Not even close to talking in a circle, but speaking words of soberness and truth, that protect our Lord's Deity.You say "before Jesus was conceived and born, he was the God of Genesis 1:1
You are talking in circles again.
Not in Genesis 1:1, but was the Eternal God of Genesis 1:1, a huge difference. The burden of proof is on the Eternal Sonship folks to prove he was there, which they can never do, it is the blind follow the blind syndrome that the RCC Nicene Council of 325 produce (they came together to resolve theological disputes about the divinity of Jesus) to send into the world, instead of resolving the doctrine, they corrupted it. The seed of heresy was sowed into the world and has taken deep roots, even to a point, that most never consider the ramification of this heresy, they just blindly follow it as though it is the truth.We, MOST, all agree that He was in Genesis 1:1 but Jesus was not His name. And MOST agree He was one of the ones in the "Let us make" verse
I know well what John 1:1 said and teaches.Do you know the name that has been referred to as being in Gen 1:1 along with God YHWH? That one was called the Word.
AND BEFORE YOU GET ALL HYPER AND SAY WELL WORD IS NOT A NAME.
John tells us in 1:14.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John talks of the Word, not the name Jesus, yet before conception they were instructed to name the baby Jesus..... ) So what is it about this word that became flesh and walked among us?
That's God's testimony of His Son recorded for us in Luke one, mainly, with tons of other scriptures proving the same.So you still insist that this Son of God did not become such until Mary gave birth?
Firstborn describes the "preeminent position", regardless of any birth order (Colossians 1:18; Hebrews 11:17). Your added statement is not found in the scriptures.the firstborn of every creature: (Again, this is Jesus who was the first born of every creature before he created creation.)
You know that is blasphemy! Horribly unscriptural, that destroys Jesus Deity as God with those very words!This says that the very first thing that God did while being alone was to create Jesus.
@Studyman
So, let me ask you this question: Why did the first church meet on the first day of the week? We never read of them saying anything concerning Sabbath day worship for Christians, never.
I know you believe this, I have heard it a hundred times over, almost word for word. But if you read my words carefully I never said or called you a Sabbath worshipper, I said clearly ~ "concerning Sabbath day Worship", or the day Christian set aside a day to worship God. Is it Saturday or Sunday ~ yet we all understand we truly worrship God 24/7 in truth and spirit, a constant walking and meditation on God, his word, etc. God rules in our hearts on every decision we we make, every words that flows from our lips are guarded in a way, so as to please God first and foremost. This is true worship for a child of God in a summarized in a few words.First of all, your little deception "concerning Sabbath day Worship" is subtle and cleaver no doubt. But a wickedness just the same. There was never any instruction in Scriptures to "Worship God's Sabbath", or "worship Passover" or "worship the resurrection". I am not a "Sabbath worshipper". I am not a "cross worshipper" or "an image of God after the likeness of some handsome long haired man", worshipper. I don't Worship "thou shall not Kill". I worship the God And Father of the Lord's Christ, who HE sent to be my Redeemer and Savior and this Jesus, "of the bible" instructs me to Live By the Words of His Father, and Worshipping Him in Spirit and Truth.
Read again what I just said to you and let it sink in if you can, which not sure you can, to be honest.The "First Church of God" under His New High Priest, Honored and respected the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, concerning His Sabbaths, even in the most traumatic time of their lives, the murder of the prophesied Messiah they had waited for and placed their trust in. For you to preach that "We never read of them saying anything concerning Sabbath day worship", is true because there was never any instruction, ever in the entire Bible, that men should worship a "DAY", or a Statue, or a Cross, or a religion. There is nothing in any of my posts, even implying that a man should "Worship God's Sabbath". What foolishness.
For now I will only say this those OT Feast, were a type of or shadow of good things to come. We do not observe the OT Passover, and other feast of the OT Jews' rellgion, which were shadow obviously, but different. In taking of the Lord's supper we do it in remembrance of Christ's body being broken for us and his life blood given to wash away our sins. No where are we commanded to keep the Jewish Sabbath days, not eating certain meat, yet are told to not let any judge us because we refuse to keep the Jewish Sabbaths, etc.The "First Church of God" under HIS New Priesthood observed the Passover, and honored and respected God in HIS Feast of Unleavened bread, including God's Holy Sabbaths on the First and Last day of the Feast. They most definitely honored and worshipped God in their submission to HIS Righteousness. This was necessary in order to know to "Count" the 7 Sabbaths, so as to be gathered on the Most Holy "Pentecost", another "Feast of the Lord" rejected by this world's religions. This obedience to God prompted God to share with them His Holy Spirit, AKA "The Spirit of Truth" that God gives to them that "Obey Him". The prince of darkness and it's little helpers, preach that the "First Church of God" under His New High Priest, the Lord's Christ, ignored and/or rejected God's Sabbaths. This is an insidious Lie furthered by the Promoters of this world's religious system.
True any day belongs to God, and is to be use to serve him, yet there is a reason why Paul said these words:There is nothing wrong with having lunch, setting aside money, studying God's Word or fellowshipping on the 1st day of the week, or the 2nd day, or the 4th day. There is however, something wrong with rejecting a commandment, Judgment or statute of God, in order to promote and/or live by this world's popular religious traditions that Transgress God's Commandments, or to promote for doctrines the Commandments of men, according to the Jesus "of the Bible".
How many times in the Church epistles care to know? I can only think of one, and that one in its applicability for NT Christians! all are in the Gospel before Acts 2. There's a reason for this. NT Christian are not under the Jewish Sabbaths day. You cannot be both and be right!God's Sabbath was mentioned 55 times in the NT. The implication of your post, that there was no mention that faithful "doers" of the Christ Sayings, ( Who were called "Christians" twice in the Bible") rejected God's Sabbath day observance is simply a big fat falsehood. "Covet" was only mentioned 4 times, Steal was only mentioned 10 times. "Adultery" only 18 Times. Murder 5 Times. Kill 44 times.
I have a post coming in a new thread on its own concerning these things. So, I'll wait to discuss this later.Anyone who believes in the Jesus "of the Bible" will "Seek First the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness". Through the Holy Scriptures God's Righteousness will be revealed to them, included, but not limited to God's Holy 7th Day found in the very First 2 Chapters of the Bible, including who made it Holy. They will find it in the 4th Commandment of the !0 Commandments. They will find what Days God Esteemed above other days. They will find, as Jesus Himself said, that is, the Jesus "of the Bible", what to eat, what to drink, what philosophy to be clothed with.
Just because you and Constantine Don't believe in Jesus' or His Father's Words, doesn't make them wrong.
You need to reconsider what you are reading and trusting in ~ that writer is badly deceived.@FreeInChrist
Not even close to talking in a circle, but speaking words of soberness and truth, that protect our Lord's Deity.
Not in Genesis 1:1, but was the Eternal God of Genesis 1:1, a huge difference. The burden of proof is on the Eternal Sonship folks to prove he was there, which they can never do, it is the blind follow the blind syndrome that the RCC Nicene Council of 325 produce (they came together to resolve theological disputes about the divinity of Jesus) to send into the world, instead of resolving the doctrine, they corrupted it. The seed of heresy was sowed into the world and has taken deep roots, even to a point, that most never consider the ramification of this heresy, they just blindly follow it as though it is the truth.
You said: "And MOST agree He was one of the ones in the "Let us make" verse"...............
I Know most do, but they cannot prove it. Us are the elect angels that were created in God's image, in holiness, spiritual wisdom, knowledge and understanding, just before man, they were created to be sent forth to ministered to God's elect.
Hebrews 1:14
"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"
I know well what John 1:1 said and teaches.
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
I have already spent time on this verse earlier on in this thread, so I'll be short.
What did John mean by the beginning in his opening about the Word of God?
John used it here for the divine Word of God and also in 1st John 1:1,2; 2:13,14) It is before creation due to the Word creating all things by Himself (John 1:3). It therefore references eternity, the time (or lack thereof) before Genesis 1:1. The Word was not created, for He was in the very beginning before creation. Since the Word created all things (1:3), therefore He is Creator, not creature. If the Word gave being and existence to all things, He is independent of all. Since existence before creation is eternity, then Jesus Christ is eternal God.
Let us consider the English word ~ word ~ and its context here and elsewhere.
Word. I. Speech, utterance, verbal expression. Things said, or something said; speech, talk, discourse, utterance; report, tidings, news, information. II. An element of speech. A combination of vocal sounds, or one such sound, used in a language to express an idea and constituting an ultimate minimal element of speech having a meaning as such. [OED].
By its context, consider how the Word of God is a declaration or revelation. The heavens, part of all things, declares the glory of God (John 1:3; Psalms 19:1-6). The Word of God is the light of men by the eternal life He gives (John 1:4,5). He was the true Light that lights every man coming into the world (John 1:8). He was incarnated in man’s flesh for men to see; He revealed God (John 1:14). He brought grace and truth, totally unlike the word Moses brought (John 1:17). No man has ever seen God, but the incarnate Word declared Him (John 1:18). The eternal life with the Father, the Word of life, was manifested (1st John 1:2). The Word of God, with human nature as Jesus Christ, revealed God the Father. Jesus said no man could know the Father but by His revelation (Matthew 11;27). Jesus came to give men an understanding (the Word) of God (1st John 5:20).
"With God", simply mean part of God's nature as the Eternal God ~ the Godhead is ONE eternally DIVINE nature with no beginning, and no end.
The Word was God without any qualifications.
John 1:14
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Note very carefully that it was the Word, and not the Son, that is named here. The Word and the Son are not the same Being/Person without clarification. The Word became the Son by His incarnation in human flesh through Mary. The Son is dependent on both the Word and His human nature for existence. The Son was not made flesh, because the Son is flesh by His very existence.
This is an incredible event in all recorded history – Jehovah God became man. Remember from John 1:10 the Word was in the world and not known by it. All facts of human history recorded or studied in school pale in comparison. Why all the fuss about asinine nothing? … The Day the Earth Stood Still. Jesus Christ is also known as Emmanuel – God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23) . Jesus had a human body indwelt by the fullness of the Godhead (Colossians 2:7-9) God is a spirit. Jesus had a body. Jesus Christ is God, but God is not Jesus. The verse does not say that that the Son was made flesh, but the Word which was God was made flesh in the person Of Jesus of Narareth...The Word joined Himself to the tabernacle of God's Son and live in this world around 33 plus years over two thousand years ago.
That's God's testimony of His Son recorded for us in Luke one, mainly, with tons of other scriptures proving the same.
Firstborn describes the "preeminent position", regardless of any birth order (Colossians 1:18; Hebrews 11:17). Your added statement is not found in the scriptures.
You know that is blasphemy! Horribly unscriptural, that destroys Jesus Deity as God with those very words!
Revelation 1:7,8
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
You need to reconsider what you are reading and trusting in ~ that writer is badly deceived.
“I and the Father are one.” – John 10:30
“Jesus gave them this answer: ‘Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.'” – John 5:19
“Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.'” – John 14:6-7
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” – Matthew 11:27
“Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.” – John 14:10
Not sure what Paul's viability has to do with thsi subject, but let us take a look at Colossians 1Well, I always said I wonder about the viability of Paul.
Colossians 1:16 "For through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him."
AmenYou need to reconsider what you are reading and trusting in ~ that writer is badly deceived.
No Red, he is not . Y0ou feel that way because he does not agree with you.
You are a Paul reader and believer are you not?
Well, I always said I wonder about the viability of Paul.
Colossians 1:16 "For through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him."
But you are going to jump up and say this does not say that "Him" was the Son.
I use a lot of outside references to shore up my beliefs so YOU and othrs cannot claim that is is all my fantasy.
One, that I quasi-trust but is definitely on YOU side of predestination is Got Questions. Look what they say about this verse.
Colossians 1:16 says, “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.” The Him here is a reference to Jesus, the image of the “invisible God” mentioned in the previous verse.
When Paul says that all things were made by Him and for Him, he is expressing Jesus’ central and superior role in creation. Several verses at the beginning of Colossians further highlight and elevate Jesus’ status as the Son of God over creation. Paul refers to Jesus as “the firstborn over all creation” (Colossians 1:15) and later says that Jesus is “before all things and in Him all things hold together” (Colossians 1:17). He also says that Jesus is the “head of the body” and “the beginning and firstborn from among the dead” (Colossians 1:18).
Side track.
I just had an idea for a movie.....
Picture this.... a huge classroom set outside the Pearly Gates leading into heaven and while St Peter is checking those names in the book of life to verify who gets entry, and he ushers each to a seat in this giant classroom.
There are going to be assorted subjects we will be taught from Free Will to Predestination, or Eternal Sonship to Incarnate Sonship and on and on because there is no bickering allowed inside and only the "TRUTH" will be spoken.
After attending these classes, everyone will be given a test. Those who do not get at least 90% correct on it will have to repeat them all from the beginning... and those who pass, will be given a gold star on their foreheads and ushered in.
Back on topic
The folloing 5 verses you know well as they are from your prefered KJV of the bible.
John 10:30
John 5:19
John 14:6-7
Matthew 11:27
John 14:10
Can you not see that the tie in between the Father and the Son is so intricate that these verses scream out, to me, that Jesus
was from time before time. As the son because He is referring to the Father in each.
“Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.”
He is one with the Father. He always has been. They are 2 of the three in the Godhead.
They are separate but they are one. They are eternal. Father and Son
Red is correct. Jesus is the God, and the Only God at Genesis 1:1. meaning he, Jesus, is the First. for the term "Beginning" there says it all.I know you want to come back to finish with Rowan but What are you saying here....?
You say "before Jesus was conceived and born, he was the God of Genesis 1:1
You are talking in circles again.
We, MOST, all agree that He was in Genesis 1:1 but Jesus was not His name. And MOST agree He was one of the ones in the "Let us make" verse
Do you know the name that has been referred to as being in Gen 1:1 along with God YHWH? That one was called the Word.
AND BEFORE YOU GET ALL HYPER AND SAY WELL WORD IS NOT A NAME.
John tells us in 1:14.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John talks of the Word, not the name Jesus, yet before conception they were instructed to name the baby Jesus..... ) So what is it about this word that became flesh and walked among us?
So you still insist that this Son of God did not become such until Mary gave birth?
Look closely at John 1:15 KJV Look at the wording....
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
For he was before me????????????????/
Question Is Jesus the Creator? Answer Genesis 1:1 says that "God created the heavens and the earth." Then, Colossians 1:16 gives the added detail that God created "all things" through Jesus Christ. The plain teaching of Scripture, therefore, is that Jesus is the Creator of the universe.(So by the time Colossians was written, after the death of Jesus, it surly was well known by Paul
that it was Jesus, the begotten of the Father who created creation, and all scriptures that I read point to this fact.
Perhaps this will help clarify things for you.. any color changes are mine for emphasis.
Was Jesus the Son of God before his conception with Mary or even before the creation of heaven and earth? Can you further prove that Jesus was created by God?
February 18, 2016
The scripture that best explains this is found in Colossians 1:12-18, “Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light…Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
The following is my comments to the above.....
Slowly now... I'll repeat. Giving thanks unto the Father, This would be God the Father.....
which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light..
Who is the image of the invisible God, ( This would be Jesus)
the firstborn of every creature: (Again, this is Jesus who was the first born of every creature before he created creation.)
Please continue....
The concept of firstborn is of one having a beginning coming from another that was prior to himself but is the first of perhaps many. The same concept is also stated in Revelation 3:14, “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.” This says that the very first thing that God did while being alone was to create Jesus.
Another scripture passage that says the same thing is found in Proverbs 8:22-23 (Revised Standard Version), “The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.” Although this is talking about wisdom, consider 1 Corinthians 1:30, “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom.” Hence Proverbs 8 is talking about Jesus, who is the wisdom of God in his pre-human experience.
Most translators follow the Latin Vulgate mistranslation for John 1:1 rather than John’s original Greek! John literally tells us that the Word (Jesus before becoming a babe in Bethlehem) was “towards God.” This requires some interpretation.
Hebrews 2:17 provides insight; “Therefore, He (Jesus) had to be made like His brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God….” This Greek phrase “in things pertaining to God” and “with God” are identical! Clearly, their sense is “to be in heart union and desiring to serve.”
Correct, Jesus is that IMAGE, Man, that was to come, the IMAGE he made in Genesis 1:27.... with God the IMAGE appeared before the Source was manifested. hence the spoken words in Genesis 1:26, US and OUR that was to come ..... in manifestation.Colossians 1:15-17
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
Verse 15: Jesus Christ is the visible representation of the invisible God, for
@Keiw1 I tagged you here for the express reason I want you to see what is said about Jehovah and you have a tie with the KJV.@FreeInChrist
Not sure what Paul's viability has to do with thsi subject, but let us take a look at Colossians 1
Colossians 1:15-17
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
Verse 15: Jesus Christ is the visible representation of the invisible God, for He is the Word made flesh that was God in his Divine nature. No man has or can see God, but men have and will see God made flesh in Jesus John 1:14,18)(. This is a great mystery of godliness; God was manifest in the flesh as Immanuel (1st Timothy 3:16). Jesus is not just a similarity or close image of God: as God, He is His express image (Hebrews 1:3). Jesus Christ is a creature in his human nature, but He is highest of them by virtue of His divine. He was made flesh, made of the seed of David, made a quickening spirit, made of a woman, made under the law, made himself of no reputation, made in the likeness of men, made so much better than angels, made lower than the angels, made like unto his brethren, made higher than the heavens (Romans 1:3; 1st Corinthians 15; 45; Galatians 4:4; Philippians 2:7 Hebrews 1:4; 2:9,17 7:27) He is the heir, superior, with all the rights of every creature, for He created all creatures (1:16). Whenever we consider Jesus Christ, we must see aspects of His human and His Divine natures.
1:16 Jesus Christ created all things by and for Himself, that He might have absolute glory.
All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made (John 1:3).
Both things of this world and that which is to come were made by Him and for Him. Glory! Principalities and powers of this world or the spirit world are mere creatures of the Lord Jesus, which certainly does preliminary damage to the heresy of worshipping angels (2:18). He is the Source of all things, and He is the End or Purpose of all things. This includes Satan!
These terms are plainly used elsewhere to describe God Himself. Jesus Christ is truly Jehovah!
1:17 Jesus Christ is Jehovah God; He is before all creatures and upholds them by His power.
This text does not say “was” any more than Matthew 22:32. Jesus of Nazareth is Jehovah! This text does not say “was” any more than John 3:13, even if it is missing from other versions. He is, was, and shall be before all creatures; He is Jehovah, I AM THAT I AM (Exodus 3:14; 63). He upholds all things by the word of His power, even all things large and small (Hebrews 1:3). Whether you think of stars and planets, or molecules and nuclei, He binds them all together. The language is similar to that of Romans 11:36, which describes God. Jesus is Jehovah God! We must be able to distinguish the two distinct natures in Christ, who was an complex person fully man and fully God, without an toggle switch to flip off and o ~, the wisdom and power of God made this so.
So, actually Paul elevated Jesus AS JEHOVAH, the I AM THAT I AM. "As the Son of God," he gave God all the glory and rightly so in his humanity as Jesus of Narareth. It is truly a mystery of godliness, thought of by the wisdom of the HIGHEST and carried out perfectly by his Almighty power.
101G respectfully I am only challenging Red on this because he is insistent that Jesus was not the Son until he came from Mary.Red is correct. Jesus is the God, and the Only God at Genesis 1:1. meaning he, Jesus, is the First. for the term "Beginning" there says it all.
Beginning: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
definition #1. The "First". yes, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. meaning God is an Ordinal of himself to come. this is supportive of Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" the term "ONE" here is the Hebrew word,
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
an "Ordinal" ...... FIRST? yes, as in the Ordinal designations of .... "FIRST" and "Last". this as plain as it get. the Lord Jesus is the First and the Last, the ONE TRUE God from the beginning of our CREATION, Genesis 1:1 to the END of our CREATION Revelation 22:21.
Genesis 1:1 clearly tells us who the Lord Jesus is in both Spirit, Genesis 1:1 and in Natural Flesh, with blood, John 1:1 and in GLORIFIED flesh, without blood, Revelation 1:1.
do one know what this indicate? Genesis 1:1 "I AM", (Spirit)/Father, CREATOR of ALL THINGS. John 1:1 "THAT", (spirit/man, Son, REDEEMER of ALL THINGS that he CREATED. Revelation 1:1 "I AM"...... spirit, GLORIFIED/ in Flesh and bones, without blood, Son in Amalgamation "with" the (Father, Spirit). I AM he who was dead, and is now alive forever more. I AM THAT I AM.
101G.
@Studyman
I know you believe this, I have heard it a hundred times over, almost word for word. But if you read my words carefully I never said or called you a Sabbath worshipper, I said clearly ~ "concerning Sabbath day Worship", or the day Christian set aside a day to worship God.
Is it Saturday or Sunday
~ yet we all understand we truly worrship God 24/7 in truth and spirit, a constant walking and meditation on God, his word, etc. God rules in our hearts on every decision we we make, every words that flows from our lips are guarded in a way, so as to please God first and foremost. This is true worship for a child of God in a summarized in a few words.
Read again what I just said to you and let it sink in if you can, which not sure you can, to be honest.
For now I will only say this thoseOT Feast, Feasts of the Lord were a type of or shadow of good things Yet to come. (This is why HE gave them to us, and why Paul walked in them and taught others to do the same) We do not observe theOT Passover,Feast of the Lord, Passover and other feast of theOT Jews' rellgion, of the Lord Feast of Unleavened bread, Pentecost, etc, which were shadow obviously, of things yet to comebut different.
In taking of the Lord's supper we do it in remembrance of Christ's body being broken for us and his life blood given to wash away our sins.
No where are we commanded to keep the Jewish Sabbath days,
not eating certain meat, yet are told to not let any judge us because we refuse to keep the Jewish Sabbaths, etc.
Colossians 2:16
“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
True any day belongs to God, and is to be use to serve him, yet there is a reason why Paul said these words:
1 Corinthians 16:2
“Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.”
Let Seventh Day Adventists and all those who hold to their teachings without calling themselves by that name cavil and complain; they are heretical idolaters of Saturn’s Day.
These simple people have been deceived by a neurotic woman named Ellen G. Harmon. She has convinced them Sunday worship is the mark of the beast and invention of Rome.
All this was shown her by a vision of the fourth commandment highlighted in the ark! They (again, all who teach as they do) also are pagan vegetarians by the same ignorance and superstition (Colossians 2:16-19). The only mention of the Sabbath by Paul is to condemn its applicability (Colossians 2:16,17).
The council at Jerusalem dealt with Gentiles, but ignored the Sabbath (Acts 15:22-29).
Jesus showed Himself on the first day of the week and made it the Lord’s day (Revelation 1:10).
The disciples of the New Testament churches met on Sunday for worship (Acts 20:7).
Paul only used Saturday to preach to Jews and Gentile proselytes before conversion. The instruction of this text (1st Corinthians 16:2) proves clearly that Sunday was a holy time for the apostles. Paul included the churches of Galatia in this order, which applied Sunday to all churches.
How many times in the Church epistles care to know? I can only think of one, and that one in its applicability for NT Christians! all are in the Gospel before Acts 2. There's a reason for this. NT Christian are not under the Jewish Sabbaths day. You cannot be both and be right!
I'm not going to rehash everything again, but only will mention a few things. I never change, I just corrected your spin that you put on my words, nothing more, others can judge for themselves, if they care to do so, and make their own judgement.I read what you posted, now you want to change it. What a surprise.
First, you would not be welcome, with your strange teachings on the few subjects that I have seen you to ever attempt to have a serious dialogue concerning, in the very small world you live in, and I can almost repeat those words verbatim.why in earth would I adopt your religion?
We do not observe the OT Passover, we have the Lord's supper, not the OT Jewish feast, we live under Christ, not Moses.The Jesus of the Bible has not yet returned Red. Passover is just the beginning of God's Salvation. There are a lot of people who offer to God Christ's Blood for their sins, that only honored God with their lips during their lives. Jesus speaks to them in Matt. 7. He said we will know them by their works.
A couple of quick notes. I never read behind Calvin UNTIL I got grounded in what saw from the scriptures then I read some of Calvin's works, as I did hundred's of other folks. Calvin was strongest on practical Christianity more so that a few other subjects.And you have been deceived by a man named Calvin, a man that transformed himself into an Apostle of Christ, that Jesus abolished God's Sabbath. Yu are also deceived by Constantine, that God was born on Dec. 25th. Others have adopted the religious opinions of Charles Russell, other John Wesley and Arminius. Jesus said there would be "Many" who come in His Name, and that we should Take Heed we are not convinced of things about God that are not true, AKA, deceived by them.
@Studyman
I'm not going to rehash everything again, but only will mention a few things. I never change, I just corrected your spin that you put on my words, nothing more, others can judge for themselves, if they care to do so, and make their own judgement.
First, you would not be welcome, with your strange teachings on the few subjects that I have seen you to ever attempt to have a serious dialogue concerning, in the very small world you live in, and I can almost repeat those words verbatim.
Secondly, we use Saturday for a work day around the house, etc., etc. Sunday day set aside to honor the Lord's Day. So, you would not, besides If we had a potluck dinner, pork would definitely be on the menu, and you would go hungry.
We do not observe the OT Passover, we have the Lord's supper, not the OT Jewish feast, we live under Christ, not Moses.
You said: "There are a lot of people who offer to God Christ's Blood for their sins"
I have no clue what you are referring to, and not sure you do either ~ that's a strange statement. It was Christ who offered himself up to God to be a propitiation for our sins by his death (shedding his blood, etc.)
A couple of quick notes. I never read behind Calvin UNTIL I got grounded in what saw from the scriptures then I read some of Calvin's works, as I did hundred's of other folks. Calvin was strongest on practical Christianity more so that a few other subjects.
I do not celebrate Christmas thank you very much, just proves you know very little about me. Though I do not celebrate December 25th as Christ's birthday, I refuse to judge those that do, per Romans 14. There're great battles to be fought.
Enough said for now, I have a meeting come up until 2:30 or so.
The following link is too long for me to post.The Jews may have created their own high days, like you have, they certainly had their own commandments and judgments, like you do, but I'm not speaking to the "Jews Religion" that persecuted the Church of God and killed the Prophets, and Jesus.
Jesus would be a liar if your reasoning is correct. He is 100% certain-John 17:3--The one who sent him= Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD----the mislead refuse to believe him. Paul believed him as do all true followers-1Cor 8:6Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. He see's the past, the present, and the future all at the same time. A thousand years is like nothing to Jesus. Before time began, Jesus was God.
The following link is too long for me to post.
You should read it and learn something about one thing you are in error about but should know
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Did the Jews Crucify Jesus? - TheTorah.com
The gospels present Pontius Pilate, the Roman procurator, condemning Jesus to death, and his soldiers crucifying Jesus at the behest of the priests and the Jewish crowd. How, then, did the claim—found even in the Talmud—that the Jews physically crucified Jesus develop? | Prof. Tamás Visiwww.thetorah.com
It is about Did the Jews Crucify Jesus.
I'lll tell you of the dangers to rely only on the Holy Book.I have heard of this philosophy many times before. But have come to understand the danger and warnings of looking to or believing voices outside the Holy Scriptures, for knowledge about God and His Son. I am glad to share with you what the bible actually says about this very thing, and why it is my understanding that the Jews Killed Jesus and persecuted and even killed some of the Prophets. I would appreciate it if you would show me where I am off base in my belief in this matter based on what is actually written in scriptures.
I'lll tell you of the dangers to rely only on the Holy Book.
Some of the Translations are wrong. If you are to rely solely on them you need 4 to 6 sources for comparison
for what you see in one might sound right but in another the wording can throw one off
GINOLJC, to all.101G respectfully I am only challenging Red on this because he is insistent that Jesus was not the Son until he came from Mary.
You may agree with this. I do not.
ok, if that's true, then answer this, "Who made all things?". listen,I am the one who believes in the 3. And I believe the 3 were in existence for all of eternity past. And I see the 3 in Genesis 1.