No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

Again... I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call.

So, you think God is in the "Telemarketing" ~ business! Interesting.

The God of the scriptures is a Sovereign King, that doeth according to his will, and none can stay his will.

Daniel 4:35​

“And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?”

 

[Red Baker]

@TibiasDad

Not according to John 3:16. God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only son in order that whoever believes in him should not perish but should have life everlasting.

The hina clause, “in order that whoever believes in him” becomes the contingency of what follows . This is due to the use of the subjunctive mood used in the final clause, namely, “should not perish” but “should have life everlasting.” The use of the subjunctive expresses the result is contingent upon the believing occurring first. Believing precedes eternal life being given. Eternal life is the consequence of believing occurring.

The language can mean nothing else, period!

Let us see if you are correct.

John 3:16-18~"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

You said: “in order that whoever believes in him” ~ you have added your own version by saying..."in order that".... thus making John 3:16 a conditional scripture for eternal life, which Christ never intended this to be, never.

In John 3:16-18 the Lord Jesus was "declaring" a biblical truth taught all through the scriptures. The declaration Christ is stating is very clear to any unbias reader: God so loved the world, Jews and Gentiles, and among these, that whosoever among them that believes in him should perish, but have everlasting life. The Lord continue declaring truths in 17,18 verses found in other scriptures in the Bible, concerning His Son. Not even a hint of a condition a man must do to have eternal life, after all, God sent this Son to do those conditions required by the law of God, which he perfectly performed.

Galatians 2:21​

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

 

[Red Baker]

@Kampioen

That's becaus a man is saved by the time he has faith. There is no gap. God knows when a man has faith. But it is because he has faith.

Being born of God, and having faith in the scriptures are not one and the same act. The New birth is a creation of a new man within God's elect by the Spirit of God. He is created after the image of Jesus Christ. From that point forward, that person has the power to believe, repent, and do spiritual acts pleasing unto God, but not until being born of God, impossible. There's definitely a gap period between being born of God, and actually coming to faith in the same. When a new born baby is born into this world, what does that infant truly knows about anything as far as that goes? Not a thing. I just had a great grandson son born, and I went to visit him, all he did was sleep, eat, etc., he never knew I was there, and will never know it. All he wanted was a pap, and that's normal of LIFE being present. There's a growing period where he comes to know many things and it happens very fast, for the most part. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, but this is only so for those who have a new man within them, impossible for those not born first of God.

 

[Kampioen]

@Kampioen

Being born of God, and having faith in the scriptures are not one and the same act. The New birth is a creation of a new man within God's elect by the Spirit of God. He is created after the image of Jesus Christ. From that point forward, that person has the power to believe, repent, and do spiritual acts pleasing unto God, but not until being born of God, impossible. There's definitely a gap period between being born of God, and actually coming to faith in the same. When a new born baby is born into this world, what does that infant truly knows about anything as far as that goes? Not a thing. I just had a great grandson son born, and I went to visit him, all he did was sleep, eat, etc., he never knew I was there, and will never know it. All he wanted was a pap, and that's normal of LIFE being present. There's a growing period where he comes to know many things and it happens very fast, for the most part. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, but this is only so for those who have a new man within them, impossible for those not born first of God.

Did this man do the wrong thing by seeking salvation? ...

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Does an unsaved man ever do works of God?

Does a saved man ever do anything not of God?

Can a Arminian be a saved man? If so, Why?

Can a saved man become an Arminian?

 

[Peterlag]

@Peterlag

So, you think God is in the "Telemarketing" ~ business! Interesting.

The God of the scriptures is a Sovereign King, that doeth according to his will, and none can stay his will.

Daniel 4:35​

“And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?”

Yes God called. You can call it telemarketing if you want...

Romans 8:28, 30
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@TibiasDad

Let us see if you are correct.

You said: “in order that whoever believes in him” ~ you have added your own version by saying..."in order that".... thus making John 3:16 a conditional scripture for eternal life, which Christ never intended this to be, never.

In John 3:16-18 the Lord Jesus was "declaring" a biblical truth taught all through the scriptures. The declaration Christ is stating is very clear to any unbias reader: God so loved the world, Jews and Gentiles, and among these, that whosoever among them that believes in him should perish, but have everlasting life. The Lord continue declaring truths in 17,18 verses found in other scriptures in the Bible, concerning His Son. Not even a hint of a condition a man must do to have eternal life, after all, God sent this Son to do those conditions required by the law of God, which he perfectly performed.

Galatians 2:21​

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

@Red Baker

So if you were reading

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten

See Luke 1:35 Son, so that everyone who believes (see explanation) in Him may not perish, but may have everlasting life. (A Faithful Version)

In place of

King James Version (KJV) states: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

You would find fault?

 

[Red Baker]

@Red Baker

So if you were reading

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten

See Luke 1:35 Son, so that everyone who believes (see explanation) in Him may not perish, but may have everlasting life. (A Faithful Version)

In place of

King James Version (KJV) states: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

You would find fault?

I have not had a chance to even consider what you are asking, but did enjoy/agree with this part: (see explanation)

 

[Red Baker]

Yes God called. You can call it telemarketing if you want...

Romans 8:28, 30
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Here's the deal: when God calls they come forth!

John 6:37​

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

Romans 9:19​

“Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?”

Romans 9:24​

“Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

 

[FreeInChrist]

I have not had a chance to even consider what you are asking, but did enjoy/agree with this part: (see explanation)

Ah, yes..... To be “born of water” refers to one’s natural fleshly birth. To be “born of Spirit” refers to the resurrection from the dead to eternal life as a glorified spirit being, and not to an emotional “conversion experience.” (see Appendix P) (A Faithful Version)

This is an interesting translation and one that I am 99% behind.....

But glad you agree with this from the explanation.... it is 100% as I have been talking about Jesus' answer to Nick's on how to be born again and the water, flesh comment of Jesus.....

 

[TibiasDad]

You said: “in order that whoever believes in him” ~ you have added your own version by saying..."in order that".... thus making John 3:16 a conditional scripture for eternal life, which Christ never intended this to be, never.

The word “that” is the word “hina” which literally translates as “in order that”. It establishes a condition. God created fruit trees in order that man could eat.
God gave his one and only son, in order that whoever believes in him should not perish, but should have life everlasting.

If you can’t have eternal life without believing, believing is a condition. If you condemn someone for not doing or having something, that something is a condition.

I could accuse you of taking words out of the scripture by just using the word “that”, but then again “that” in this construct always implies “in order that” showing purpose. Perhaps you’ve just learned something of which you we’re ignorant?

Doug

 

[Red Baker]

@Kampioen

Does an unsaved man ever do works of God?

No, impossible. Even the plowing of a man is sin, if not done in faith Proverbs 21:4! Everything a wicked man does is sin. God rejects his looks, heart, actions. He is deeper in trouble every day (Romans 2:5). Even innocent things like his plowing are sin (Titus 1:15,16). God once drowned the world when He saw man’s every thought was evil (Genesis 6:5).

Romans 8:7,8​

“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

Matthew 7:16​

“Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

Does a saved man ever do anything not of God?

It too vague of a question. But, I will say this: Our very best and most holy moments has sin mixed with it when measure by the law of God.

Romans 7:24​

“O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”

We live in a body of sin and death.

Can a Arminian be a saved man? If so, Why?

Can he born again? Yes, for salvation from sin and condemnation is not based on our knowledge of the truth. But, if you ask is he saved in a practical sense having true knowledge of the truth, then that's clear that he is not, and yet needs a salvation from being ignorant to the knowledge of the truth as it is in Jesus Christ.

Can a saved man become an Arminian?

He's already one in his heart by birth. I think a child of God man can lose the truth on any given subject, if not, then all the warnings given in the scriptures are given in vain.

Did this man do the wrong thing by seeking salvation? ...

Acts 16:30 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Saved this one for last on purpose.

It is a shame Arminian heretics have abused this text as a cry for regeneration by the sound of words. But if you have heard them use Rev 3:20, you know they are capable of any corruption of sense. If they were consistent, they would build an evangelistic tool from Peter’s words (Matt 14:30)! Denying man’s depravity and adoring freewill, they think all are an earthquake from salvation! They forget that Jesus said even a resurrection from the dead will not persuade (Luke 16:31)

If this was a sincere question for spiritual truth about God and salvation, he was already born again. There are none that fear God or seek God naturally, so any true fear or seeking were by God! A broken and contrite heart that got the apostle’s sincere response was a result of regeneration! Jesus answered insincere persons with provocative and confusing answers (John 6:24-66; 8:30-59). Since the time of his regeneration is not identified, we do not know on what side of Paul’s cry. Spirit regeneration is like the wind, it blows where it wills, and we only see evidence (John 3:8).

What in the world was the jailor seeking? Can we find the sense (Nehemiah 8:8; 2nd Timothy 2:15)? We do not settle theological or sotierological issues by historical accounts of speculations by pagans! Nebuchadnezzar declared he saw a man in the fiery furnace like the Son of God (Daniel 3:25)! We first know this speculative guess is wrong by the rest of scripture (Luke 1:35; John 1:14). We second know this speculative guess is wrong by the ignorance of the speaker (Daniel 3:1-6). And in this particular case of Nebuchadnezzar, the context explains he saw an angel (Dan 3:28).

The jailor’s request was not that of a theological student but rather a terrified pagan Roman.

Consider then the things that by context and scriptural declarations of grace he might have thought. He may have feared the earthquake and spoke like Peter (Matt 14:30), but we grant him more. He was afraid of the consequences of prisoners escaping, but we give him credit for more here. The creation reveals God’s eternal power, and regeneration makes it convicting (Rom 1:18-23). The providence of the situation also revealed divine power, which is further convicting as above. The conscience of the man, the candle of the Lord, was pricked by Paul’s response (Ac 16:28). With the longings of Cornelius, but much more ignorant, he sought hope toward God and life. Under great fear and conviction, he was seeking peace with God and hope for a hopeless life. Maybe he knew the frequent testimony of the devil-possessed damsel about the men (Ac 16:17). He likely had vague notions, made lively by regeneration, of God and coming eternal judgment. He did not do more than what God expects your conduct to solicit from others (Ist Peter 3:15). As shown above, and as could be proved by many scriptures, he was already born again before faith.

So, to answer your question, he did what any sincere person would have done whom the Spirit of God had opened his heart. The earthquake could have killed them all, but God spare them for the very reason that is recorded for us to see.