Origin of PSA

civic

Well-known member
III. The penal substitutionary view

We strongly reject, therefore, every explanation of the death of Christ which does not have at its centre the principle of ‘satisfaction through substitution’ … ‘substitution’ is not a further ‘theory’ or ‘image’ to be set alongside the others, but rather the foundation of them all, without which each lacks cogency.32a.

Penal substitutionary atonement Thomas Schreiner summarises PSA in the following terms:The penalty for sin is death. Sinners deserve eternal punishment in hell from God himself because of their sin and guilt. God’s holy anger is directed against all those who have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And yet, because of God’s great love, he sent Christ to bear the punishment ofour sins. Christ died in our place, took to himself our sin and guilt, andbore our penalty so that we might receive forgiveness of sins.33

By the time of the Reformation, feudalism had been superseded by the Roman view of criminal law, under which the only satisfaction that could be offered was punishment. Impressed by Anselm’s argument that divine justice required satisfying, Calvin and the other Reformers simply reworked it in terms of their criminal law. This resulted in a theory within which God does pass the sentence that the law demands, but carries it out on a substitute. Paul Fiddes summarisesit in the following terms:

When Calvin built a theory of atonement upon the principle of divine justice, he therefore concluded that ‘the guilt, which held us liable to punishment, was transferred to the head of the Son of God’. God’s law had been infringed through human sin, and so penalty must be inflicted upon offenders in order to maintain the moral order of the universe. In the act of atonement, Christ pays the debt to justice by bearing the necessary punishment instead of humankind.35Already, then, we are struck by a very different way of perceiving imagery of the atonement, where penal substitution functions as a ‘central hub’ from which‘all of these other doctrines fan out.’36 All the various models offer a positive contribution, but penal substitution is regarded as controlling – ‘the sine qua non of evangelical soteriology’37 and ‘a distinguishing mark of the world-wide evangelical fraternity.

The act of God is no more than an abstention from interference with their free choice and its consequence … [Paul] has therefore succeeded in disassociating the fact of retribution from any idea of an angry God visiting his displeasure upon sinful men, even though he retains the old expression‘the Wrath of God’.54Leon Morris and Grant Osborne, however, are among those who reject this‘ingenious argument’;55 God’s wrath against sin is ‘too comprehensive in Scripture to allow such a reinterpretation’.56 The idea that the wrath of God is exercised against sin ‘runs through and through the OT’ and is ‘intensely personal’.57If this is the case, though, asks Green, is it not significant that God’s wrath isnever developed in the OT in sacrificial terms and that we find no exposition of sacrifice as satisfaction or penalty?58 Finding, in Rom. 3, an implicit need to assuage God’s wrath is based on a false presumed relation of wrath, sacrifice and atonement in the OT.59Examining the role and function of sacrifice in atonement to test these points is not an entirely straight forward hermeneutical exercise. Firstly, biblical sacrifices were made not just for sin;60 sacrifice ‘is a grander idea and does not in itself require a narrative of God’s judicial wrath needing to be satisfied’.61 There is a‘kaleidoscope of images which together constitute the NT characterisation of Jesus as sacrifice’,62 as different strands of the OT language of sacrifice are applied to Jesus in different ways,63 each in its own way bearing witness to a dimension of Jesus’ work.64What then of the meaning of kipper? Penal substitution’s interpretation(propitiation) is not universally accepted. According to Jacob Milgrom, the root meaning of kipper lies in wiping off or removing, suggesting that it means ‘topurge’, to expunge impurity. Furthermore, some scholars understand He therefore sees both the Day of Atonement rituals and Rom. 3:25 in expiatory, ratherthan propitiatory, terms.65Since it seems significant that Jesus apparently chose Passover (a time for celebrating and remembering liberation) rather than the Day of Atonement (a time for atoning sins) to explicate the significance of his death,66 we will briefly consider the Passover lamb.

Though it is often assumed that penal substitution lies at the heart of the Passover, this is not self-evident. Clearly, the Passover lamb was ‘sacrificed’, atleast in modern terms, although in precisely what capacity we cannot be definitive.67 Milgrom is clear that the sacrifice of the lamb is not a sin-offering (hatta-’t);neither is the verb kipper used in the texts on the paschal observance.68 Stephen Finlan points out that the Passover sacrifice was ‘completely different from other sacrifices … having nothing to do with cleansing, forgiveness, or reparation.’69Neither is there any developed idea of sacrifice, in the manner of the later atonement offerings.Moreover, there are further problems here. If Passover was a penal substitutionary event, why was its application limited to Israel’s firstborn sons? Why notthe entire nation? Equally, if the lamb is a penal substitute to avoid Israel suffering the fate of God’s judgement against the Egyptians, it seems odd that this arrangement of protection should be required only for the final plague. The objectheretofore has been God’s punishment exclusively upon Egypt.Whatever the origins of Passover, it was understood at the time of Jesus as agift-offering of praise and thanksgiving to God for his deliverance.70 The first century Pesah was fundamentally a national celebration designed to keep freshthe memory of the exodus and reassure the people that God ‘would smite all future tyrants as he had Pharaoh’ – celebrating God’s past liberation and anticipating his future liberation.71 The ritual identifies the nation that Yahweh’s action isredeeming. Through its obedient cultus participation, Israel is ‘marked out’ asthe redeemed, distinguished from Egypt and ‘set apart’ as those upon whom hisblessing rests.72 This fits well with the meaning of pesah as ‘protection’. It was ‘aGod-given covenant meal that identified his people as exempt from judgementand ready for deliverance.’73By choosing Passover to explain his death, then, instead of the Day of Atonement, Jesus was choosing images of divine protection and liberation.74

Although the Last Supper is commonly assumed to be a Passover meal,75 supporting evidence is far from clear, and the balance of scholarship today is shifting away from that conclusion.76 Given that sacrifice in covenant ratification had no substitutionary function, let alone a penal one,77 it is notable that the Synoptics and Paul posit the Last Supper’s sacramental significance in covenantal terms.78 This does not preclude a forgiveness element, but this comes by sharingin the new Passover – entering covenant by participation in his meal, drinkingfrom his cup.79 The absence of reference to the lamb is curious, too. Why wouldJesus not have applied the more-natural theme of ‘this lamb is my body’ rather than the bread?80 If Passover had direct correspondence in Jesus’ thought, McKnight sees this as ‘a virtual soteriological necessity’.81 Accordingly, he concludes the supper took place in a Pesah setting, with Jesus turning a regular Passover week meal into ‘a kind of Pesah’.82In another key passage, the Suffering Servant of Deutero-Isaiah, a central question is whether Jesus thought of himself in these terms. Notably, in none ofthe sayings attributed to Jesus does he designate himself as the Servant. If one has this conclusion in mind already, of course, it is easy to find numerous ‘servant’ and ‘suffering’ references to support it. An important hermeneutical question here is whether a NT quotation from the OT indicates the whole original passage is to be brought to mind, or just the text quoted.83 Adopting the former view broadens the material available to support such an hypothesis.84 Otherwise, though, the verses from Isaiah cited in e.g. Matt. 8:16-17, Matt. 12:18-21and Luke 4:16-21 indicate different characteristics of Jesus and his mission. If a vicarious bearing of sin by the Servant is in mind, it is surprising this is not somewhere stated explicitly, especially in Jesus’ predictions of his death. One might argue the Servant was the only basis Jesus could have had for interpreting his sufferings, but this is reading into the silence. The Servant passage is a unique OT reference to vicarious atoning suffering,85 even though the idea of enduring suffering and subsequent vindication is certainly not. Paul makes no use of the Servant figure, even though he twice quotes from the fourth Song.Only in 1 Pet. 2 do we find ‘the full identification of Jesus with the Servant in all its Christological significance’.8

Although Christian orthodoxy has never required the adoption of one particular theory of atonement, Reformed and evangelical proponents of penal substitution (PSA) insist on its pivotal role. It is argued that the roots of this thinking liein Enlightenment epistemology and Modern thought, corresponding to the advent of evangelicalism. PSA’s claims to be the controlling understanding are difficult to affirm on the biblical evidence and, problematically today, its paradigm of law, justice and punishment derives from pre- and early-modern eras. The‘kaleidoscopic’ view offers a broader biblical perspective on the nature of both‘the problem’ and ‘the solution’ and is more accessible to post-Modern thoughtforms. For the sake of evangelical mission, however, seeking after synthesis is encouraged, which might be explored through a renewed centre-point in ‘recapitulation/interchange’ or ‘covenant’ imagery.

EvangelicalQuarterlyAn International Reviewof Bible and Theologyin Defence of the Historic Christian FaithVol. LXXXIV No. 4 October 2012Editors: I Howard Marshall, John-Paul Lotz, John G F Wilks. Beyond the kaleidoscope:towards a synthesis of views on theatonementStephen J. Burnhope
 
Penal substitution rest on three basic ideas. First and foremost, the notion of retributive justice, that God requires the death of a perfect sacrifice to forgive our sins. In short, that on the cross Jesus Christ died to pay back God’s justice. Second, that the wrath of God must be appeased, that God is full of wrath towards us and must have that wrath satisfied, or “propitiated” in Christ’s death. And finally, the third notion is that God turned His back on Jesus Christ in His death, that Jesus was forsaken and abandoned because God cannot look upon our sin.

Penal substitution is the most common atonement model within the evangelical church today. It’s often preached with the analogy of a courtroom. God is a holy judge, and we are the guilty sinners. God’s justice demands payment, demands our death, and therefore God’s wrath is against us until payment is made. We deserve punishment, but we are unable to pay back God’s justice or appease His wrath. But Jesus Christ came out of love for us and died in our place; God punished Jesus instead of us, thus paying back the Father’s justice, satisfying His wrath, and saving us from hell. God turned His back on Jesus Christ, and in forsaking Him, God now accepts us as His children. God’s wrath is appeased, God’s (retributive) justice is satisfied, and God can now accept us as His own. This is penal substitution: Jesus Christ is punished (penal) in our place (substitution).

Belousek’s Argument

There are many problems I have with this theory, many of which are far too time consuming to address here. Like I said, I plan to eventually put together a short book which contains a concise argument against penal substitution. But here I want to discuss the main argument in Belousek’s book against penal substitution.

Belousek brilliantly sees the foundational presupposition behind penal substitution to be the idea that God’s justice is retributive, that is, that God’s justice demands equal payment for an offense. In short, penal substitution rests upon the lex talionis, the “eye for an eye” of the levitical law. God’s justice demands our death as payment for sin, and God is bound by this kind of justice and thus cannot forgive our sins without payment. Thus Jesus suffers God’s punishment in our place, so that God’s wrath can be appease and we can be forgiven. But the question we have to ask is this: do the scriptures understand God’s justice in this way? Is the justice of God, revealed to us in Jesus Christ, a retributive kind of justice or a redemptive kind of justice?

Simply, the underlying presupposition of penal substitution, the foundation upon which the entire theory rests, is that God’s justice is retributive, that God’s justice demands payment for an offense, tit for tat.

Belousek argues, rightly, that God’s justice is not retributive. Jesus Himself argues against any “eye for an eye” sort of justice in the sermon on the mount. (Matthew 5:38-42) But penal substitutionary atonement basis its entire paradigm on this idea. Belousek thus carefully and thoughtfully takes us through the bible and shows us that this idea comes not from the scriptures but from Greek philosophy. Aristotle and Socrates, who in turn influenced Augustine and thus infiltrated the west with this idea, are the originators of this kind of justice. The scriptures actually have no concept of retributive justice (not even the lex talionis, Belousek argues, is God’s will). The only kind of justice we see in the scriptures is the justice of mercy, the justice which heals, the justice of redemption. The scriptures present a kind of justice that looks more like “making right what’s wrong” (redemptive justice) instead balancing the legal scales (retributive justice). Belousek brilliantly takes you through ever problematic scripture, from Isaiah 53, Romans 3, the levitical law, and the prophets, in order to show this point.

The beauty of this argument is in its successful identification and removal of the foundation of penal substitution; what remains for the rest of the book is the joyful and systematic demolition of this theory. There is nothing left standing by the end of this book. There is no scripture which has not been examined, there is no presupposition left hiding, penal substitution is effectively put to death. There is an elegance and a brilliance to Belousek’s argument, and I have not doubt that this book will be the end of penal substitutionary atonement for anyone who reads it—and hopefully for the evangelical church as a whole.

If you have ever doubted penal substitution, but then thought, what about Isaiah 53? What about Romans 3? Then please, read this book. Maybe you are someone who wholeheartedly believes penal substitution is the gospel, then please, read this book.

I cannot stress how highly I recommend Belousek’s book. Perhaps one day the church will look back to it and say, “This was the book that once and for all exposed and demolished the heretical penal substitutionary atonement theory!. SDMorris

hope this helps !!!
 
Jesus Himself argues against any “eye for an eye” sort of justice in the sermon on the mount. (Matthew 5:38-42)

Jesus refutes PSA above along with the command to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you just as Jesus demonstrated on the cross when He said : Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Jesus and the Apostle's taught just the opposite of PSA.

hope this helps !!!
 
Yep, God has to judge sin, he doesn't like, but he has to.

I don't like, God doesn't like it, but he's got to do it, he's holy, man.

We aren't God, you can't apply judgment as coming from humans.
 
Yep, God has to judge sin, he doesn't like, but he has to.

I don't like, God doesn't like it, but he's got to do it, he's holy, man.

We aren't God, you can't apply judgment as coming from humans.
He came up with an alternative

Romans 3:22–26 (ESV) — 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 
@civic I read books all the time. I purchased this one about a year ago and it's excellent: Darrin W. Snyder Belousek. Atonement, Justice, and Peace: The Message of the Cross and the Mission of the Church

Here's a quote from it from another author:

As Jesus showed a sovereign freedom over the way of the law, so a doctrine of atonement must be free from any notion of a "transaction" which somehow satisfies the demands of a divine law code. It hardly makes sense that the Jesus who declined to give law any final importance and who was certified as being in the right about this when God raised him from among the dead, should have died as a means of satisfying law.

Revd Professor Paul Fiddes Professor of Systematic Theology​


If you think about that for a minute PSA makes no sense at all.
 
@civic I read books all the time. I purchased this one about a year ago and it's excellent: Darrin W. Snyder Belousek. Atonement, Justice, and Peace: The Message of the Cross and the Mission of the Church

Here's a quote from it from another author:

As Jesus showed a sovereign freedom over the way of the law, so a doctrine of atonement must be free from any notion of a "transaction" which somehow satisfies the demands of a divine law code. It hardly makes sense that the Jesus who declined to give law any final importance and who was certified as being in the right about this when God raised him from among the dead, should have died as a means of satisfying law.

Revd Professor Paul Fiddes Professor of Systematic Theology​


If you think about that for a minute PSA makes no sense at all.
Good book, i have it on logos
 
@civic I read books all the time. I purchased this one about a year ago and it's excellent: Darrin W. Snyder Belousek. Atonement, Justice, and Peace: The Message of the Cross and the Mission of the Church

Here's a quote from it from another author:

As Jesus showed a sovereign freedom over the way of the law, so a doctrine of atonement must be free from any notion of a "transaction" which somehow satisfies the demands of a divine law code. It hardly makes sense that the Jesus who declined to give law any final importance and who was certified as being in the right about this when God raised him from among the dead, should have died as a means of satisfying law.

Revd Professor Paul Fiddes Professor of Systematic Theology​


If you think about that for a minute PSA makes no sense at all.
Yes that book is a keeper :)
 
III. The penal substitutionary view

We strongly reject, therefore, every explanation of the death of Christ which does not have at its centre the principle of ‘satisfaction through substitution’ … ‘substitution’ is not a further ‘theory’ or ‘image’ to be set alongside the others, but rather the foundation of them all, without which each lacks cogency.32a.

Penal substitutionary atonement Thomas Schreiner summarises PSA in the following terms:The penalty for sin is death. Sinners deserve eternal punishment in hell from God himself because of their sin and guilt. God’s holy anger is directed against all those who have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And yet, because of God’s great love, he sent Christ to bear the punishment ofour sins. Christ died in our place, took to himself our sin and guilt, andbore our penalty so that we might receive forgiveness of sins.33

By the time of the Reformation, feudalism had been superseded by the Roman view of criminal law, under which the only satisfaction that could be offered was punishment. Impressed by Anselm’s argument that divine justice required satisfying, Calvin and the other Reformers simply reworked it in terms of their criminal law. This resulted in a theory within which God does pass the sentence that the law demands, but carries it out on a substitute. Paul Fiddes summarisesit in the following terms:

When Calvin built a theory of atonement upon the principle of divine justice, he therefore concluded that ‘the guilt, which held us liable to punishment, was transferred to the head of the Son of God’. God’s law had been infringed through human sin, and so penalty must be inflicted upon offenders in order to maintain the moral order of the universe. In the act of atonement, Christ pays the debt to justice by bearing the necessary punishment instead of humankind.35Already, then, we are struck by a very different way of perceiving imagery of the atonement, where penal substitution functions as a ‘central hub’ from which‘all of these other doctrines fan out.’36 All the various models offer a positive contribution, but penal substitution is regarded as controlling – ‘the sine qua non of evangelical soteriology’37 and ‘a distinguishing mark of the world-wide evangelical fraternity.

The act of God is no more than an abstention from interference with their free choice and its consequence … [Paul] has therefore succeeded in disassociating the fact of retribution from any idea of an angry God visiting his displeasure upon sinful men, even though he retains the old expression‘the Wrath of God’.54Leon Morris and Grant Osborne, however, are among those who reject this‘ingenious argument’;55 God’s wrath against sin is ‘too comprehensive in Scripture to allow such a reinterpretation’.56 The idea that the wrath of God is exercised against sin ‘runs through and through the OT’ and is ‘intensely personal’.57If this is the case, though, asks Green, is it not significant that God’s wrath isnever developed in the OT in sacrificial terms and that we find no exposition of sacrifice as satisfaction or penalty?58 Finding, in Rom. 3, an implicit need to assuage God’s wrath is based on a false presumed relation of wrath, sacrifice and atonement in the OT.59Examining the role and function of sacrifice in atonement to test these points is not an entirely straight forward hermeneutical exercise. Firstly, biblical sacrifices were made not just for sin;60 sacrifice ‘is a grander idea and does not in itself require a narrative of God’s judicial wrath needing to be satisfied’.61 There is a‘kaleidoscope of images which together constitute the NT characterisation of Jesus as sacrifice’,62 as different strands of the OT language of sacrifice are applied to Jesus in different ways,63 each in its own way bearing witness to a dimension of Jesus’ work.64What then of the meaning of kipper? Penal substitution’s interpretation(propitiation) is not universally accepted. According to Jacob Milgrom, the root meaning of kipper lies in wiping off or removing, suggesting that it means ‘topurge’, to expunge impurity. Furthermore, some scholars understand He therefore sees both the Day of Atonement rituals and Rom. 3:25 in expiatory, ratherthan propitiatory, terms.65Since it seems significant that Jesus apparently chose Passover (a time for celebrating and remembering liberation) rather than the Day of Atonement (a time for atoning sins) to explicate the significance of his death,66 we will briefly consider the Passover lamb.

Though it is often assumed that penal substitution lies at the heart of the Passover, this is not self-evident. Clearly, the Passover lamb was ‘sacrificed’, atleast in modern terms, although in precisely what capacity we cannot be definitive.67 Milgrom is clear that the sacrifice of the lamb is not a sin-offering (hatta-’t);neither is the verb kipper used in the texts on the paschal observance.68 Stephen Finlan points out that the Passover sacrifice was ‘completely different from other sacrifices … having nothing to do with cleansing, forgiveness, or reparation.’69Neither is there any developed idea of sacrifice, in the manner of the later atonement offerings.Moreover, there are further problems here. If Passover was a penal substitutionary event, why was its application limited to Israel’s firstborn sons? Why notthe entire nation? Equally, if the lamb is a penal substitute to avoid Israel suffering the fate of God’s judgement against the Egyptians, it seems odd that this arrangement of protection should be required only for the final plague. The objectheretofore has been God’s punishment exclusively upon Egypt.Whatever the origins of Passover, it was understood at the time of Jesus as agift-offering of praise and thanksgiving to God for his deliverance.70 The first century Pesah was fundamentally a national celebration designed to keep freshthe memory of the exodus and reassure the people that God ‘would smite all future tyrants as he had Pharaoh’ – celebrating God’s past liberation and anticipating his future liberation.71 The ritual identifies the nation that Yahweh’s action isredeeming. Through its obedient cultus participation, Israel is ‘marked out’ asthe redeemed, distinguished from Egypt and ‘set apart’ as those upon whom hisblessing rests.72 This fits well with the meaning of pesah as ‘protection’. It was ‘aGod-given covenant meal that identified his people as exempt from judgementand ready for deliverance.’73By choosing Passover to explain his death, then, instead of the Day of Atonement, Jesus was choosing images of divine protection and liberation.74

Although the Last Supper is commonly assumed to be a Passover meal,75 supporting evidence is far from clear, and the balance of scholarship today is shifting away from that conclusion.76 Given that sacrifice in covenant ratification had no substitutionary function, let alone a penal one,77 it is notable that the Synoptics and Paul posit the Last Supper’s sacramental significance in covenantal terms.78 This does not preclude a forgiveness element, but this comes by sharingin the new Passover – entering covenant by participation in his meal, drinkingfrom his cup.79 The absence of reference to the lamb is curious, too. Why wouldJesus not have applied the more-natural theme of ‘this lamb is my body’ rather than the bread?80 If Passover had direct correspondence in Jesus’ thought, McKnight sees this as ‘a virtual soteriological necessity’.81 Accordingly, he concludes the supper took place in a Pesah setting, with Jesus turning a regular Passover week meal into ‘a kind of Pesah’.82In another key passage, the Suffering Servant of Deutero-Isaiah, a central question is whether Jesus thought of himself in these terms. Notably, in none ofthe sayings attributed to Jesus does he designate himself as the Servant. If one has this conclusion in mind already, of course, it is easy to find numerous ‘servant’ and ‘suffering’ references to support it. An important hermeneutical question here is whether a NT quotation from the OT indicates the whole original passage is to be brought to mind, or just the text quoted.83 Adopting the former view broadens the material available to support such an hypothesis.84 Otherwise, though, the verses from Isaiah cited in e.g. Matt. 8:16-17, Matt. 12:18-21and Luke 4:16-21 indicate different characteristics of Jesus and his mission. If a vicarious bearing of sin by the Servant is in mind, it is surprising this is not somewhere stated explicitly, especially in Jesus’ predictions of his death. One might argue the Servant was the only basis Jesus could have had for interpreting his sufferings, but this is reading into the silence. The Servant passage is a unique OT reference to vicarious atoning suffering,85 even though the idea of enduring suffering and subsequent vindication is certainly not. Paul makes no use of the Servant figure, even though he twice quotes from the fourth Song.Only in 1 Pet. 2 do we find ‘the full identification of Jesus with the Servant in all its Christological significance’.8

Although Christian orthodoxy has never required the adoption of one particular theory of atonement, Reformed and evangelical proponents of penal substitution (PSA) insist on its pivotal role. It is argued that the roots of this thinking liein Enlightenment epistemology and Modern thought, corresponding to the advent of evangelicalism. PSA’s claims to be the controlling understanding are difficult to affirm on the biblical evidence and, problematically today, its paradigm of law, justice and punishment derives from pre- and early-modern eras. The‘kaleidoscopic’ view offers a broader biblical perspective on the nature of both‘the problem’ and ‘the solution’ and is more accessible to post-Modern thoughtforms. For the sake of evangelical mission, however, seeking after synthesis is encouraged, which might be explored through a renewed centre-point in ‘recapitulation/interchange’ or ‘covenant’ imagery.

EvangelicalQuarterlyAn International Reviewof Bible and Theologyin Defence of the Historic Christian FaithVol. LXXXIV No. 4 October 2012Editors: I Howard Marshall, John-Paul Lotz, John G F Wilks. Beyond the kaleidoscope:towards a synthesis of views on theatonementStephen J. Burnhope
I appreciate the church history on the atonement theory. Much thanks.
 
We strongly reject, therefore, every explanation of the death of Christ which does not have at its centre the principle of ‘satisfaction through substitution’ … ‘substitution’ is not a further ‘theory’ or ‘image’ to be set alongside the others, but rather the foundation of them all, without which each lacks cogency.32a.
a, or the substitution object itself for sin is volatile, but the sin itself do not change. only the sacrifice is changeable.

101G.
 
Nothing in scripture says it’s volatile where do you get that idea
was not sin..... passed on from person to person/via offspring by ruling in their lives? even on them that had not Sin.... say what? Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

was the ONE man Adam many? for IN, IN, IN, him, Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

well, if all had sinned why death continued. volatile liable to change rapidly and unpredictably, especially for the worse:

so is all sin the same? "after the similitude of Adam's transgression". now look up similitude.

101G.
 
@civic,
is all sin unto death? 1 John 5:17 "All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." but... but there is one where there is no forgiveness, and it;s unto DEATH.

now this, 1 John 5:16 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

but as verse 17 states, is not "All unrighteousness is sin". we think U better look at that again.... for is not ALL here inclusive?

101G
 
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