Open Debate on the "Eternal Sonship vs Incarnate Sonship which is biblical?"

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

You might wan to read more before commenting on his post.

M

Thread 'My Kenosis full understanding'

Saturday at 6:53 PM

Friends, allow me to share what I believe is a coherent way to read Scripture —yet I do not present this as dogma. I hold to the principle of “not going beyond what is written” (1 Cor 4:6). What follows is simply my understanding, the interpretation that seems to me most faithful to the biblical pattern. I respect the venerable Nicene tradition, but I cannot impose a word like homoousios which the apostles themselves never used. What I see, rather, is that the key thread running from Genesis to Revelation is the mystery of kenosis —self-emptying love.

THE INTEGRAL...

• Milo Flores
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Doctrine

• 

We are our brothers/sisters keeper!

OY. I am in big trouble.

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

You are not adding correctly. The first week he visited them=day one. Monday would have been day two, etc. Saturday would have been day seven, Sunday again, would have been eight days later! This is not too deep to figure out.

I'm steeping out for a while be back later.

Well lets see if this is two deep for you to figure out. It was getting toward the end of Sunday.

John 20: 19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, (Sunday) when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. (Sunday still)

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost (Sunday Still)

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. (Sunday Still)

25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. (Sunday Still)

26 And after "eight days" again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday Monday.

 

[e v e]

the 144k sons were in eden

ponder.

all of the eden sons and daughters will be Home soon in eden in the other reality

the sons will rule with Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

John 20: 19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, (Sunday) when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

After Christ's resurrection, the time when the world begin to recognized WHEN THE DAY STARTED has never changed since post Christ's resurrection! The new day is from 12:00 midnight to 12:00 midnight! A. D. change the way the whole world including Israel, even though they took longer, but the whole world understands when a day end and begins.

Acts 20:7​

“And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.”

Even the Christian Jews went by the same time fame that we do today as early as post Christ's resurrection, in the Acts of the apostles. Acts 16:

Acts 16:25​

“And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.”

John 20: 19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, (Sunday) when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The first day of the week begun at midnight and lasted until midnight, then a new day begun AT midnight! The same as it does even until now.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday Monday.

You MUST add the day in which all this is taking place and then you will end back up on the first day of the following week. Simple math the way the Holy Ghost does math.

If it would help, I can take the arrow on the chart (not meant to be an exact hour by hour, but an overall truth) and just move it past the the 6:00 when the three days and night approximately came to an end, it does not mean that Christ arose dead on three days and night? No, but had to be in the grave AT LEAST three days and night, and then he would arise, which he did something after midnight and before the sun came up in the early hours of the first day of the week. The Jewish Saturday Sabbath day is NOT the Lord's day that you so desperately desire it to be. Mark said it so precise:

Mark 16:9​

“Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.”

Not on the Jewish Saturday Sabbath of rest. Let's see how well you can read. My youngest grandchild who can read very well at six, knows exactly what these words are saying: “Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week,......."

Do you?

 

[Jim]

Error after error. Amazing that you earlier claimed that the body of Christ was transfigured and Glorious during His advent and yet you want to deny it here.

Nothing but doubleminded nonsense from you.

The transfiguration of Jesus was temporary. It didn't stay that way.

 

[Studyman]

After Christ's resurrection, the time when the world begin to recognized WHEN THE DAY STARTED has never changed since post Christ's resurrection! The new day is from 12:00 midnight to 12:00 midnight! A. D. change the way the whole world including Israel, even though they took longer, but the whole world understands when a day end and begins.

Yes, this world's religious system, since Constantine came to save it, has it all figured out, just as the World of Noah's Time had it all figured out, and this world's religions of Jesus' Time, had it all figured out. This world has always had it figured out, as it is written.

Rev. 12: 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Yes Red, you and Constantine and this whole world has it figured out. God is the deceiver.

It's just to bad you and Constantine and Kenneth Copeland couldn't have been there with God in the beginning to instruct Him concerning these things. I mean, according to you and Constantine, God sanctified and set apart the wrong day as Holy And nobody in the Bible knew it. Not Abraham, Moses, or even ONE Prophet. Even the Christ, after HE became a man, didn't know that HE was walking in the Wrong Holy Day, until Constantine came along to straighten out the whole world. And Red Baker is his little helper, how special.

Too bad you guys couldn't have been there to straighten God out on the creation of the Day as well. How stupid it was of God to create a day that anyone, anywhere, could tell when HIS Day started and when His Day ended. You and the prince of this world are much smarter, starting your day at midnight, so your day starts in darkness and ends in darkness, so men would have to buy a clock from you, or ask you if the day was over yet. What a great marketing strategy, and a perfect way to turn men away from a God your posts portray as incompetent, to the prince of this world who has convinced everyone that God was a fool for creating His day to start at sundown.

It's just too bad that you and Kenneth Copeland couldn't have been there in the beginning with God, Since you preach it was God's Fault that perfect and righteous Eve Sinned because HE gave her Laws, but withheld from her the ability to obey them. You would have just "abolished" all laws, well, not all Laws, just the "Beggarly Elements and Yoke of Bondage" you preach God placed on men who trusted Him.

It's too bad you and the Pope weren't there in the beginning, to protect Eve from the force from without her heart, that God placed in the garden, that defiled her. And this because God Sent her into the garden with no warning, and "with no assistance at all" from Him. You would have set God straight about that I'm sure, and wouldn't have placed the talking snake into the garden at all.

It's just too bad you and Constantine were not there with God in the beginning. You would have stopped Him from creating all those "worthless Jewish Laws", all that stupid stuff like knowing clean from unclean, Holy from unholy, righteousness from unrighteousness. All those worthless "Shadows of things yet to come". You and Constantine would have straightened God out concerning the creation of all these things. Instructing God about what Righteousness is, what Holiness is, What clean is and abolished the entire Law and Prophets.

But you were not there and neither was Constantine, so you guys instead, "Transform yourselves" into apostles of Christ, Paul teaches all about it. And now it is your mission, as it was Constantine's and Calvin's, and Arminius, and "many" other "Ministers of Righteousness", to turn men away from this God, and away from His Christ, and away from all these foolish Laws HE placed on the necks of men who trusted HIM. And worship the prince of this world, a triune god, with long hair and very handsome profile, who has "Freed you" from the God of Abraham and His Sabbaths, and His Days that start in darkness and end in Light (*How Foolish), and His Laws that crimp your style.

And God placed me in this world where this is the mainstream religion, just as HE placed Noah in this world with the same religion, just as HE placed His Son Jesus, in this world with the same religions. And in every generation, in every example, there are Red Bakers and Constantine's whose promote the universal religious message, "You Don't have to Listen to God", "You shall Surely Not Die". And to convince as many people as you can, that HE doesn't know what HE is talking about. Listen to Red Baker, Constantine and the talking snake instead.

Truly there is no new thing under the Sun. But of course, you and Constantine would teach this too, just like God's Day, and God's Sabbaths are a lie.

Acts 20:7​

“And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.”

Even the Christian Jews went by the same time fame that we do today as early as post Christ's resurrection, in the Acts of the apostles. Acts 16:
Acts 16:25
“And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.”

The first day of the week begun at midnight and lasted until midnight, then a new day begun AT midnight! The same as it does even until now.

If midnight was the beginning of Monday, then "8 days later" when they got together again for lunch and fellowship, would have been Monday.

Your preaching that Jesus was placed in the Grave after Midnight, is foolishness. That you actually believe the Scriptures support such a teaching, is a delusion beyond description. I know you are here on a mission to turn folks away from scriptures, and the God who inspired them, but for those reading along, think about this. According to Red's Posts, The Passover Lamb was slain at Midnight. And all the Law and Prophets are wrong about the Way of the Lord Jesus walked in, but Red and Constantine are right. Just as the talking snake convinced Eve that God is wrong, but he is right.

Same crap, different generation.

If it would help, I can take the arrow on the chart (not meant to be an exact hour by hour, but an overall truth) and just move it past the the 6:00 when the three days and night approximately came to an end, it does not mean that Christ arose dead on three days and night?

It is your custom to move, alter, omit and change whatever needs to be changed, in order to justify your religion. Thi8s has been well documented on this forum. The Chart aligns itself perfectly with the Holy scriptures just as it is. Neither the Bible, not the Chart gives any credence to the Constantinian sabbath. Anyone who knows the Scriptures, knows the Bible didn't change the day, religious men "who professed to know God, but were disobedient to Him", changed the day. The hubris of a man who believes he knows what all the Prophets, Moses, Abraham, Solomon, even Jesus didn't know, that God was going to change His Sanctified Sabbath, and the structure of His Day, 350 years after the death of His Son, is astounding, but not uncommon for prideful men.

Just because you refuse to accept a truth, doesn't make it any less true.

Mark 16:9​

“Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.”

Not on the Jewish Saturday Sabbath of rest. Let's see how well you can read. My youngest grandchild who can read very well at six, knows exactly what these words are saying: “Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week,......."

Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene out of whom he had cast seven devils.

You and Constantine can place your comma's wherever you want. Your preaching that Jesus was placed in the grave at midnight has ZERO Biblical Support. Your preaching that the Passover Lamb was slain at midnight has ZERO Biblical Support. Your preaching that all the Passovers observed by God's Faithful servants in the bible was wrong, but you and Constantine are right, is absurd.

How did the first Church of God under HIS new High Priest know when to gather on Pentecost, if God was so incompetent concerning the creation of His Sabbaths?

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

You and Constantine can place your comma's wherever you want.

The Holy Ghost put that coma where He meant to put it, and it's you that wants to move it in order to support your heresy that Jesus arose on the Jewish Sabbath day.

Your preaching that Jesus was placed in the grave at midnight has ZERO Biblical Support.

I never said those words, show me where I did! Those are your words....somehow you came up with that is beyond me. The chart shows when he was place in the tomb, the scriptures tell us WHEN He arose from the dead, on the first day of the week.

Your overall post is nothing but a spirit out of control saying the same old things over an dover again to each person you post to.

No profit to comment on it again. I have several times over the years.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all,
To all my trinity doctrine believing friends. good morning on this Labor Day celebration. those of you who believe in the trinity must make a critical effort to clearly explain who sits on the throne in Heaven... per Revelation chapter 4 and chapter 5. what's at stake? is it the Father who sits on the throne, or the son, or as some may say both. so, let's look at these scenarios and clearly find out who really sits on the throne in heaven in chapter 4 and 5. the scripture in chapter 4 state "ONLY ONE" sits on the throne, which is only one throne. not any throne or thrones next to it. remember revelation is signified.

A. scenario #1. the "Father" sits on the throne. if so revelation 4:1 1 present a great problem. let's see it. Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created". if the Father "receive" POWER, book, chapter and verse as to who is more powerful than the Father to give the Father POWER.

B. scenario #2. Both, the Father, and Son sits on the throne. ok, if so, who is the slain Lamb, now standing, before the throne?

C. scenario #3. 101G say it is the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne and received "POWER". (read Matthews 28:18, the Great commission) and it is the LORD Jesus who stand before the very throne he sits on as the Lamb, and NOTICE, Not the Lamb of God, but as the Lamb, meaning GLORIFIED in the Spirit, Per John 17:5. now, how can the Lord Jesus sit on the throne and stand before it at the same TIME? answer, "DIVERSITY", in Ordination of FIRST and LAST, and in ROOT and OFFSPRING, in Father and Son in GLORIFICATION as "ONE".

in GLORIFICATION? yes, scripture, Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images". the term "another", here, is the Hebrew term, H312 אַחֵר 'acher (ach-air') adj.
1. (properly) hinder.
2. (generally) next, other, etc.
[from H309]
KJV: (an-)other man, following, next, strange.
Root(s): H309

ANOTHER here is "AFTER", or HINDER, or LAST,
LAST: H314 אַחֲרוֹן 'acharown (ach-ar-one') adj.
אַחֲרֹן 'acharon (ach-ar-one') [shortened]
1. hinder.
2. (generally) late or last.
3. (specifically) (as facing the east) western.
[from H309]
KJV: after (-ward), to come, following, hind(-er, -ermost, -most), last, latter, rereward, ut(ter)most.
Root(s): H309

now the Question, and the Revelation, is this is this ANOTHER, or HINDER, or this LAST is a separate and distinct person from the LORD or is this LAST or HINDER or AFTER person the same PERSON as the LORD. let's see if this is the same one person or not

Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. the FIRST is "WITH" the LAST? , meaning this HINDER PERSON, who is AFTER, is this the same one person? let's see. Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. BINGO, CHECKMATE. the LORD is the First and the Last, meaning he GOD, JESUS, (WHO IS THE LAST, OR HINDER, OR AFTER MAN), is not a separate person of three, but the EQUAL SHARE of ONE PERSON, for he will not GIVE "HIS" GLORY to ANOTHER who is separate and distinct from himself. BY READING Isaiah WE SEE THAT THE FIRST IS THE SAME ONE PERSON AS THE LAST FOR THE THERM "ALSO", MEANS.....in addition; too. MYSTERY SOLVED as to who sits on the throne in revelation chapter 4 and 5. the GLORIFIED GOD, in flesh and bone, (without blood), JESUS himself in Amalgamation, the IMAGE that was to come, the Man, or the LAST ADAM..... this is 2 easy not to understand.

101G suggest all to reason this out, your ... DOCTORIAL BELIEF .. which dictates your WORSHIP, and FAITH hangsin the balance of THIS TRUTH. you heard it first .......

101G.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes, this world's religious system, since Constantine came to save it, has it all figured out, just as the World of Noah's Time had it all figured out, and this world's religions of Jesus' Time, had it all figured out. This world has always had it figured out, as it is written.

Rev. 12: 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Yes Red, you and Constantine and this whole world has it figured out. God is the deceiver.

It's just to bad you and Constantine and Kenneth Copeland couldn't have been there with God in the beginning to instruct Him concerning these things. I mean, according to you and Constantine, God sanctified and set apart the wrong day as Holy And nobody in the Bible knew it. Not Abraham, Moses, or even ONE Prophet. Even the Christ, after HE became a man, didn't know that HE was walking in the Wrong Holy Day, until Constantine came along to straighten out the whole world. And Red Baker is his little helper, how special.

Too bad you guys couldn't have been there to straighten God out on the creation of the Day as well. How stupid it was of God to create a day that anyone, anywhere, could tell when HIS Day started and when His Day ended. You and the prince of this world are much smarter, starting your day at midnight, so your day starts in darkness and ends in darkness, so men would have to buy a clock from you, or ask you if the day was over yet. What a great marketing strategy, and a perfect way to turn men away from a God your posts portray as incompetent, to the prince of this world who has convinced everyone that God was a fool for creating His day to start at sundown.

It's just too bad that you and Kenneth Copeland couldn't have been there in the beginning with God, Since you preach it was God's Fault that perfect and righteous Eve Sinned because HE gave her Laws, but withheld from her the ability to obey them. You would have just "abolished" all laws, well, not all Laws, just the "Beggarly Elements and Yoke of Bondage" you preach God placed on men who trusted Him.

It's too bad you and the Pope weren't there in the beginning, to protect Eve from the force from without her heart, that God placed in the garden, that defiled her. And this because God Sent her into the garden with no warning, and "with no assistance at all" from Him. You would have set God straight about that I'm sure, and wouldn't have placed the talking snake into the garden at all.

It's just too bad you and Constantine were not there with God in the beginning. You would have stopped Him from creating all those "worthless Jewish Laws", all that stupid stuff like knowing clean from unclean, Holy from unholy, righteousness from unrighteousness. All those worthless "Shadows of things yet to come". You and Constantine would have straightened God out concerning the creation of all these things. Instructing God about what Righteousness is, what Holiness is, What clean is and abolished the entire Law and Prophets.

But you were not there and neither was Constantine, so you guys instead, "Transform yourselves" into apostles of Christ, Paul teaches all about it. And now it is your mission, as it was Constantine's and Calvin's, and Arminius, and "many" other "Ministers of Righteousness", to turn men away from this God, and away from His Christ, and away from all these foolish Laws HE placed on the necks of men who trusted HIM. And worship the prince of this world, a triune god, with long hair and very handsome profile, who has "Freed you" from the God of Abraham and His Sabbaths, and His Days that start in darkness and end in Light (*How Foolish), and His Laws that crimp your style.

And God placed me in this world where this is the mainstream religion, just as HE placed Noah in this world with the same religion, just as HE placed His Son Jesus, in this world with the same religions. And in every generation, in every example, there are Red Bakers and Constantine's whose promote the universal religious message, "You Don't have to Listen to God", "You shall Surely Not Die". And to convince as many people as you can, that HE doesn't know what HE is talking about. Listen to Red Baker, Constantine and the talking snake instead.

Truly there is no new thing under the Sun. But of course, you and Constantine would teach this too, just like God's Day, and God's Sabbaths are a lie.




If midnight was the beginning of Monday, then "8 days later" when they got together again for lunch and fellowship, would have been Monday.

Your preaching that Jesus was placed in the Grave after Midnight, is foolishness. That you actually believe the Scriptures support such a teaching, is a delusion beyond description. I know you are here on a mission to turn folks away from scriptures, and the God who inspired them, but for those reading along, think about this. According to Red's Posts, The Passover Lamb was slain at Midnight. And all the Law and Prophets are wrong about the Way of the Lord Jesus walked in, but Red and Constantine are right. Just as the talking snake convinced Eve that God is wrong, but he is right.

Same crap, different generation.



It is your custom to move, alter, omit and change whatever needs to be changed, in order to justify your religion. Thi8s has been well documented on this forum. The Chart aligns itself perfectly with the Holy scriptures just as it is. Neither the Bible, not the Chart gives any credence to the Constantinian sabbath. Anyone who knows the Scriptures, knows the Bible didn't change the day, religious men "who professed to know God, but were disobedient to Him", changed the day. The hubris of a man who believes he knows what all the Prophets, Moses, Abraham, Solomon, even Jesus didn't know, that God was going to change His Sanctified Sabbath, and the structure of His Day, 350 years after the death of His Son, is astounding, but not uncommon for prideful men.

Just because you refuse to accept a truth, doesn't make it any less true.



Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene out of whom he had cast seven devils.

You and Constantine can place your comma's wherever you want. Your preaching that Jesus was placed in the grave at midnight has ZERO Biblical Support. Your preaching that the Passover Lamb was slain at midnight has ZERO Biblical Support. Your preaching that all the Passovers observed by God's Faithful servants in the bible was wrong, but you and Constantine are right, is absurd.

How did the first Church of God under HIS new High Priest know when to gather on Pentecost, if God was so incompetent concerning the creation of His Sabbaths?

To you, and also @Red Baker .

You both can fight over when Jesus was laid in the tomb and when He was raised all you want.

You can fight over 6PM to6 PM v !@:00AM to 12:00 Am all you want.

The PROVABLE POINT IS THIS.

The week Jesus was crucified was during the Jewish celebration of Passover where a Passover meal was served on that most Jews observed on a Wednesday evening and that meant after 6PM.

Ergo, Jesus celebrated the Passover with His disciples AKA The Last Supper the night before his Crucifixion. That would have been after Tue. 6 PM making this before the occurrence of the traditional Passover preparation and celebration.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, all state that Jesus was crucified on the Day of Preparation

side note: This is how they got Friday mixed in as crucifixion day. Friday before 6PM was preparation day for the weekly Sabbath.
That week there were actually 2 preperation days. One for Passover and a second for the weekly Sabbath
side note 2: Are you now gonna argue with me that John said... Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the governor 's headquarters. It was early morning. They themselves did not enter the governor 's headquarters, so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover.

Here is what you must remember and if you did not know, learn it now.
This is beyond simple the way AI states it. Easy to memorize "Passover itself is not a Sabbath, but it is closely associated with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which includes special Sabbaths known as "High Sabbaths." These occur on the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which follows Passover.
For more understanding.... contiinue
Passover itself is not a Sabbath, but it is closely associated with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which includes special Sabbaths known as "High Sabbaths." These occur on the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which follows Passover. thewayofthemessiah.org Wikipedia

Is Passover Considered a Sabbath?​

Passover itself is not classified as a Sabbath. However, it is closely associated with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which begins the day after Passover and includes two special Sabbaths:

• The First Day of Unleavened Bread: This is considered a "high Sabbath" and is a day of rest.
• The Weekly Sabbath: This occurs on the following Saturday.

Key Points​

• Passover Date: Starts at sunset on the 14th of Nisan and ends at nightfall on the 20th of Nisan in 2025.
• Sabbath Observance: During Passover, Jews refrain from eating leavened foods (chametz) and may have specific restrictions similar to those observed on the Sabbath.
• High Sabbath: The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is treated as a Sabbath, meaning no work is permitted.

In summary, while Passover itself is not a Sabbath, it is part of a series of observances that include Sabbaths during the week of the holiday.

Anyone who wants any more information on this, let's talk.

Now we have been told his crucifixion actually began at the 3rd hour, which on the proper day would have been about 9AM. We have also been told

Mark’s account implies that Jesus was on the cross from the third hour, around 9 AM, until the ninth hour, or about 3 PM.
The Bible says that Jesus was placed on the cross at 9 a.m. and darkness covered the land from noon until Jesus’ death at 3 p.m. (Mark 15:25, 33-38).

This would allow the time for His body to be taken down and then lightly wrapped, but not properly prepared and placed in the tomb.

As simply as I can make this...
Wed 6pm to Thur 6PM 1 Night and 1 DAY

Thur 6PM to Fri 6 PM 1 Night and 1 Day

Fri 6PM to Sat 6PM 1Night and 1 Day

Boys and Girls this = 3Nights and 3 Days As it was prophesied.

You cannot get 3 days and 3 nights from Friday anytime to Sunday sunrise.

So, now looking at this when did Jesus resurrect?

It had to have been sometime between Saturday 6PM after the weekly Sabbath and Sunday sunrise.... which is a 12 hour
window of opportunity. Yes the tomb was found empty shortly before sunrise on Sunday... that does not mean he did not rise before then.

But I have no answer for a time specific.

 

[Aaron]

OY. I am in big trouble.

Not to worry, Jesus has your back.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@101G and @Studyman and @Red Baker specifically.

While this back and forth on eternal sonship v incarnate sonship has been at the least entertaining if not enlightening
I know want input from y'all on this.

Especially having just completed a comment section on the "crucifixion" and " resurrection" see reply #609

I am certain y'all know the Apostles creed?

And where it says
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and was buried;
he descended to hell.

Simple question. Is this fact, and if so, during His doing this... when?

1 Peter 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,

#:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

I have no other possible reference and certainly decended is not in this... nor is hell... so where did the apostle's creed come from and if True when did he go?

1. Matthew 12:40

“For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

The timeline from above reply#609 shows the full 3 days and 3 nights as they would have had to be under Jewish laws and dating back then....

Where could he have done this, or was it after he left the tome and saw Mary and spoke to her?

Opinions

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

You might wan to read more before commenting on his post.

M

Thread 'My Kenosis full understanding'

Saturday at 6:53 PM

Friends, allow me to share what I believe is a coherent way to read Scripture —yet I do not present this as dogma. I hold to the principle of “not going beyond what is written” (1 Cor 4:6). What follows is simply my understanding, the interpretation that seems to me most faithful to the biblical pattern. I respect the venerable Nicene tradition, but I cannot impose a word like homoousios which the apostles themselves never used. What I see, rather, is that the key thread running from Genesis to Revelation is the mystery of kenosis —self-emptying love.

THE INTEGRAL...

• Milo Flores
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Doctrine

• 

We are our brothers/sisters keeper!

Now that you all have chased him off... I have been studying this along with some Jewish history and I would
post one but I wont now cause you and I fight enough.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Not to worry, Jesus has your back.

Thank you , brother.

 

[Duane]

thanks Duane, but is man a three person being?

101G

Yes indeed. Body, Soul, Spirit.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes indeed. Body, Soul, Spirit.

Yep, generally referred to as

The three parts of man are referred to in this verse: the body of man which is made of the dust of the ground, the spirit breathed into man's nostrils by the LORD God and the soul which is the union of the other two. Man is a Tripartite Being.

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

The Holy Ghost put that coma where He meant to put it, and it's you that wants to move it in order to support your heresy that Jesus arose on the Jewish Sabbath day.

Salvation is of the Jews. At least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

I never said those words, show me where I did! Those are your words....somehow you came up with that is beyond me. The chart shows when he was place in the tomb,

You said HE was raised from the Dead after Midnight Saturday Night. 3 days and 3 nights before that, would be Wednesday night, after Midnight. You posted the Correct Chart, but you don't even believe it.

7. Jesus rose from the dead as the weekly Sabbath ended – three days and three nights after burial – as prophesied (Matthew 12:39-40; Mark 8:31).

8. While it was still dark, the morning of the first day of the week, the women found the tomb already empty (Matt 28:1-6; Luke 24:1-3; John 20:1).

9. The gospel record of Jesus Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection prove His identifying sign of three days and three nights

Your entire philosophy is founded on the belief that the End of God's Weekly Sabbath is "MIDNIGHT". Read your own posts Red.

Why was HE placed in the Tomb before Sundown on Wednesday? Because God's day ends at Sundown. Your day doesn't, Constantine's day doesn't. But God's Day throughout the entire bible does. It was Him who said He would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. You want to preach to the world that He was in the grave for 3 days and 3.5 nights, you are free to do so.

It's your religion. I was simply pointing out what your own Chart correctly detailed. Now go change it quickly, before someone else notices.

the scriptures tell us WHEN He arose from the dead, on the first day of the week.

No, the Scriptures say when and who Jesus appeared to first. He was already raised from the dead in every case. The Midnight teaching of yours is completely made up by you, to justify your Constantinian sabbath. There is not ONE Prophesy or mention in the entire bible that Jesus was raised after Midnight. Every one who in interested in Biblical Truth knows that their was nothing from God or His Son, that abolished His Holy Sabbath. It was Constantine and the RCC, the Mother of the protectant religions of this world.

Your overall post is nothing but a spirit out of control saying the same old things over an dover again to each person you post to.

No profit to comment on it again. I have several times over the years.

Yes, you should change the subject Red, when the lipstick is taken off of the philosophies of this world's religious system that you are here to defend and promote, it's truly ugly.

Personally I'm glad you were not there to correct God in the beginning. ONE adversary in the garden was plenty for only 2 people.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Salvation is of the Jews. At least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.



You said HE was raised from the Dead after Midnight Saturday Night. 3 days and 3 nights before that, would be Wednesday night, after Midnight. You posted the Correct Chart, but you don't even believe it.

7. Jesus rose from the dead as the weekly Sabbath ended – three days and three nights after burial – as prophesied (Matthew 12:39-40; Mark 8:31).

8. While it was still dark, the morning of the first day of the week, the women found the tomb already empty (Matt 28:1-6; Luke 24:1-3; John 20:1).

9. The gospel record of Jesus Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection prove His identifying sign of three days and three nights

Your entire philosophy is founded on the belief that the End of God's Weekly Sabbath is "MIDNIGHT". Read your own posts Red.

Why was HE placed in the Tomb before Sundown on Wednesday? Because God's day ends at Sundown. Your day doesn't, Constantine's day doesn't. But God's Day throughout the entire bible does. It was Him who said He would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. You want to preach to the world that He was in the grave for 3 days and 3.5 nights, you are free to do so.

It's your religion. I was simply pointing out what your own Chart correctly detailed. Now go change it quickly, before someone else notices.




No, the Scriptures say when and who Jesus appeared to first. He was already raised from the dead in every case. The Midnight teaching of yours is completely made up by you, to justify your Constantinian sabbath. There is not ONE Prophesy or mention in the entire bible that Jesus was raised after Midnight. Every one who in interested in Biblical Truth knows that their was nothing from God or His Son, that abolished His Holy Sabbath. It was Constantine and the RCC, the Mother of the protectant religions of this world.



Yes, you should change the subject Red, when the lipstick is taken off of the philosophies of this world's religious system that you are here to defend and promote, it's truly ugly.

Personally I'm glad you were not there to correct God in the beginning. ONE adversary in the garden was plenty for only 2 people.

You may need to wait a while for a reply because Red is very sick right now. I posted about him in the prayer forum if you are interested.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Hey, to not get between you again Mr IT man.... @praise_yeshua

One laptop the screen is going black and is under warranty cause it sometimes works then dies when I need it.......... but Printer ^(&%#^&*()(* And I mean every word.

A month ago I kept getting an error message it was offline.... and I could not get it to work ... two weeks later in the middle of the night it came on running... and printing. HP /Verizon Fios

A few days ago it went offline again and I have followed instructions til I am blue in the face and
cannot get it even to a factory reset.... And I have 2 passwords, neither are working now. (One from the router and one from HP who had to help set it up remotely.

But 2 days ago the printer printed me a page....Not gonna copy it all here but header says

Welcome to WIFI Direct

It goes on...

WI-FI Direct has been temporarily deactivated because your wifi network is currently using a restricted
5Ghz channel 132 (DFH) Because this channel is used by radar systems WI-FI Direct is unable to operate using this channel in the printer.

This is all bolded.

I think I have messed it up badly playing around but I cannot carry it to Best Buy, it is too heavy for me.

Question.

Do you think if I get the big laptop fixed that I could move this smaller one next tot the printer and hook it up with a USB cable?

All of these pieces are 3 years old. The printer has an extended warranty on it too (This does not)
but it is just too heavy for me to carry with a cane.

FYI It was a router that caused all 3 to act up. They did a reset by phone and all is well.

In case you ever hear of this from anyone.

Bye

 

[Studyman]

To you, and also @Red Baker .

You both can fight over when Jesus was laid in the tomb and when He was raised all you want.

You can fight over 6PM to6 PM v !@:00AM to 12:00 Am all you want.

The PROVABLE POINT IS THIS.

The week Jesus was crucified was during the Jewish celebration of Passover where a Passover meal was served on that most Jews observed on a Wednesday evening and that meant after 6PM.

Actually, Passover and Feast of Unleavened bread, are "Feasts of the Lord". Both Homeborn Jews, and Non-Jews who sojourned with them, were to observe it. The Jews had polluted the Feasts over the years, but Jesus and the Disciples remained obedient to the Feast. The "Last Supper" would have taken place on Tuesday night, just after Sundown which would mark the beginning of Passover. This is was shown in the Exodus, when Israel Ate the Passover Lamb, then gathered all their families and supplies to depart from Egypt. (Symbolic of leaving Sin), and the being "Unleavened" for 7 days, signifying a life striving against sin.

So if you read the actual account, Jesus ate the Passover meal on Tuesday Eve, after Sundown. You are right that "most Jews" followed a different tradition. Jesus speaks to this a lot in His description of the mainstream preachers of His Time.

Ergo, Jesus celebrated the Passover with His disciples AKA The Last Supper the night before his Crucifixion. That would have been after Tue. 6 PM making this before the occurrence of the traditional Passover preparation and celebration.

This is true FIC. Jesus followed the "Law of Moses" concerning Passover, while most Jews followed the Tradition of the Pharisees. It is cool that you know this, many, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, do not.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, all state that Jesus was crucified on the Day of Preparation.

Yes, just as the Passover Lamb was to be killed on the Day of Preparation for the First Day of Unleavened bread, a High Sabbath of God.

side note: This is how they got Friday mixed in as crucifixion day. Friday before 6PM was preparation day for the weekly Sabbath.
That week there were actually 2 preperation days. One for Passover and a second for the weekly Sabbath

Yes, Passover was Preparation Day, for the First Day of Unleavened Bread, a Most Holy Sabbath. Think about that for a moment. "Passover was Preparation for the Journey of a life without sin."

In God's Kingdom, Passover the very beginning of Salvation, not the End. I find this Biblical Fact wonderful and enlightening. It's great that we can talk about it so freely.

side note 2: Are you now gonna argue with me that John said... Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the governor 's headquarters. It was early morning. They themselves did not enter the governor 's headquarters, so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover.

Yes, it is true what Jesus taught about the Pharisees, "They taught for Doctrines the Commandments of men", not God. It is important to note that Jesus and the Disciples, and other Faithful believers before that, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, etc., would have understood the Feasts of the Lord. I'm sure you know this.

Here is what you must remember and if you did not know, learn it now.
This is beyond simple the way AI states it. Easy to memorize "Passover itself is not a Sabbath, but it is closely associated with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which includes special Sabbaths known as "High Sabbaths." These occur on the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which follows Passover.

You are absolutely Biblically Correct. Passover was not a Sabbath, but a Preparation Day for this most Holy High Sabbath, "the First day of Unleavened Bread", a 7 day Feast that ends with another High Sabbath, "the Last Day of Unleavened Bread". (Signifying the final rest at the end of our journey.) Then 7 Sabbaths, "After the morrow" of the Last Sabbath, is Pentecost. The First Church of God under God's New High Priest, (Body of Christ) counted the days correctly so as to be gathered on this most Holy "Feast of the Lord".

Paul understood the significance of these Feasts.

1 Cor. 5: 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is great FIC.

For more understanding.... contiinue
Passover itself is not a Sabbath, but it is closely associated with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which includes special Sabbaths known as "High Sabbaths." These occur on the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which

Is Passover Considered a Sabbath?​

Passover itself is not classified as a Sabbath. However, it is closely associated with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which begins the day after Passover and includes two special Sabbaths:

Our family lives in the way of the Lord, and I have found these truths through Study some 30 years ago now. But I understand it isn't taught much in this world's religious system. Nevertheless, I never get tired of talking and fellowshipping about the way of the Lord. It is a less followed Path, sadly, but truly a journey worth adopting.

• The First Day of Unleavened Bread: This is considered a "high Sabbath" and is a day of rest.
• The Weekly Sabbath: This occurs on the following Saturday.

Key Points​

• Passover Date: Starts at sunset on the 14th of Nisan and ends at nightfall on the 20th of Nisan in 2025.
• Sabbath Observance: During Passover, Jews refrain from eating leavened foods (chametz) and may have specific restrictions similar to those observed on the Sabbath.
• High Sabbath: The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is treated as a Sabbath, meaning no work is permitted.

In summary, while Passover itself is not a Sabbath, it is part of a series of observances that include Sabbaths during the week of the holiday.

Anyone who wants any more information on this, let's talk.

It was honoring and respecting God in these Feasts of the Lord, that brought the First Church under God's New High Priest to Pentecost, and their obedience is what prompted God to give them His Holy Spirit. Peter speaks to this.

Acts 5: 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted "with his right hand" to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, "whom God hath given" to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

To this day is riles up many, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord" when you tell them God gives His Spirit to them that obey Him. I find this fascinating.

Now we have been told his crucifixion actually began at the 3rd hour, which on the proper day would have been about 9AM. We have also been told

Mark’s account implies that Jesus was on the cross from the third hour, around 9 AM, until the ninth hour, or about 3 PM.
The Bible says that Jesus was placed on the cross at 9 a.m. and darkness covered the land from noon until Jesus’ death at 3 p.m. (Mark 15:25, 33-38).

This would allow the time for His body to be taken down and then lightly wrapped, but not properly prepared and placed in the tomb.

Yes, and they were in a hurry to get Him in the grave "BEFORE" Sundown, which would begin the High Sabbath, "The First Day of Unleavened Bread".

Matt. 27: 59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. 61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

This wasn't Sabbath Yet, as both Mary's were still at the Grave site.

62 Now the next day, "that followed the day of the preparation", the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate. (Truly the Pharisees had Polluted God's Sabbaths, as it is written)

Mark 15: 42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day "before the sabbath",

43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. 44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead. 45 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph. 46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre. 47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.

Again, the High Sabbath had not yet Come, the Mary's were still at the Grave.

1 And when the (High) sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

Clearly Jesus was placed "IN THE GRAVE" before the Coming High Sabbath Wednesday which began at Sundown.

There is nothing in Scriptures whatsoever, that would indicate that Jesus didn't raise from the Dead, on the Holy Sabbath HE Himself sanctified and made Holy from the very creation. After all, it is written;

Rev. 13: 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the "book of life of the Lamb" slain "from the foundation of the world".

The teaching that God/Christ didn't know what Day of the Week Jesus would raised from the dead, when they set apart and Sanctified "The Day of the Lord", AKA, "The 7th day of the Week", makes no sense to me, a nobody who has lived the benefit of God's Laws that HE said were created for man.

As simply as I can make this...
Wed 6pm to Thur 6PM 1 Night and 1 DAY

Thur 6PM to Fri 6 PM 1 Night and 1 Day

Fri 6PM to Sat 6PM 1Night and 1 Day

Boys and Girls this = 3Nights and 3 Days As it was prophesied.

You cannot get 3 days and 3 nights from Friday anytime to Sunday sunrise.

So, now looking at this when did Jesus resurrect?

It had to have been sometime between Saturday 6PM after the weekly Sabbath and Sunday sunrise.... which is a 12 hour
window of opportunity. Yes the tomb was found empty shortly before sunrise on Sunday... that does not mean he did not rise before then.

But I have no answer for a time specific.

Why does it "have to be" after Sundown on Passover, the Day of Preparation? The only reason it seems, is to justify the sabbath of the RCC that even they preach wasn't changed by anything taught or prophesied in the Scriptures.

You have a great deal of knowledge concerning these things. I hope you might dig into the Light a little further, even if it means exposing a doctrine in your heart that might not be true, according to scriptures. I mean, isn't this the very reason why God Gave us His Holy Scriptures on our Journey out of Sin in the first place? That HE might little by little, expose deceptions lodged in our hearts, by listening to the "other voices" in the garden HE placed us in?

 

[101G]

I have no other possible reference and certainly decended is not in this... nor is hell... so where did the apostle's creed come from and if True when did he go?

Three reference, Acts 2:25 "For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:" Acts 2:26 "Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:" Acts 2:27 "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." NOW THE SUPPORTIVE SCRIPTURE Of this. Ephesians 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men." Ephesians 4:9 "(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

John 20:11 "But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre," John 20:12 "And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain." John 20:13 "And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him." John 20:14 "And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus." John 20:15 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away." John 20:16 "Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master." John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
but he had ascended from the dead, (HELL), Just a Ephesians 4 and Acts 2 clearly states.

Now Lets see this in the O.T. the ascending and the descending, where the gospel was preached to the LIVING and the DEAD, first. Deuteronomy 30:11 "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off." Deuteronomy 30:12 "It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?" Deuteronomy 30:13 "Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?" Deuteronomy 30:14 "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

did not the apostle Paul quoted this in Romans 10:6 "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above" Romans 10:7 "Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)" Romans 10:8 "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"

did not the Lord Jesus PREACHED to the spirit in prison as the apostle Peter said?

101G.