jeremiah1five
Active Member
How can Gentiles have any light since the Light Himself was never promised to Gentiles? The Light of the world is Christ. And Joel made promise from God to give His Spirit to Israel, NOT Gentiles.
Responsibilities to God and His Christ
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jeremiah1five
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13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we [JEWS] might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:12–14.
According to Joel the prophecy and promise of the Spirit was promised to Israel.
Joel was before the Hebrew people when he prophesied the promise from God to give His Spirit to Israel, NOT Gentiles. Joel was in the presence of Jews when he promised from God to give God's Spirit to Israel.
You just love ADDING to the Bible.
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your [JEWISH] sons and your [JEWISH] daughters shall prophesy,
Your [JEWISH] old men shall dream dreams,
Your [JEWISH] young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:27–28.
It's incredible how you bastardize the Word of God when you ADD to God's Word things that are NOT there. Joel was a Hebrew prophet, and he prophesied TO ISRAEL. He was before the Hebrew people when he prophesied the Spirit promised by God to Israel.
brightfame52
Active Member
I showed you, by their Covenant Head Isa 42-6
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Lk 2 32
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
brightfame52
Active Member
What does Gal 3:13-14 say? That who might receive the promise of the Spirit? That the Blessing of Abraham might come on Who ? What is the Blessing of Abraham here in this context?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Yes, Gentiles will be the glory of thy people Israel:
When they inherit the heathen.
8 Ask of me,
And I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron;
Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
Psalms 2:8–9.
The meek shall inherit the earth, too.
Guess who gets broken with a rod of iron?
The heathen.
Turnabout is fair play when Israel stands above ALL nations/families of the earth as prophesied by God and Israel is no longer attack by her neighbors.
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deuteronomy 7:6.
This ties in with Israel being a family who is blessed above all families on the face of the earth (Genesis 12:3.)
The God of Abraham never says things like this of Gentiles. He can't. God is loyal to only ONE people above all the rest. There's that word again: Above.
Although God and His Christ are declared the King of the Jews. And although God and His Christ are Sovereign over all creation, there is nothing in Scripture that declares the King of the Jews also King of the Gentiles. I wonder why.
Never mind. I know why.
It's because non-Hebrew Gentiles are nothing before the LORD. They are not the head nor are they the tail. They are NOTHING before the LORD.
Less than nothing and vanity.
17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.
How can the Gentiles be 'fellow-heirs' with Israel if God sees them as a nothing people?
Beg pardon. . . less than nothing.
According to Zechariah there will be no Gentiles living in the Promised Land with the Hebrew people when Jesus Christ sits on His throne and He hands out crowns for righteousness and crowns of life. Gentiles that survive Armageddon will be given all the land outside the land promised to the Hebrew people as stipulated by God in Genesis 15. Let's take a look at what happens to Gentiles after one-thousand years:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Revelation 20:7–9.
John the revelator throws icy, freezing water on the teaching that Gentiles are joint-heirs with Israel and are also saved. Saul doesn't say some Hebrews are saved. He doesn't even say a few Hebrews are saved. He says ALL Israel shall be saved.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26–27.
Jesus Himself said, "salvation is of the Jews." That's because God made covenant promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the patriarchs of Israel.
Jesus never says that salvation is of the Gentiles.
And that, too, is because God never made any covenant promises to Gentiles.
The totality of salvation is in the hands of the Jews. Saul is very clear on this point:
4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all,
God blessed for ever.
Amen.
Romans 9:4–5.
Amen.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Word of God through the Hebrew prophets is to and for the Hebrew people. Hebrew prophets wrote every "book" in the Old Testament. Even the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation is written by Jews and Jewish Christians to and for the Hebrew people.
God promised His Spirit to Israel. Israel needs the Spirit of God to be saved. God told Joel of a promise that God will give His Spirit to Israel, and this was done on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest circa AD 34, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven. For ten days the apostles were without guidance from God and until they were endued with power from on high, they were all totally "in the flesh." Everything the apostles said and did was completely a leaning on their own understanding in the vanity of their minds.
Think about that. Until God and His Christ took ownership of the New Covenant Church Jesus promised to build the apostles were rudderless and lack godly and spiritual insight into what was coming. But when the Comforter did arrive in Acts 2 the New Jerusalem Jewish Church was born, and Israel entered a new era in their covenant with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The New Covenant Church was born.
Or should I say, born again.
brightfame52
Active Member
This shows that the Gentile Mystery as Israel, Eph 2 -3
brightfame52
Active Member
The Gentiles are included and the promises are not to national ethnic Israel but Israel the chosen people in Christ, that is the Mystery of Christ Gal 3:13-14
Shared on a new thread. https://berean-apologetics.communit...ael-a-scriptural-reflection.2840/#post-205113
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jeremiah1five
Active Member
That is not the mystery Saul brings up.
The mystery is "Christ in you."
Now pay attention.
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:27.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Non-Hebrew Gentiles have no covenant with God. They are NOTHING to God.
17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.
brightfame52
Active Member
It's all the same see Ephesians 3 Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant in them
brightfame52
Active Member
The Gentiles are recipients of the Promise of the Spirit Gal 3:13-14 that is Covenant Blessing of Abraham
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Christ is Mediator of the New Covenant based on the Mosaic system of sacrifice.
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Gentiles got nothing coming of the LORD but eternal judgment.
Scripture refutes your claims
Rom 11:11–32 I say then, they did not stumble so that they fell, did they? May it never be! But by their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy. And if their trespass means riches for the world and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fullness mean? Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Therefore, inasmuch as I am apostle to the Gentiles, I promote my ministry, if somehow I may provoke my people to jealousy and save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean except life from the dead? Now if the first fruits are holy, so also is the whole batch of dough, and if the root is holy, so also are the branches. Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although you were a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them and became a sharer of the root of the olive tree’s richness, do not boast against the branches. But if you boast against them, you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off in order that I could be grafted in.” Well said! They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand firm because of faith. Do not think arrogant thoughts, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity upon those who have fallen, but upon you the kindness of God—if you continue in his kindness, for otherwise you…
Eph 2:11–22Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Rom 9:24–26us whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? As he also says in Hosea, “I will call those who were not my people, ‘My people,’ and those who were not loved, ‘Loved.’ And it will be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”
Isa 49:6And he says, “It is trivial for you to be a servant for me, to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel. I will give you as a light to the nations, to be my salvation to the end of the earth.”
Acts 13:47–48For so the Lord has commanded us: ‘I have appointed you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you would bring salvation to the end of the earth.’ And when the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of the Lord. And all those who were designated for eternal life believed.
Acts 15:7–9And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”
brightfame52
Active Member
Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant which is the Everlasting Covenant set forth in time.
brightfame52
Active Member
Not the Gentiles of Gal 3:13-14 ; Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen[Gentiles ]through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. You still can't provide me a Scripture of God making covenant with a non-Hebrew Gentile, nor can you tell me his name.
The original prophecy or promise is in the Old Testament. If you can't provide me proof the New Testament is saying the same thing as the Old Testament and post the Scripture reference from the New Testament that supports the Old Testament, then whatever you are posting in the New Testament doesn't have an Old Testament precedence and your "beliefs" fall short against the Old Testament truth.
The New Testament writings of the apostles must be supported by the Old Testament or else your beliefs as to what the New Testament says is wrong. I keep telling you, but you don't listen.
Christians, scholars, theologians, and Bible teachers that add anything to the Old Testament record after the fact of their closure - such as Gentiles being saved - does not teach the truth of God and should be rejected immediately as false. That's how the true Church treats New Testament heresy. They attack it immediately with the Old Testament. In my bible studies, professors repeatedly instructed me to write a thesis on an Old Testament doctrine and then find the New Testament reference that explains it. It was a study on "Type and Shadow." This is the hermeneutical method of biblical interpretation that even the writers of the New Testament letters to the churches in Asia Minor obeyed and taught us to follow and obey as well. Case in point.....
The Old Testament identifies Israel as a "great congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle, Moses, Joshua and later, with David and Solomon. This is called [a] "shadow." Then we are supposed to find the New Testament equivalent, or "type", and connect them both through New Testament Scripture. We did this with some of the major "shadows" in the Old Testament such as the Old Testament passages that speak of the "shewbread" or the "candlesticks" in the Tabernacle that the Old Testament speaks of and this led us to find the equivalent or "type" in the New Testament, such as when Jesus called Himself the "Bread of Life" or "the Light of the world" (John 10.)
Then, our professors gave us what seemed to be an easy study. We were instructed to take several references in the New Testament of non-Hebrew Gentiles being included in the covenants in the Old Testament and to take the doctrine in Christianity today of New Testament references or "types" of their being born-again and saved and find their equivalent or "shadow" in the Old Testament. Guess what happened. None of us was able to find the Old Testament "shadow" or basis of the teaching and interpretation in the New Testament and connect that to the Old Testament. We could not find any Old Testament "shadow" of non-Hebrew Gentiles being saved or included in any of the Hebrew covenants nor any Old Testament references of Gentiles being under the Law of Moses, specifically, the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants where Gentiles were saved by virtue of merely being in any covenant with God for their salvation.
And then, for a study that would make up 90% of our grade we were tasked with scouring the Old Testament for Scripture where God promised His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles, and again, we couldn't find any passage, promise, or prophecy, in the Old Testament of God giving His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
So, what did this teach us as Christians today? Well, think about that for a second. A person's salvation required the Holy Spirit to be born again, but how can a non-Hebrew Gentile be born again in the New Testament epistles if God never promised them His Spirit in order to be saved? We could take New Testament Scripture of Jesus being tied to the Tabernacle, such as the body of Christ being recorded in the Old Testament as the Tabernacle and Jesus' claims to being the "Bread of Life" and the "Light of the world" being represented in the Old Testament "shewbread" and "candlesticks" in the Tabernacle. But to find non-Hebrew Gentiles included in the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants we couldn't find any Scripture in the Old Testament. We couldn't find any Scripture in the Old Testament where God promised non-Hebrew Gentiles His Spirit, which you should know is required for being born again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel's prophecy.
What did all this mean?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Yes, He is. But there were no non-Hebrew Gentiles being represented at His table at His last Passover in the upper room. There were thirteen Jews representing twelve tribes of Israel with Christ as the Tabernacle or body.
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