praise_yeshua
Active Member
Most every Calvinist I've ever meet will say they believe in freewill while denying it with their theology.
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Need a reason to believe Calvinists are who they claim to be?
- Thread starter Titus
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Most every Calvinist I've ever meet will say they believe in freewill while denying it with their theology.
civic
Active Member
Neither Jim nor I believe God gives an unbeliever faith so they can believe. Jesus clearly taught the person He healed or saved it was their faith that healed and saved them, not the faith He gave them. Calvinists teach God both regenerates and gives faith prior to them even hearing the gospel. That’s grave error
Titus
Active Member
Hebrews 4:12,
- for the word of God is living and powerfull and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and Spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a decerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart
Ephesians 6:17,
- and take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Holy Spirit which is the word of God
Acts 2:37,
- now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart(sword of the Holy Spirit word of God)
and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, man and brethren what shall we do
It was the word of God that pierced their hearts. The gospel preached by Peter is what they were born again of.
Not before they heard the gospel but after the power of the gospel the sword of the Holy Spirit pierced their hearts to faith and obedience.
Romans 10:17,
- faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God(the Holy Spirit's sword that pierces the hearts of men.
The word of God transforms the heart, regeneration by hearing THE FAITH never before Faith.
1 Corinthians 4:15,
- for though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you by the gospel
Born again by the gospel of Jesus Christ never before hearing the faith.
This is how the Holy Spirit works in mans salvation, regeneration. Its through the divine revelation of the Holy Spirit. The sword of the Spirit that has the power to pierce the hearts of men.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
You missed a very important one.....
Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Notice the very words of God are life in and of themselves. They are innately..... alive.
Whether written or spoken, they carry with them the innate qualities of life.
@Titus
Titus, why do you not take the scriptures provided for you and based upon that then refute my post? I've posted several post to you with zero response. Is it true you are not able to do so. Your accusations are just that, nothing more than weak accusations since you have refused to take my scriptures and arguments and prove them unscriptural, which is what you should be doing, if you truly believe you have the truth.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Properly speaking, this is in opposition to the gnostic notion of a sinless spirit. Sin is spiritual in nature, not physical. Thus, Jesus’s teaching that it’s not what goes into the body that is sinful, but what comes out of the heart.
οὐ δύναται, “not able” is not in the sense of “impossible” to sin, but rather in the sense that now that I am born again, I cannot continue in the sinfulness of my past. This, it infers that I am able to not sin at any given moment because of the Holy Spirit in me. Much the same as since I am married, I cannot date other women.
This is the glory of Romans 8: 1-3 and 12-13. We are able to say no to the sinful nature and yes to the Spirit! All this is due to being born of God!
Doug
Titus
Active Member
You never answered my question directly.
Until then I may or may not address the scriptures you post.
I'm not interested in debating every verse you want to discuss.
I am interested in pointing out the most blindingly obvious unscriptual teachings of yours.
That is effective for others to see, so they may know you do not have the Holy Spirit guiding you.
Anyone who speaks against the revelation of the Holy Spirit obviously cannot be guided by the Holy Spirit.
I already told you, I will never become a calvinist.
And I will never let you pigeon hole me into a situation that decieves the listeners into thinking you are giving Biblical responses.
That is my job as a Christian.
Not to go along with your wants, desires to appease you.
@Titus
As I have said to you Sunday after I return, context is king, and it will drive the interpretation for us with God helping us. Listen carefully to what the writer is saying:
The word of God in Hebrews 4:12 is Jesus Christ the Living Word of God! I am not here to shame you, you are doing a pretty good job yourself!
Titus, do you feel comfortable of thinking you understand this verse? Well, you miss the mark again, yet you are the man that thinks we do not need divine intervention in understanding God's word.
As I have said to you Sunday after I return, context is king, and it will drive the interpretation for us with God helping us. Listen carefully to what the writer is saying:
Hebrews 4:12
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.”The word of God in Hebrews 4:12 is Jesus Christ the Living Word of God! I am not here to shame you, you are doing a pretty good job yourself!
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
neither do I
which is why I asked
Again we are in complete agreement
so i ask again, why would you like a post he made. which was contrary to everything I have said since I started this conversation?
that would be like me watching you discuss with someone who continually accuses you falsely of something, then liking what he said.
@Titus
I did Titus, but you can do as you desire to. You do not want to be put into a situation that exposes your corrupt teaching if the truth was known. God's knows and he will reward accordingly.
Titus
Active Member
You never gave a DIRECT answer.
@TibiasDad
Doug, this is very true, and I agree~but our new man is sinless created after the image of Jesus Christ. I do not have time to discuss this at the moment but will do so maybe tomorrow, I have a meeting to attend to shortly.
Oaky, let's say I did not, you still should be able to address those many scriptures I put before you, why wait on one point when I gave you several to consider and to answer. You are acting like a school yard little boy Titus, pitiful. Okay, start with Hebrews 4:12 that you just posted.
civic
Active Member
Jim asked a good question so I have a thumbs up. I would have given it a thumbs up no matter who he asked including myself. Here it is :
The above is what is known as a clarifying question. It was a good one imho.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Well you evidently have not been following the conversation. Because his question had been answered many times over.
Which means it was not a good question at all. Hew knew better than to ask it. He only asked. Because it is what he does. Keeps asking the same question over and over expecting to get a different answer.
I am sorry you have been misled. And agree with him badgering me the way he does.
civic
Active Member
I was not following the conversation I just liked the question is all. Sorry for the misunderstanding
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Let me ask you this
It is the work of God we believe.
When I say this, Jim and another person keeps trying to tell me I believe it is jesus who believes for me. That I remove free will from the equation (they are arguing from a calvinist or in this case an anti calvinist perspective)
Now. I have told them it is God who does the drawing
It is God who did the work to procure my salvation (the cross)
it is God who does the teaching. Through the word, Through our pastors and leaders. And to our family and friends he puts in our lives.
it is God who gives understanding,
In order that we, that is every man woman and child who ever lived
Have the ability to make a free will choice to continue in unbelief - yet have no excuse
Or to repent and actually recieve the gift God is offering us in faith.
Would you. Knowing these fact of what I and others like me believe, after being told this numerous times. Then turn around and ask a question like he asked me?
Or would you instead. Say I get it, God gets the credit for you believing, hence he did the work. You just freely chose to believe and recieve all the work he did. In in recieving, freely by grace the work of God is completed in you and you are saved.
That it is God who saved me, But unlike what the calvinist would believe. He did not force me to recieve in faith his gift. I can not boast in saving my self by recieving, because I did not do the work of saving myself. It is all of God. In a non calvinist way (free will is intact)
civic
Active Member
As simple as I can say it here it is in a nutshell. Salvation is synergistic.
God saves the person who believes.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Who’s work is it that the person believes
Does the person save themself. Or is it God who saved them
Jesus said it is the work of God we believe
Is it our work, or is it his work.
Who gets to boast in us being saved by faith?
Do we boast of saving ourself. Or does God boast in saving us?
civic
Active Member
Man’s responsibility to believe the gospel . That’s what saves. That passage gets misused and abused to make it say something never intended when isolated from the rest of the Bible. It gets twisted into a soteriological pretzel
Barnes says it best below
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.
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