Refuting effectually caused faith

[brightfame52]

@Richard

Jesus is God Incarnate is. Jesus is God in human form

Okay, agreed, now was that hard to do ?

I trust that Jesus as Christ can do what he says he can do, that he can save us from all of our sin. That's what it means to believe in Jesus, and everyone who believes that about Jesus has been born of God.

Heres whtat the Angel said He Jesus shall do Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—​

I disagree here, the Jesus the scripture sets forth has reconciled men to God by His Death for them, not that He can Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

See that ?We were reconciled to God, not we could be reconciled to God. Thats the Gospel

Also 2 Cor 519

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Also reconciliation entails non imputation of sins ! Do you know what that is ? Its a Gospel Truth

He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone​

Thats false friend, that goes against what the Angel stated Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus also stated very succinctly Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

The Sheep and His People in Matt 1:21 are the same ! This is Gospel Truth friend

And His Death for them actually saved them completely, thats the good News Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Anything less than this isnt the Gospel of Jesus !

 

[brightfame52]

Sanctification of the Spirit must and does precede Faith or belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Faith in Salvation is only produced by the Holy Spirit and its part of His Sanctification work, Faith indicates we have been set apart or sanctified inwardly, and its in conjunction with the Word of God, the Gospel, as Jesus prayed for here Jn 17:17-20
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

So the Spirits Sanctifying work is in answer to Jesus prayer, and it ensures that all for whom He died believes

 

[Complete]

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:'
(Eph 2:8)

Hello @brightfame52,

Faith is not the gift: salvation itself is the gift of God; for it is a grace-by-faith salvation that is received the moment we believe in God's only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Richard]

@Richard

Okay, agreed, now was that hard to do ?

Heres whtat the Angel said He Jesus shall do Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Sharing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is never hard.

Jesus just didn't die for a limited number of people , but for the world. John 3:16

There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus. He gave his life to purchase freedom "for everyone". This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.​

1 Timothy 2:5-6​

 

[Complete]

'And when there had been much disputing,
Peter rose up, and said unto them,
..Men and brethren,
.... ye know how that a good while ago
...... God made choice among us,
.........that the Gentiles by my mouth
............ should hear the word of the gospel,
.............. and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost, even as He did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God,
to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples,
which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ
we shall be saved, even as they.'
(Act 15:7-11)

Praise God!

 

[brightfame52]

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:'
(Eph 2:8)

Hello @brightfame52,

Faith is not the gift: salvation itself is the gift of God; for it is a grace-by-faith salvation that is received the moment we believe in God's only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Faith is a Gift in that scripture,it comes with Grace ! You are promoting works salvation

 

[brightfame52]

@Richard

Sharing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is never hard.

From what I read of your posts, you dont share the Christ of Matt 1:21

 

[brightfame52]

@Complete

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost, even as He did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith.

That should clue you on that Faith isn't of man but the Gift of God since it purifies the heart. Does the natural mans faith purify his heart ? Can a natural man say I have made my heart pure by my faith Prov 20:9

Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

In Acts 15 9 it was God doing the action, purifyig their hearts by Spirit given Faith, it doesnt say they they were purifying their own hearts by their faith.

Thats works and boasting in the flesh.

 

[brightfame52]

By the Law/Principle of Faith,

Rom 3:27

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
How does the Law of Faith exclude works ? Because Faith in Justification is given by Grace
Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

The Word of God says that no man can boast in his salvation, for any and all boasting is excluded because of the law, or principle, of faith. If salvation were by works then man would have a right to boast. However, salvation is not according to works because the principle of faith rules out any boasting on man’s part that he has done anything, or contributed anything to his own salvation.

Faith shows the individual to already be Justified by what Christ has done, whereas human faith is of the law of works, meaning its something we do to get/cause God to Justify us, instead of what Christ alone did to justify us.

 

[civic]

We believe, are made believers from unbelief because God shows us Mercy, as He did with Paul who was a Pattern set forth 1 Tim 1:13-16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

man is responsible to believe as Jesus taught below He doesn't say the faith I gave you has saved you. You add that to scripture


Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

 

[brightfame52]

man is responsible to believe as Jesus taught below He doesn't say the faith I gave you has saved you. You add that to scripture


Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

We believe, are made believers from unbelief because God shows us Mercy, as He did with Paul who was a Pattern set forth 1 Tim 1:13-16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Note: Christ saves sinners from ignorance and unbelief !

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[civic]

We believe, are made believers from unbelief because God shows us Mercy, as He did with Paul who was a Pattern set forth 1 Tim 1:13-16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Note: Christ saves sinners from ignorance and unbelief !

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

your interpretation fails the truth test with all the scriptures I quoted from Jesus who exposes your false ideas.

 

[Richard]

@Richard

From what I read of your posts, you dont share the Christ of Matt 1:21

And why is that? His people are all who believe or will believe in Him. Not just a select few as taught in Calvinism.

“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.” (1 Cor. 13:4-8)


No Bible believing Christian questions the truth that “God is love” . “The Lord is gracious and merciful; Slow to anger and great in loving-kindness. The Lord is good to all, And His mercies are over all His works.”. This biblical truth is simply undeniable, which is why many Calvinists do not share Christ and His message of salvation.

Now, we know that Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law in every way (Matt. 5:17-18), which would have to include the greatest commandment. Christ’s self-sacrificial love for His enemies was certainly as encompassing as what He demanded from His followers in Luke 10. Without a doubt, Jesus loved everyone, even His greatest, most undeserving enemies; otherwise, He would have failed to fulfill the demands of the law.

The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

2 Peter 3:9​

 

[brightfame52]

your interpretation fails the truth test with all the scriptures I quoted from Jesus who exposes your false ideas.

We believe, are made believers from unbelief because God shows us Mercy, as He did with Paul who was a Pattern set forth 1 Tim 1:13-16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Note: Christ saves sinners from ignorance and unbelief !

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[brightfame52]

@Richard

And why is that? His people are all who believe or will believe in Him. Not just a select few as taught in Calvinism.

I already told you, read

 

[civic]

We believe, are made believers from unbelief because God shows us Mercy, as He did with Paul who was a Pattern set forth 1 Tim 1:13-16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Note: Christ saves sinners from ignorance and unbelief !

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul taught one one have their own personal belief in Christ to be saved. He also taught faith comes before the new birth.

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?
Calvinism has it backwards with life,regeneration, the new birth preceding faith.

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life


Hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

Paul taught one one have their own personal belief in Christ to be saved. He also taught faith comes before the new birth.

Hope this helps !!!

We believe, are made believers from unbelief because God shows us Mercy, as He did with Paul who was a Pattern set forth 1 Tim 1:13-16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Note: Christ saves sinners from ignorance and unbelief !

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[civic]

See my last post which refutes you post with plenty of scripture to prove you are incorrect.

 

[Richard]

@Richard



I already told you, read

Follow you own advice, read.

And why is that? His people are all who believe or will believe in Him. Not just a select few as taught in Calvinism.

“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.” (1 Cor. 13:4-8)


No Bible believing Christian questions the truth that “God is love” . “The Lord is gracious and merciful; Slow to anger and great in loving-kindness. The Lord is good to all, And His mercies are over all His works.”. This biblical truth is simply undeniable, which is why many Calvinists do not share Christ and His message of salvation.

Now, we know that Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law in every way (Matt. 5:17-18), which would have to include the greatest commandment. Christ’s self-sacrificial love for His enemies was certainly as encompassing as what He demanded from His followers in Luke 10. Without a doubt, Jesus loved everyone, even His greatest, most undeserving enemies; otherwise, He would have failed to fulfill the demands of the law.

The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

2 Peter 3:9​

 

[brightfame52]

Follow you own advice, read.

2 Peter 3:9​

From what I read of your posts, you dont share the Christ of Matt 1:21