Titus
Active Member
What happened to Johann?
Need a reason to believe Calvinists are who they claim to be?
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@atpollard, obedience to the gospel leading to salvation is not a meritorious work. There is no such thing as meritorious salvation. Believing in God is one act of obedience leading to salvation. It is a work. Jesus said it is a work. But it is not a meritorious act. It is not a work of law. The distinction between obedience to the gospel and works of law is an important distinction. Failure to do so leads to all manner of false doctrine.
@Titus
Titus, no problem pointing out what I have said, yet when you put me in a quote box then used at that moment exactly what you desire to expound on, and again, do not add to it what you are quoting from one of my posit. If that makes no sense to you, (which I find hard to believe) then you are to me proven yourself to a deceitful individual that has little or no honestly about him. Enough on this. Now, I want you to address all those many posits made to you from me.
I'm not ashamed of what I believe, since I'm convinced I can defend it from the word of God, if not, then I would not believe what I do. I take a similar view along with Spurgeon, even though I consider him a very mild Calvinist, but a Calvinist he was, by his own confession.
I personally prefer to be called what I am ~a believer in Jesus Christ, that unwavering holds to unconditionally election of grace based upon the redemption that Jesus Christ provided for God's elect. I hold that regeneration is not by any means other than the Spirit of God quickening God's elect by himself, without the will of the flesh and the will of another man willing others to be born again. This John Calvin did not preach, nor do most folks who call themselves a Calvinist. I do not hold to infant baptism, a heresy not taught in the scriptures, and a position that most folks who called themselves a Calvinist hold to. I do not hold to covenant theology as taught by many Calvinist. I am pure Particular Baptist that can trace our faith back very far, even though that within itself proves little, yet just for references, I'm more in line with those who formed the London Confession of faith by men like Samuel Richardson and a few others. They never went by the name Calvinist, since the true followers of John Calvin did not like our forefathers very much as history can prove the same. Now back to addressing others concerns.
Do not accuse me of making no sense, as though you did nothing to add to my post, when indeed you did. What you quoted above is indeed the exact words I said, but, as I pointed out, you then added:
You added in bold letters the parentheses (fruits of the Spirit)! Do not play games with me, or else, I will not have a dialogue with you, or any such person. I will not report folks, for many reasons, mainly I do not need someone protecting me against other men's "wily ways" .
Titus, no problem pointing out what I have said, yet when you put me in a quote box then used at that moment exactly what you desire to expound on, and again, do not add to it what you are quoting from one of my posit. If that makes no sense to you, (which I find hard to believe) then you are to me proven yourself to a deceitful individual that has little or no honestly about him. Enough on this. Now, I want you to address all those many posits made to you from me.
See https://www.romans45.org/spurgeon/calvinis.htm
I'm not ashamed of what I believe, since I'm convinced I can defend it from the word of God, if not, then I would not believe what I do. I take a similar view along with Spurgeon, even though I consider him a very mild Calvinist, but a Calvinist he was, by his own confession.
I personally prefer to be called what I am ~a believer in Jesus Christ, that unwavering holds to unconditionally election of grace based upon the redemption that Jesus Christ provided for God's elect. I hold that regeneration is not by any means other than the Spirit of God quickening God's elect by himself, without the will of the flesh and the will of another man willing others to be born again. This John Calvin did not preach, nor do most folks who call themselves a Calvinist. I do not hold to infant baptism, a heresy not taught in the scriptures, and a position that most folks who called themselves a Calvinist hold to. I do not hold to covenant theology as taught by many Calvinist. I am pure Particular Baptist that can trace our faith back very far, even though that within itself proves little, yet just for references, I'm more in line with those who formed the London Confession of faith by men like Samuel Richardson and a few others. They never went by the name Calvinist, since the true followers of John Calvin did not like our forefathers very much as history can prove the same. Now back to addressing others concerns.
You need to be careful with your wording here. John 3:16 says that "whoever believes in him [Jesus] should not perish but have eternal life". But that does not say that we are saved by believing. It says that those who believe are saved by God. God and only God saves. He saves those who believe.
I just finished reading your posit. You sound like a child playing on the playground with other children!
Please address my posts to you and then we can continue on, in the meanwhile, I have one coming for you sometimes later today, based upon these words from you:
Btw, Titus, there is "no such place" a literal burning hell fire at the moment where the wicked go at death ~ that's is one of the most preposterous doctrine taught by the modern church in our day! There will be a lake of fire were the wicked after the resurrection at the last day, and then the great white throne judgement, will be cast into, which is the second and final death of all of the wicked where they shall PERISH according to many scriptures including John 3:16, a favorite scripture of many Armenians ~ yet they have no clue as to its biblical meaning on a lot of doctrines.
Titus, do you know where the lake of fire will be? Show me your bible knowledge, if you can. The scriptures clearly tells us where it will be.
Later, with a post coming. RB
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It is a sad thing that anyone is called, by himself or another, anything but a Christian or a saint. That is the identification used in the Scriptures. Unfortunately, there are so many differences in the details of what Christians actually believe to be true doctrines, that a categorization or a classification according to those various differing doctrines is to be expected. It was a problem even in the first century when Paul addressed it in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17. So, unfortunate that it is, it is here to stay.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
See, this is how it happens.
You pick a doctrine. and you try to push me in that doctrine
The bible says in Adam ALL DIE
that's original sin, the moment Adam sinned. As head of the human race. I endure his condemnation.
Its Gods plan. Everyone is under Adam, so everyone has the ability to be under Christ. And those who fall under Christ are all saved..
It did not start with Calvin, It did not start centuries after.
But you cant see this. so you continue to falsely accuse me.
so I would suggest you STOP trying to force me under calvinist theology.. so you can actually understand what I have said and believe.
or remain blind to the fact of what myself and many like me believe. and continue to falsly accuse
so that was not you a few days ago who spend about 8 posts accusing me of following Calvinist theology?
Ok.
You want to be friends. Listen to ME. And stop trying to force me under some belief I do not follow
Better yet. Just ask what I believe. Don;t ask. how can you say your not calvinist if you believe this?
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Its a work of God.
How can you Quote Jesus own words. yet misquote him?
You did not come to faith on your own. nor did you understand on your own. It was God who helped draw you. Not to mention he did the work that you trust in to save you. If you hold to the one true gospel.
what is non instantaneous about this
when Abraham believed. was he not saved instantly?
No. Their faith did. and the fact they recieved the gift of life. made only through Jesus.. at that moment they were saved
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Oh I think everyone knows he is a calvinist.
Although watch him on a reformed chatroom.. He will argue against them. I think he argues against everyone. that's why I have him on ignore in every chatroom I share with him..
No it is not original sin. The only place where you read "in Adam all die" is in 1 Corinthians 15:22. There it is speaking about physical death and has nothing to do with sin, either Adam's sin or the sin of the one who dies.
The false doctrine of original sin is only a slightly less horrific false doctrine than is Total Depravity.
If you would, please explain for me what you think it means that it is a work of God.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I reported you because you kept falsely accusing me
You kept saying (falsely) That I believe God does the believing for me. Even though I multiple times shows you that it was not God doing the believing it was me
go ahead start at post # 24.
Here I will quote where your false accusation first was a question. so people can follow the conversation and see you failed to repent of you mischaracterization of what I believe.
which led to me reporting you. for falsly accusing me of saying God does the believing for us
Another lie SMH
lol.. Dude, I do not know what I did to you. But I have you so out there you can not even say anything correct.
@brightfrome holds to all 5 points.. I guess according to you. that would make him a calvinist also?
You tell us. You have been doing it alot lately
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Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Actually I did explain it already
So I will ask you the same question I asked @Titus
What work did you do to bring yourself to faith?
Paul never spoke about original sin. So, not I am not arguing against Paul; I am arguing against anyone who would charge God with the horrible injustice of imputing the sins of one to another. And that seems to be you and many others.
In fact, God devoted an entire chapter in Ezekiel denying even the concept of original sin (Ezek 18).
I studied first what my parents taught me, what others such as Sunday School teachers taught me, and early on from my reading the Bible. Although early in life most of my reading of the Bible was together with others, parents, teachers, etc. Given that I believed what I learned about God and within my capability to understand, I came to believe in God.
To the extent of the "work that God does", that was all contained in the delivery of His special revelation, His word the Bible, through His apostles and prophets by the power of the Holy Spirit. But it remains the individual who believes, who has faith. Romans 10 spells that out quite clearly.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
so who helped you to understand that. Was it you. or was it God
Jesus said it is the work of God
Lets for once let Jesus have the final say.
While I of my own free will chose to trust what God showed me, and recieve his gift.
It was Gods work who led me to that faith in all he did
he gets the glory, he gets to boast. Not me
again, Not of works. lest anyone should boast..
Faith is not a work.. (ours) it is the work of God. thats why we can not boast.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Did natural things come forth from the very "Word of God"?
Is the "Word of God".... spiritual?
You don't understand what you're reading. Calvinists have long lied about this verse. You rip this verse from its context and pretend it means what you want it to mean. I can read the verse myself. I can read the entire letter. Thusly, I know you're wrong.
Those at Corinth were carnal.
1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Natural. Carnal. Pay attention.
I'm not unlearned. I know much better than you do. The facts obvious from our interactions.
Now, lets get into the real meat of this topic.....
Where you enlightened part from the Word of God? Please answer plainly. You're quoting the "Word of God" as evidence here. I would assume your answer is no but I know Calvinists well. I know what your arguments are to deal with this. So go for it.
Tell me how you know God without what God has already spoken.
"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon
John Gill was a prominent 18th-century English Baptist theologian known for his strong Calvinistic views. While he is widely recognized as a staunch defender of the Five Points of Calvinism, some scholars debate whether he should be classified as a hyper-Calvinist. His writings, particularly The Cause of God and Truth, strongly defended Calvinistic doctrines against contemporary Arminian critics.
Samuel Richardson, the 17th-century English Baptist theologian, held a strong Calvinistic view on justification, emphasizing that salvation is solely by God's grace and achieved through Christ's sacrifice on the cross. He argued that justification is fully accomplished by God's decree to save the elect, and not dependent on human faith or works. Richardson's views aligned with earlier figures like Tobias Crisp and later with John Gill, who also stressed the monergistic nature of salvation.
Several of America's earliest universities were founded with strong Calvinist roots. These include Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, Northwestern, University of Pennsylvania, etc. While they have evolved over time, their origins are firmly rooted in the Calvinist theology tradition and aimed to train clergy and provide a strong theological foundation.
A very strong Calvinist influence did indeed shape and form and the founding of the United States, particularly the religion of many of the founding fathers. This influence is evident in their emphasis on limited government, the importance of individual liberty, and a realistic view of human nature, all concepts deeply rooted in Calvinist theology. I know personally having visited some of the old churches which are still in existence in South Carolina, and have seen and read some of their doctrinal teachings and why they came here many were Particular Baptist from England.
The "Old Particular Baptist" churches in Georgetown, SC, are historically known as the Antipedo Baptist Church, which was the first separate Baptist congregation in Georgetown. This church was founded in 1794 and later became First Baptist Church of Georgetown. The name "Antipedo" reflects their opposition to infant baptism.
The Northeast was a significant location for early Particular Baptist churches in America. John Clarke's church in Newport, Rhode Island, established between 1641 and 1648, was one of the earliest. Roger Williams' church in Providence, also in Rhode Island, was another pivotal early Baptist church. The First Baptist Church in America, founded by Williams in 1638, is considered the oldest Baptist church in the United States. These early churches, along with one in Swansea, Massachusetts, and another in Boston (1665), laid the foundation for Baptist growth in the region.
In Virginia, Particular Baptist churches emerged in the 1750s and 1760s, particularly in the northern and southernmost regions, influenced by the Philadelphia Baptist Association with ties to England. These churches, also known as Old School or Primitive Baptists, were Calvinist in their theology, believing that God had predetermined who would be saved. Some of these churches later became part of the Old Regular Baptist movement, which emphasized strict adherence to tradition and a more austere form of worship.
Old Particular Baptist churches in Pennsylvania, also known as Old School Baptists or Primitive Baptists, are a group of Baptist churches with roots in 18th and 19th century Pennsylvania. They are known for their adherence to Calvinistic theology, a specific understanding of Baptist doctrine, and often practice non-instrumental, lined-out hymnody. Some notable churches with connections to this tradition include Southampton Baptist Church and the First Particular Baptist Church of Jackson.
The first Particular Baptist churches in New York State were established in the mid-1700s, with some of the earliest congregations forming in Fishkill (1745 or earlier), Oyster Bay (about 1748), and North-Town (1751), according to a sketch of early Primitive Baptist history in New York. These churches emerged during a period of significant religious development in the region, as New Englanders migrated to New York and established various denominations.
In the 17th and 18th centuries, North Carolina saw the establishment of Particular Baptist churches, which adhered to Calvinistic doctrines emphasizing God's sovereignty and the concept of limited atonement. The Kehukee Association, formed in the mid-1700s, was a key organization for these churches, adopting the Philadelphia Confession and reflecting a strong Calvinistic theology.
I could keep going ~ but, without question it was one of the first churches in America that help make America great in the true sense of those words!
John Gill was a prominent 18th-century English Baptist theologian known for his strong Calvinistic views. While he is widely recognized as a staunch defender of the Five Points of Calvinism, some scholars debate whether he should be classified as a hyper-Calvinist. His writings, particularly The Cause of God and Truth, strongly defended Calvinistic doctrines against contemporary Arminian critics.
Samuel Richardson, the 17th-century English Baptist theologian, held a strong Calvinistic view on justification, emphasizing that salvation is solely by God's grace and achieved through Christ's sacrifice on the cross. He argued that justification is fully accomplished by God's decree to save the elect, and not dependent on human faith or works. Richardson's views aligned with earlier figures like Tobias Crisp and later with John Gill, who also stressed the monergistic nature of salvation.
Several of America's earliest universities were founded with strong Calvinist roots. These include Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, Northwestern, University of Pennsylvania, etc. While they have evolved over time, their origins are firmly rooted in the Calvinist theology tradition and aimed to train clergy and provide a strong theological foundation.
A very strong Calvinist influence did indeed shape and form and the founding of the United States, particularly the religion of many of the founding fathers. This influence is evident in their emphasis on limited government, the importance of individual liberty, and a realistic view of human nature, all concepts deeply rooted in Calvinist theology. I know personally having visited some of the old churches which are still in existence in South Carolina, and have seen and read some of their doctrinal teachings and why they came here many were Particular Baptist from England.
The "Old Particular Baptist" churches in Georgetown, SC, are historically known as the Antipedo Baptist Church, which was the first separate Baptist congregation in Georgetown. This church was founded in 1794 and later became First Baptist Church of Georgetown. The name "Antipedo" reflects their opposition to infant baptism.
The Northeast was a significant location for early Particular Baptist churches in America. John Clarke's church in Newport, Rhode Island, established between 1641 and 1648, was one of the earliest. Roger Williams' church in Providence, also in Rhode Island, was another pivotal early Baptist church. The First Baptist Church in America, founded by Williams in 1638, is considered the oldest Baptist church in the United States. These early churches, along with one in Swansea, Massachusetts, and another in Boston (1665), laid the foundation for Baptist growth in the region.
In Virginia, Particular Baptist churches emerged in the 1750s and 1760s, particularly in the northern and southernmost regions, influenced by the Philadelphia Baptist Association with ties to England. These churches, also known as Old School or Primitive Baptists, were Calvinist in their theology, believing that God had predetermined who would be saved. Some of these churches later became part of the Old Regular Baptist movement, which emphasized strict adherence to tradition and a more austere form of worship.
Old Particular Baptist churches in Pennsylvania, also known as Old School Baptists or Primitive Baptists, are a group of Baptist churches with roots in 18th and 19th century Pennsylvania. They are known for their adherence to Calvinistic theology, a specific understanding of Baptist doctrine, and often practice non-instrumental, lined-out hymnody. Some notable churches with connections to this tradition include Southampton Baptist Church and the First Particular Baptist Church of Jackson.
The first Particular Baptist churches in New York State were established in the mid-1700s, with some of the earliest congregations forming in Fishkill (1745 or earlier), Oyster Bay (about 1748), and North-Town (1751), according to a sketch of early Primitive Baptist history in New York. These churches emerged during a period of significant religious development in the region, as New Englanders migrated to New York and established various denominations.
In the 17th and 18th centuries, North Carolina saw the establishment of Particular Baptist churches, which adhered to Calvinistic doctrines emphasizing God's sovereignty and the concept of limited atonement. The Kehukee Association, formed in the mid-1700s, was a key organization for these churches, adopting the Philadelphia Confession and reflecting a strong Calvinistic theology.
I could keep going ~ but, without question it was one of the first churches in America that help make America great in the true sense of those words!
Psalms 33:12
“Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.”
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