Why do you hold back? (sarc)
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Where'd you get irresistably- must be a Calvinist.
Whether you like it or not faith cometh by HEARING and HEARING by the WORD OF GOD. Go argue with the Bible.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Technically, some translations say WORD OF GOD and some say WORD OF CHRIST. But hearing comes by the word of God/Christ. If you have no hearing (i.e., God/Christ has not opened your ears), then the sound waves of the Gospel will not produce faith.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Rockson
Yes, even though the immediate context isnt salvific, nevertheless it was signifying that gentiles would be given covenant Faith, they were included in the New Covenant Mercies of Israel Heb 8:10-12
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Yes, even though the immediate context isnt salvific, nevertheless it was signifying that gentiles would be given covenant Faith, they were included in the New Covenant Mercies of Israel Heb 8:10-12
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Rockson
Well-known member
So now you're changing your tune. You said FAITH is the gift of God and belonged only to Israel a covenant people and now you're saying this Gentile had a faith before a time even Gentiles "would be given" a place in the New Covenant of Israel. Why don't you just admit you're just making things up as you go along?
brightfame52
Well-known member
I haven't changed, Israel of the New Covenant is the Church, the Body of Christ, , in fact Spiritual Israel under the old covenant is the Church Rom 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
sorry
Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 2:37–38 (NASB 2020) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what are we to do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The bible does not support your do nothing theology
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is a Covenant Blessing !
Faith is one of the laws that God in the New Covenant promised to write in the hearts of His Elect People, for instance Jer 31:31-33
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Which law includes the law of Faith Rom 3:27
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Faith is the Covenant Gift of God Eph 2:8-9
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
When Paul exhorted the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ that he might be saved, God enabled the jailer to believe Life and power is conveyed to the soul in Gospel Commands and Exhortations.
Believing in Christ is given/caused by Grace Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given charizomai which comes from the word grace and means:
to give graciously, give freely, bestow so Grace is bestowed to cause believing. Like when sight is given Lk 7 21
21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
When Paul exhorted the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ that he might be saved, God enabled the jailer to believe Life and power is conveyed to the soul in Gospel Commands and Exhortations.
Believing in Christ is given/caused by Grace Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given charizomai which comes from the word grace and means:
to give graciously, give freely, bestow so Grace is bestowed to cause believing. Like when sight is given Lk 7 21
21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
sorry
Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 2:37–38 (NASB 2020) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what are we to do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The bible does not support your do nothing theology
Sorry that is not found in the passage. You adding your theology to it
The phillipians were granted faith in this manner
Acts 16:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. 11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
Paul received a vision and as a result went and preached the gospel
as scripture states
Romans 10:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is a Covenant Blessing !
Faith is one of the laws that God in the New Covenant promised to write in the hearts of His Elect People, for instance Jer 31:31-33
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Which law includes the law of Faith Rom 3:27
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Faith is the Covenant Gift of God Eph 2:8-9
brightfame52
Well-known member
When Paul exhorted the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ that he might be saved, God enabled the jailer to believe Life and power is conveyed to the soul in Gospel Commands and Exhortations.
Believing in Christ is given/caused by Grace Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given charizomai which comes from the word grace and means:
to give graciously, give freely, bestow so Grace is bestowed to cause believing. Like when sight is given Lk 7 21
21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
More: The word given charizomai in Phil 1:29 is the exact same word freely give in Rom 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
So all for whom Christ was delivered up for, with Him they will be given freely with Him to believe on Him.
Sorry that is not found in the passage. You adding your theology to it
The phillipians were granted faith in this manner
Acts 16:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. 11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
Paul received a vision and as a result went and preached the gospel
as scripture states
Romans 10:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
When Paul exhorted the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ that he might be saved, God enabled the jailer to believe Life and power is conveyed to the soul in Gospel Commands and Exhortations.
Believing in Christ is given/caused by Grace Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given charizomai which comes from the word grace and means:
to give graciously, give freely, bestow so Grace is bestowed to cause believing. Like when sight is given Lk 7 21
21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
More: The word given charizomai in Phil 1:29 is the exact same word freely give in Rom 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
So all for whom Christ was delivered up for, with Him they will be given freely with Him to believe on Him.
Sorry that is not found in the passage. You adding your theology to it
The phillipians were granted faith in this manner
Acts 16:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. 11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
Paul received a vision and as a result went and preached the gospel
as scripture states
Romans 10:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
When Paul exhorted the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ that he might be saved, God enabled the jailer to believe Life and power is conveyed to the soul in Gospel Commands and Exhortations.
Believing in Christ is given/caused by Grace Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given charizomai which comes from the word grace and means:
to give graciously, give freely, bestow so Grace is bestowed to cause believing. Like when sight is given Lk 7 21
21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
More: The word given charizomai in Phil 1:29 is the exact same word freely give in Rom 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
So all for whom Christ was delivered up for, with Him they will be given freely with Him to believe on Him.
Sorry that is not found in the passage. You adding your theology to it
The phillipians were granted faith in this manner
Acts 16:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. 11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis; 12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
Paul received a vision and as a result went and preached the gospel
as scripture states
Romans 10:14–17 (KJV 1900) — 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
When Paul exhorted the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ that he might be saved, God enabled the jailer to believe Life and power is conveyed to the soul in Gospel Commands and Exhortations.
Believing in Christ is given/caused by Grace Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given charizomai which comes from the word grace and means:
to give graciously, give freely, bestow so Grace is bestowed to cause believing. Like when sight is given Lk 7 21
21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
More: The word given charizomai in Phil 1:29 is the exact same word freely give in Rom 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
So all for whom Christ was delivered up for, with Him they will be given freely with Him to believe on Him.
