brightfame52
Active Member
Correct that's why it's through His resurrection, faith is the fruit of Christ's Resurrection, so he is the author of it, the causer of it
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
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Doug Brents
Active Member
Everything you said is exactly backwards. Talking to you has become as productive as talking to a brick wall: pointless. When you truly want to discuss truth, and learn of God, we can talk some more. 'Till then, you are a waste of time.
Eisegetics may be fun but it hardly points the way into the truth. Personal faith in an interpretation of scripture is not strengthened by the numbers of followers of that conviction.
Starting with the rabbis studying Moses who decided that Adam and all men were created on earth, the church has had thousands of years to define their truth about our creation such that when a person reads the versess, they do not realize they are reading an interpretation in their head but think they are reading a truth on the page.
In other words, any verse that conveys the idea of our pre-earth existence has rarely been interpreted this way before because almost every reader automatically looks for a different interpretation when they read such an interpretation. This being the case, a mere list of Scriptures will not constitute proof of scriptural support for this doctrine but, to provide such proof, such a list will have to be accompanied by an in-depth exegesis of the said Scriptures and then fight the uphill battle of explanation.
That you have never seen an interpretation of our pre-earth existence in the bible does NOT mean it is not there when it is just as possible that our being created on earth bias has taken over as the ONLY interpretation. A verse that can be interpreted to infer our pre-earth existence but which is ignored because of our created on earth bias is called a hint, just like the Divine suffering Messiah was hinted at throughout the scripture but not recognized due to the bias of the rabbis.
Take the most well know verse that HINTS at our pre-earth life: Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Everyone when they first read this says, "Hey, does this say we were alive before we were in the womb?" and quickly learns that not only does it not mean this but is maybe even a hated Mormon doctrine. An obvious meaning that is rejected due to a theological position is a hint. It is obvious that the verse can have this meaning but theology has chosen to ignore it for another meaning - GOD only knew us pre-earth in HIS imagination - otherwise it upsets orthodox doctrine which means doctrine is used to find a verse's meaning rather than the meaning being found in the verse to create doctrine...
That all verses that are hints to pce have been interpreted as something else for centuries means that you can read them and never even see that they might contain a hint to pce, nor can you find a commentary that accepts our pre-conception existence though the best will mention it.
synergy
Active Member
Romans 9 does not teach that God arbitrarily manufactures certain people for hell; rather, it shows that God, in His sovereignty, permits those who persistently reject Him to become vessels of wrath. The text says God “endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,” implying that they fitted themselves for that fate through rebellion, while God actively “prepared beforehand” the vessels of mercy for glory.
Moreover, Scripture consistently affirms that God “desires all men to be saved” (1 Tim. 2:4) and is “not willing that any should perish” (2 Pet. 3:9). Therefore, Romans 9 portrays God’s sovereign patience toward the rebellious and His mercy toward believers, not a fatalistic decree of eternal destinies fixed at creation.
So stop with the propagating of your damning calvinist heresies which you are responsible for.
Doug Brents
Active Member
ROTFLMBO
So you are saying that you personally have more insight into Scripture the Christ the Lord? Or His Apostles to whom He opened the Scriptures so that they had understanding? No, my poor deluded friend, Jer 1:5 does not even hint at pce. We know that God knew the results of His creation before He created anything. He knew and made plans for the Fall, the coming of Jesus, His death and resurrection, and this conversation. When and where does Jer 1:5 say that Jeremiah was formed? IN THE WOMB. He wasn't formed in Heaven and then placed into the womb. Read the full passage, even the full verse, and then formulate your doctrine. SMH
brightfame52
Active Member
No it's not
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes Romans 9 does teach that God as the great Potter, made some of mankind for honor and Glory and some of mankind for wrath and destruction. The vessels of wrath are fitted for destruction, that word fitted in the original is also said to be in the passive voice either way they do fit themselves because they have no choice, since God purpose when he made them they would be vessels of wrath fitted for destruction
Doug Brents
Active Member
You cannot prove it with Scripture. All you can do is contradict the truth given to you with Satan's drivel.
brightfame52
Active Member
You right I can't prove scripture to you truth to you that's the spirit's job, but it's been proven to me.
Doug Brents
Active Member
@TedT: What has been "proven" to you completely contradicts Scripture. Only Satan and his minions spout such falsehoods.
brightfame52
Active Member
No it doesn't and you can't prove that to me
Doug Brents
Active Member
You're right. Satan has you so wrapped up in His lies that you cannot see God's light.
brightfame52
Active Member
I would say the same thing about you young man
Doug Brents
Active Member
You would be wrong (as you are with most of what you say).
Please show me ANYWHERE in Scripture where it says that faith is a result of salvation. You cannot do it without twisting the Scripture (as Satan always does).
brightfame52
Active Member
As likewise I say the same for you.
I've shown you my biblical reason why and you don't receive it.
You ignored the fact Calvinism teaches God does make alive those who do not believe.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You have shown no passages of Scripture that even hint at faith being a result of salvation. Please, show even one verse that truly says that it is.
brightfame52
Active Member
One believes after they are made alive that's just regeneration before faith
brightfame52
Active Member
I've shown you my biblical reason why and you don't receive it
dwight92070
Active Member
Huh? I thought John said: "... and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." Would you care to correct your statement?
