It doesn't work that way. If I already chose to not believe something most likely unless you present additional evidence I am not going to change my mind
Additional evidence however has changed my views on a number of things.
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Additional evidence however has changed my views on a number of things.
Yep that would be anotherJust like tulip
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
That's exactly what I've been saying all along. Believing is not a choice. You see evidence that convinces you something is true and you believe. You see contrary evidence that convinces you that what you believed is wrong, and now you believe differently. It isn't a choice. It's perceived truth.
Nobody chooses to believe the Gospel is true. God opens your eyes, ears, and heart so that you can see that it's true, and you believe.
Of course it is a choice I choose to allow the new information to change my previously held view
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
You mean, when presented with the truth, you can choose to cover your ears and shout "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". Okay, I can agree with that. That's not choosing not to believe, though. That's choosing to be ignorant. Which you free-willers do continually.
I can according to scripture suppress the truth in unrighteousness
it's scriptural
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
That's what I said. You can choose to cover your ears and shout "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". And you can spread lies to try to keep others from seeing the truth (suppress the truth in unrighteousness). But that has nothing to do with choosing to believe. If you see something that you perceive to be true, then you will believe it. Choice has nothing to do with it.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith requires spiritual understanding, but yet we by nature prior to regeneration are described here Eph 4:18
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Now Faith comes by hearing and understanding the word spiritually Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith in Christ requires a New Heart for the old heart by nature is alienated from God, and blind observe Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
So God in regeneration gives the redeemed a New Heart Ezk 36 26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
You ignored refutation to your theology
Um the unregenerate heard , received the word with joy and believed
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
so much for your doctrine they cannot believe
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith requires spiritual understanding, but yet we by nature prior to regeneration are described here Eph 4:18
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Now Faith comes by hearing and understanding the word spiritually Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Sorry it is only those with faith who receive a new heart
Spirit received through faith
John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ”
John 7:39
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Galatians 3:2
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 3:5
Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Galatians 3:14
so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 3:17
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
and one receives a new heart by the indwelling Spirit
Ezekiel 36:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Still ignoring the refutation of your theoogy
Um the unregenerate heard , received the word with joy and believed
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
so much for your doctrine they cannot believe
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Exactly.
There's "believing" and then there's salvific faith (hearing the word and UNDERSTANDING it). Look at this passage in Hebrews that some people incorrectly interpret to mean you can lose your salvation.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
That sure sounds like losing your salvation. But the very next verse contradicts that. Verses 4-8 describe people who are not saved.
9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation
So, verses 4-8 describes those seeds on the rocks that never take root. They were never saved. They had the word, experienced the blessings, but it never took root because their understanding was darkened.
That's why it's so important to see that there are two parts to this verse:
1. Faith comes by hearing
2. Hearing comes by the word of Christ/God
If God doesn't give you hearing, then you will not have salvific faith.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith in Christ requires a New Heart for the old heart by nature is alienated from God, and blind observe Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
So God in regeneration gives the redeemed a New Heart Ezk 36 26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith requires spiritual understanding, but yet we by nature prior to regeneration are described here Eph 4:18
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Now Faith comes by hearing and understanding the word spiritually Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
You have never addressed this
Um the unregenerate heard , received the word with joy and believed
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
so much for your doctrine they cannot believe
You ignored the p;oint
it is only those with faith who receive a new heart
Spirit received through faith
John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ”
John 7:39
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Galatians 3:2
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 3:5
Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Galatians 3:14
so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 3:17
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
and one receives a new heart by the indwelling Spirit
Ezekiel 36:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith requires spiritual understanding, but yet we by nature prior to regeneration are described here Eph 4:18
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Now Faith comes by hearing and understanding the word spiritually Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Only one soil heard with understanding and brought forth fruit.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith in Christ requires a New Heart for the old heart by nature is alienated from God, and blind observe Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
So God in regeneration gives the redeemed a New Heart Ezk 36 26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
