Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is. (New World Translation)
1 John 3:2
My dear friends, we are now God's children, but it is not yet clear what we shall become. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he really is. (Today's English Version is now the Good News Translation; see the very bottom of this post)
The Jehovah's Witnesses affirm here that the expression when he is made manifest is not in reference to Jesus, but to Jehovah God.
The Watchtower: At times the conscientious translator may feel justified in adding a word or two to make the meaning clear. However, there is always the danger, when this is done, of misleading the reader. Thus in an attempt to aid the reader the translator of Today's English Version replaced "he" with Christ at 1 John 3:2. However, in this he erred, for Jehovah God and not Jesus Christ is here referred to, even as is clear from the preceding verse 1Jo 3:1. (Choosing a Modern Bible Translation, June 1, 1969, page 331)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1969402
A little more than 15 years later the Jehovah's Witness contradicted themselves by now asserting that it does refer to Jesus!
The Watchtower: In his first letter, John warns against “antichrist,” and tells Christians to remain in union with Christ while awaiting His “presence” and His manifestation. (1 John 2:18, 28; 3:2) (Happy Are Those Found Watching!, December 1, 1984, page 12)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1984882
Even during the time when Charles Taze Russell ran the show, 1 John 3:2 was in reference to Jesus:
Watch Tower Reprints: We are still actually in the flesh, however, (and hence the warfare,) and we can only discern the presence of Christ in the spiritual body, by faith. The only light in the typical holy place, was from the lamp; so we walk in the light of the lamp, by faith. This walking by faith must continue until we cease to be in the flesh actually, as we are now counted; or in other words, until we are changed, and made like Him, and then we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2. When He appears to the world, we shall appear with Him. (Expedient for You, May 1880, Vol 1, No. 11, page 102)
The Good News Translation (GNT), formerly called the Good News Bible or Today's English Version, was first published as a full Bible in 1976 by the American Bible Society as a “common language” Bible.
Good News Translation (GNT) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com
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Only the 144,000 are going to heaven. Only they are bought from the earth( Rev 14:3) Some of the NT is only written to the 144,000.You are dodging post 9 anyway so it doesn't matter.
Here's more contradictory teaching from the Jehovah's Witnesses:
1 John 3:2
Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is. (New World Translation)
1 John 3:2
My dear friends, we are now God's children, but it is not yet clear what we shall become. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he really is. (Today's English Version is now the Good News Translation; see the very bottom of this post)
The Jehovah's Witnesses affirm here that the expression when he is made manifest is not in reference to Jesus, but to Jehovah God.
The Watchtower: At times the conscientious translator may feel justified in adding a word or two to make the meaning clear. However, there is always the danger, when this is done, of misleading the reader. Thus in an attempt to aid the reader the translator of Today's English Version replaced "he" with Christ at 1 John 3:2. However, in this he erred, for Jehovah God and not Jesus Christ is here referred to, even as is clear from the preceding verse 1Jo 3:1. (Choosing a Modern Bible Translation, June 1, 1969, page 331)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1969402
A little more than 15 years later the Jehovah's Witness contradicted themselves by now asserting that it does refer to Jesus!
The Watchtower: In his first letter, John warns against “antichrist,” and tells Christians to remain in union with Christ while awaiting His “presence” and His manifestation. (1 John 2:18, 28; 3:2) (Happy Are Those Found Watching!, December 1, 1984, page 12)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1984882
Even during the time when Charles Taze Russell ran the show, 1 John 3:2 was in reference to Jesus:
Watch Tower Reprints: We are still actually in the flesh, however, (and hence the warfare,) and we can only discern the presence of Christ in the spiritual body, by faith. The only light in the typical holy place, was from the lamp; so we walk in the light of the lamp, by faith. This walking by faith must continue until we cease to be in the flesh actually, as we are now counted; or in other words, until we are changed, and made like Him, and then we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2. When He appears to the world, we shall appear with Him. (Expedient for You, May 1880, Vol 1, No. 11, page 102)
The Good News Translation (GNT), formerly called the Good News Bible or Today's English Version, was first published as a full Bible in 1976 by the American Bible Society as a “common language” Bible.
Good News Translation (GNT) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com
www.biblegateway.com
1 John 3:2
Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is. (New World Translation)
To whom do the underlined pronouns refer to?
jw.org will answer you
They sure did.
1 John 3:2 is in reference to Jesus
Philippians Study Notes—Chapter 3: They will receive spirit bodies that are incorruptible, having immortality. (1Co 15:42-44, 53; see study note on 1Co 15:38.) In that way, their humble, imperfect human body will be replaced with one that is “like” (lit., “conformed to”) Christ's glorious body.—Ro 8:14-18; 1Jo 3:2. (See Philippians 3:21)
1 John 3:2 is in reference to Jehovah
Matthew Study Notes—Chapter 5: When resurrected to spirit life, anointed Christians will actually see Jehovah "just as he is."—1Jo 3:2. (See Matthew 5:8)
Now it's your turn to choose.
They will see God, Jesus and all the angels. Thats obvious. So exactly what kind of meaningless point do you get from your false reasonings in light of my first sentence?
Go ahead and supply the source where angels are being referred to in 1 John 3:2.
