brightfame52
Active Member
You confusing yourself
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Active Member
Drawing to Christ is not a invitation, you made that up. The drawing is a conversion to Christ.
civic
Active Member
the drawing to Christ is not conversion, you made that up.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Why do people who are predestined have to be converted to Christ.
They are predestined ergo according to Ai Search Assist
In the context of predestination, those who are predestined by God are considered saved, as this doctrine teaches that God has chosen certain individuals for salvation before the foundation of the world.
THEY ARE PREDESTINED> THEY ARE THE ELECT> THEY ARE SAVED> WHAT ARE THEY BEING CONVERTED TO AND FROM WHAT?
@brightfame52 , I promise you I will let this drop here but I want you to read the following that I just saw and thought it could be helpful to explain....
Predestination vs. Jesus’ Salvation and Free Will - Walk With Scripture
What does the Bible say about predestination and free will? Does God predestine salvation, or do we choose Christ? Discover biblical answers.
walkwithscripture.com
Common Questions
Predestination vs. Jesus’ Salvation and Free Will: What Does the Bible Say?
byWalk with Scripture
–
February 9, 2025
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it is a conversion, they already been reconciled to God by the Death of Christ Rom 5:10. See the death of Christ and the lifting up of Christ in Jn 12:32 are the same thing.
brightfame52
Active Member
Rabbit trail
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Is a scarecrow the same as a strawman?
I think maybe on that rabbit trail it is....
civic
Active Member
you are good at them.
Nope as drawing does not necessitate faith
The Greek word for “drawn” is used in the LXX in Neh 9:30… (esdras 19:30) and that group of Israelites, though drawn by God to the opportunity to obey Him, did not do it.
Nehemiah 9:30 (YLT)
30 `And Thou drawest over them many years, and testifiest against them by Thy Spirit, by the hand of Thy prophets, and they have not given ear, and Thou dost give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,
The Hebrew word for “drawn” used in Neh 9:30 is also used in Hos 11:4-5, which again is showing that Israel was “drawn” by God with love to Himself, but they refused Him. Brian Wagner
Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying,
Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love:
Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel:
Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets,
And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
brightfame52
Active Member
The drawing culminates in conversion to Christ, which necessitates faith. believing in Christ
Ive shown that the word draw metaphorically means this:
2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας ... ἑλκουσης ἐπί ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32.Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)
To win someone heart over over to myself means: To persuade. Faith is being persuaded, its made of the word pistis from peithō:
persuade
- to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe
- to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one
So there you go, thats what study shows
You ignored this
The Greek word for “drawn” is used in the LXX in Neh 9:30… (esdras 19:30) and that group of Israelites, though drawn by God to the opportunity to obey Him, did not do it.
Nehemiah 9:30 (YLT)
30 `And Thou drawest over them many years, and testifiest against them by Thy Spirit, by the hand of Thy prophets, and they have not given ear, and Thou dost give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,
The Hebrew word for “drawn” used in Neh 9:30 is also used in Hos 11:4-5, which again is showing that Israel was “drawn” by God with love to Himself, but they refused Him. Brian Wagner
Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying,
Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love:
Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel:
Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets,
And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
brightfame52
Active Member
I haven't ignored anything, but explained what drawing entails according to Jn 6:44, and 12:32 it conversion to Christ, not a chance possibility, that would undermined Gods Salvation
Of course you ignored it, as you never addressed it
You ignored this
The Greek word for “drawn” is used in the LXX in Neh 9:30… (esdras 19:30) and that group of Israelites, though drawn by God to the opportunity to obey Him, did not do it.
Nehemiah 9:30 (YLT)
30 `And Thou drawest over them many years, and testifiest against them by Thy Spirit, by the hand of Thy prophets, and they have not given ear, and Thou dost give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,
The Hebrew word for “drawn” used in Neh 9:30 is also used in Hos 11:4-5, which again is showing that Israel was “drawn” by God with love to Himself, but they refused Him. Brian Wagner
Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying,
Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love:
Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel:
Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets,
And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
brightfame52
Active Member
No I haven't, I agree with the verses you posted. They dont change that Jn 6:44; 12:32 the drawing is a conversion to Christ
I showed you the word draw in its metaphorical sense it denotes being won over to Christ, conversion:
To win over someone is to persuade them. Now Faith is by definition made from the greek word
πίστις pístis, pis'-tis; from G3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation;
- persuade
- to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe
- to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one
- to tranquillise
- to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something
- be persuaded
Sorry you ignored the point
Here we had a drawing which did not result in what you claim.
The Greek word for “drawn” is used in the LXX in Neh 9:30… (esdras 19:30) and that group of Israelites, though drawn by God to the opportunity to obey Him, did not do it.
Nehemiah 9:30 (YLT)
30 `And Thou drawest over them many years, and testifiest against them by Thy Spirit, by the hand of Thy prophets, and they have not given ear, and Thou dost give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,
The Hebrew word for “drawn” used in Neh 9:30 is also used in Hos 11:4-5, which again is showing that Israel was “drawn” by God with love to Himself, but they refused Him. Brian Wagner
Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying,
Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love:
Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel:
Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets,
And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
brightfame52
Active Member
No I didn't, has nothing to do with Jn 6:44; 12:32 changes nothing, drawing here is Spiritual Conversion to Christ
Sorry but you are ignoring the use of the word draw
Here we had a drawing which did not result in what you claim.
The Greek word for “drawn” is used in the LXX in Neh 9:30… (esdras 19:30) and that group of Israelites, though drawn by God to the opportunity to obey Him, did not do it.
Nehemiah 9:30 (YLT)
30 `And Thou drawest over them many years, and testifiest against them by Thy Spirit, by the hand of Thy prophets, and they have not given ear, and Thou dost give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,
The Hebrew word for “drawn” used in Neh 9:30 is also used in Hos 11:4-5, which again is showing that Israel was “drawn” by God with love to Himself, but they refused Him. Brian Wagner
Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying,
Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love:
Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel:
Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets,
And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
brightfame52
Active Member
No I'm not, I showed you my research on draw for Jn 12 32 and Jn 6 44. You show nothing to change that
You ignore the point. The word draw is used more than two times
The Greek word for “drawn” is used in the LXX in Neh 9:30… (esdras 19:30) and that group of Israelites, though drawn by God to the opportunity to obey Him, did not do it.
Nehemiah 9:30 (YLT)
30 `And Thou drawest over them many years, and testifiest against them by Thy Spirit, by the hand of Thy prophets, and they have not given ear, and Thou dost give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,
The Hebrew word for “drawn” used in Neh 9:30 is also used in Hos 11:4-5, which again is showing that Israel was “drawn” by God with love to Himself, but they refused Him. Brian Wagner
Jeremiah 31:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying,
Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love:
Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel:
Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets,
And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
I gave you three additional examples you just ignored.
