Refuting effectually caused faith

Nope not faith
Salvation is for the heirs and they are given Faith Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
As Heirs they are allotted Faith as part of their Inheritance 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
 
Salvation is for the heirs and they are given Faith Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
As Heirs they are allotted Faith as part of their Inheritance 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Believers

Next
 
A Person is an heir before they are a believer. Was Isaac a heir before or after he was born ? Gen 15 4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Nice try cherry picking and running all over the place
 
Nice try cherry picking and running all over the place
A Person is an heir before they are a believer. Was Isaac a heir before or after he was born ? Gen 15 4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
 
A Person is an heir before they are a believer. Was Isaac a heir before or after he was born ? Gen 15 4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
In Genesis 15:4, the context is the account of God's covenant with Abram (later renamed Abraham). God had promised Abram that he would have descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky (Genesis 15:5) and that his offspring would inherit the land of Canaan (Genesis 15:7).

In verse 4, God speaks to Abram, reassuring him of the fulfillment of this promise. At this point in the narrative, Abram did not yet have a biological heir, as he and his wife Sarai (later renamed Sarah) were elderly and childless. God tells Abram that his biological descendant, one who would come from his own body, would be his heir. This reaffirms the promise of a future descendant, which would later be fulfilled through the birth of Isaac, Abraham's son, in Genesis 21.

So, to directly address the question, Isaac was indeed an heir before he was born. The promise of Isaac's birth and his status as Abraham's heir was given by God to Abraham before Isaac's actual birth.
 
In Genesis 15:4, the context is the account of God's covenant with Abram (later renamed Abraham). God had promised Abram that he would have descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky (Genesis 15:5) and that his offspring would inherit the land of Canaan (Genesis 15:7).

In verse 4, God speaks to Abram, reassuring him of the fulfillment of this promise. At this point in the narrative, Abram did not yet have a biological heir, as he and his wife Sarai (later renamed Sarah) were elderly and childless. God tells Abram that his biological descendant, one who would come from his own body, would be his heir. This reaffirms the promise of a future descendant, which would later be fulfilled through the birth of Isaac, Abraham's son, in Genesis 21.

So, to directly address the question, Isaac was indeed an heir before he was born. The promise of Isaac's birth and his status as Abraham's heir was given by God to Abraham before Isaac's actual birth.

Geesh. The only Eternal heir of Abraham was Jesus Christ.

You have just dishonored Jesus Christ by insist that Calvinists are chosen just like Isaac.

There is ONLY ONE SEED.... "SINGULAR"....

If you knew your Bible you wouldn't be "waffling" like you are. If you are still learning, then why are you try to teach?

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
 
Geesh. The only Eternal heir of Abraham was Jesus Christ.

You have just dishonored Jesus Christ by insist that Calvinists are chosen just like Isaac.

There is ONLY ONE SEED.... "SINGULAR"....

If you knew your Bible you wouldn't be "waffling" like you are. If you are still learning, then why are you try to teach?

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Yes they leave out the One true Heir.
 
Martin Luther
Saving faith is distinct from every works-righteous system because it isn’t the result of human effort. In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Our response in salvation is faith, but even that is “not of [ourselves], it is the gift of God.” Faith is nothing that we do in our own power or by our own resources. In the first place, we do not have adequate power or resources. Moreover, God would not want us to rely on them even if we had them. Otherwise salvation would be in part by our own works, and we would have some ground to boast in ourselves. Paul’s emphasis in Ephesians 2:8 is that even faith does not come from us apart from God’s giving it. Human effort has nothing to do with it (cf.Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16), and thus no one should boast, as if he contributed any part.

Got Questions
Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to His people. God gives faith because of His grace and mercy, because He loves us (Ephesians 4—5). Faith comes from God in the form of a gift (Ephesians 2:8).


Pulpit Commentary
And that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Which of the two things is meant - salvation or faith? The grammatical structure and the analogy of the passage favor the former view, "Your salvation is not of yourselves," though many able men have taken the latter. The apostle is so anxious to bring out the great distinguishing doctrine of grace that he puts it in all lights, affirms it positively, contrasts it with its opposite, and emphasizes it by repetition. It is a gift, not a purchase; a free gift, without money and without price; what would never have been yours, but for the generosity of God. It is very usual in the New Testament thus to represent salvation; cf. our Lord's words to Nicodemus (John 3:16); to the woman of Samaria (John 4:14); St. Paul's "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift" (2 Corinthians 9:15); "The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23); and 1 John 5:11, "God gave unto us eternal life, and the life is in his Son." This usage confirms the view that it is not merely faith, but the whole work and person of Christ which faith receives, that is meant here as the "gift of God."

Meyer's NT Commentary
καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν κ.τ.λ.] Nothing is here to be treated as parenthesis; neither the whole καὶ τοῦτο down to ἔργων, Ephesians 2:9 (Griesbach, Scholz), nor merely Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον (Lachmann, Harless, de Wette), since neither the construction nor the course of thought is interrupted. καὶ τοῦτο is referred by the Fathers in Suicer, Thes. II. p. 728, Erasmus, Beza, Grotius, Estius, Wolf, Bengel, Michaelis, and others, including Koppe, Rosenmüller, Flatt, Meier, Baumgarten-Crusius, Bisping, to the faith (τὸ πιστεύειν), comp. Php 1:29; 2 Corinthians 4:14. In that case καὶ τοῦτο … δῶρον would have to be taken parenthetically. But how violent is this taking to pieces of the text, since οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων present themselves in a manner alike natural and weighty as elements belonging to one flow of the discourse! Rightly, therefore, have Calvin, Calovius, Baumgarten, Semler, Zachariae, Morus, and others, including Rückert, Matthies, Holzhausen, Harless, de Wette, Schenkel, Bleek, referred it to the salvation just designated as regards its specific mode. Paul very earnestly and emphatically enters into more detailed explanations as to what he had just said, τῇ γὰρ χάριτι κ.τ.λ., namely to the effect, that he briefly and forcibly places in the light of the respective contrasts, first, that objective element of the saving deliverance which has taken place (τῇ χάριτι) by οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον, and then the subjective element (διὰ τῆς πίστεως), by οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἵνα μ. τ. καυχ. His thought is: “Through grace you are in possession of salvation by means of faith, and that to the exclusion of your own causation and operative agency.” This latter he expresses with the vivacity and force of contrast thus: “and that (καὶ τοῦτο, see on Romans 3:11) not from you, it is God’s gift; not from works, in order that no one may boast.” The asyndetic juxtaposition takes place with a “propria quadam vi, alacritate, gravitate,” Dissen, Exc. II. ad Pind. p. 273.
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

Many great expositors, Calvin at the head of them, accordingly take “that” to refer to the main previous idea, and “through faith” to be a separate inserted thought. Alford, who takes this view, states the case for it briefly and well. Nevertheless we recommend the other explanation, and for the following simple reason: the phrase “and that” (lit., “and this”) is familiar in N.T. Greek to introduce an addition of thought, enforcing or heightening what has gone before. See 1 Corinthians 6:6; 1 Corinthians 6:8; “and that before the unbelievers;” “and that, your brethren;” Php 1:28; Hebrews 11:12, (A.V., “and him, &c.”). But if it here refers only to the general previous idea, gratuitous salvation, it is hard to see what new force of thought it adds to the words “by grace.” If on the other hand it refers to the last special statement, “through faith,” there is a real additional point in the assertion that even the act of believing is a gift of God; for thus precisely the one link in the process where the man might have thought he acted alone, and where therefore, in St Paul’s sense, he might claim to “boast,” is claimed for God. Let the clauses, “and that, not of you; God’s is the gift,” be taken as a parenthesis, and the point of the interpretation will be clear; while the Greek amply admits the arrangement.

That “faith” is a matter of Divine gift is clear from e. g. 2 Corinthians 4:13; Php 1:29. Not that a new faculty of trust is implanted, but gracious manifestations—of the soul’s need and the Saviour’s glory—prevail upon the will to choose to repose trust in the right Object. The “gift” of faith is but one phase of the Divine action which (Php 2:13) “worketh in us to will.” And it may be said to be one aspect of the “gift of repentance” (Acts 5:31; 2 Timothy 2:25), for repentance is no mere preliminary to faith; it is the whole complex “change of mind” which includes faith.

Bengel's Gnomen
Ephesians 2:8. Τῃ—χάριτι) τῇ has a relative meaning, in reference to Ephesians 2:5, χάριτι.—γὰρ, for) He does not say, therefore, but for, because he concludes [infers] from the effect to the cause.—διὰ τῆς πίστεως, by faith) which arises from the resurrection of Christ, chap. Ephesians 1:19,[23] [whence it is not at all mentioned in Ephesians 2:5, but for the first time in Ephesians 2:8. See Colossians 2:12.—V. g.] The antithesis is, not of works; an antithesis of the same kind as that between grace and boasting [“lest any man should boast”].—καὶ τοῦτο) and this, namely, believing, or faith, is not of yourselves. The antithesis is: this is the gift of God alone.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
8. For—illustrating "the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness." Translate as in Eph 2:5, "Ye are in a saved state."
through faith—the effect of the power of Christ's resurrection (Eph 1:19, 20; Php 3:10) whereby we are "raised together" with Him (Eph 2:6; Col 2:12). Some of the oldest manuscripts read, "through your (literally, 'the') faith." The instrument or mean of salvation on the part of the person saved; Christ alone is the meritorious agent.

and that—namely, the act of believing, or "faith." "Of yourselves" stands in opposition to, "it is the gift of God" (Php 1:29). "That which I have said, 'through faith,' I do not wish to be understood so as if I excepted faith itself from grace" [Estius]. "God justifies the believing man, not for the worthiness of his belief, but for the worthiness of Him in whom he believes" [Hooker]. The initiation, as well as the increase, of faith, is from the Spirit of God, not only by an external proposal of the word, but by internal illumination in the soul [Pearson]. Yet "faith" cometh by the means which man must avail himself of, namely, "hearing the word of God" (Ro 10:17), and prayer (Lu 11:13), though the blessing is wholly of God (1Co 3:6, 7).

So which on @TomL? Don't quote commentaries selectively to steel man you case, to "win" a point over your opponent-is faith a gift-or not?
I already told you.

Salvation is the gift

Two argument I have posted remain unanswered

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

verse 9

Ephesians 2:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

makes sense if salvation is in view

it does not make sense if faith is in view and the word gift is singular

Salvation is not of works is a thoroughly Pauline argument

That faith is not the results of works is an argument no one would ever make

Add to the that the fact we are told

Salvation - eternal life is the gift

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Quoting Calvinist affirming a Calvinist understanding is worth little

Quoting Calvinists denying the usual Calvinist view is much more persausive.
 
I already told you.

Salvation is the gift

Two argument I have posted remain unanswered

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

verse 9

Ephesians 2:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

makes sense if salvation is in view

it does not make sense if faith is in view and the word gift is singular

Salvation is not of works is a thoroughly Pauline argument

That faith is not the results of works is an argument no one would ever make

Add to the that the fact we are told

Salvation - eternal life is the gift

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Quoting Calvinist affirming a Calvinist understanding is worth little

Quoting Calvinists denying the usual Calvinist view is much more persausive.
To be honest-you are not posting anything new I don't already know. Not being prideful or facetious.
 
I already told you.

Salvation is the gift

Two argument I have posted remain unanswered

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.

verse 9

Ephesians 2:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

makes sense if salvation is in view

it does not make sense if faith is in view and the word gift is singular

Salvation is not of works is a thoroughly Pauline argument

That faith is not the results of works is an argument no one would ever make

Add to the that the fact we are told

Salvation - eternal life is the gift

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Quoting Calvinist affirming a Calvinist understanding is worth little

Quoting Calvinists denying the usual Calvinist view is much more persausive.
Ephesians 2:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.
 
Ephesians 2:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.
you skipped over verse 9 and did not address the issue

verse 10 speaks of the good works of the saved and does not speak of saving faith
 
We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

His workmanship. Created in Christ Jesus.
again speaks of the good works of the saved

The good works of the saved is a result of God working in them

Verse 9 is still is left unaddressed as was my other argument

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.
 
Maybe you should show him the Greek text-he can't read Greek-I know.
If he can't read Greek, then that wouldn't help. But the Young's Literal Translation is a literal translation of the Greek:

10 for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.
 
again speaks of the good works of the saved

The good works of the saved is a result of God working in them

Verse 9 is still is left unaddressed as was my other argument

if faith is a gift from God, how could demonic activity restrict the faith of some (Luke 8:12; 2 Cor 4:4)? Why is it harder for some people to believe than others (cf. Titus 1:12-13)? What would be the point of the drawing work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44; 12:32), or of evangelism and missions? Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)? None of these questions have good answers if faith is a gift of God.
Yes, we are created in Christ Jesus to do good works.
 
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