Need a reason to believe Calvinists are who they claim to be?

[praise_yeshua]

Wrong, Philip was there. The Eunch confessed Christ before men, Acts 8:37,
- and Philip said(two men not one Philip and the Eunch) if thou believest with all thy heart thou mayest, and he(Eunch, two men together, now listen closely) I believe the Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Funny. There was only one man there to receive this "confession" you require. Phillip. You admit it above.

So you are mistaken. Philip and the Eunch and the Holy Spirit were prsent. Not what you teach,

You are denying the words of Jesus, Matthew 10:32-33.

I said I confessed to God. You list the Spirit above. Do you not know the Spirit is God?

Wrong, faith is a condition not in itself alone a confession. As proved by John 12:42,
belief is one condition. Confession is another condition. Two conditions not one.
- nevertheless even among the rulers many believed(condition) but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him( second condition) lest they should be put out of the synagogue....

You're dishonest because you're ignoring what I wrote.

Remember, Joseph of Arimathaea? You're still ignoring it. You're really all over the place in this. I can talk to God directly. I don't need you. In fact, the Eunch was wrong. He didn't need Phillip. The Eunch had Isiah. Isiah was preaching to the Eunch. All Phillip did was "catch the baby".

You keep accusing me of dishonesty.
Paul said confession is with the mouth.Romans 10:9-10
Jesus said confession is before men, Matthew 10: 32-33.
But you said your confession saved you when you confessed to God alone not men.

I explained what I said and you're selectively quoting/referencing what I said. Which is dishonest. I'll ask again. Does dishonesty disqualify you from being saved by your requirements?

I don't expect an answer. You'll ignore me again.

That is not the Biblical confession for salvation.
Paul didn't teach your doctrine on confession.
Jesus didn't teach your doctrine on confession.
You confession to be saved is foreign to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
This is why you cannot be saved by your private interpretation of the good confession..

I confessed Jesus Christ to YOU. Again. You are selectively quoting/referencing me. I fulfilled your requirement. Yet, you're still insisting I'm not saved. God knows. You'll face God one day. I will too. I'm more than willing to let God judge between us. We'll see what God says.

1 Timothy 6:12-13,
- fight the good fight of faith take hold of eternal life to whivh you were called and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses

Ah. Again. Arminianism is so silly. You're referencing how Timothy throughout his life had confessed Christ. Not exactly WHEN Timothy first confessed to God. You're conflating two events or more as being the same.

They're not. You know how I know? Because I can read English. I'll use your KJV....

2 Timothy 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.

Faith is generational. I know the Scriptures much better than you do. You stop searching for a defense. There isn't one. If you don't start answering everything I say in the manner in which I say them, you can talk to yourself.

Joseph of Arimathea hid his faith but he did not openly deny Chridt as Peter did.
Peter openly denied Christ.
Both had to repent of their sins or they would have been lost. 1John 1:8-9.
- if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

There is not one single word about repentance in Matthew 10:33. Not one. Why are you adding to what Jesus said based upon your own interpretation method?

Public denial of Jesus = damnation, Matthew 10-32-33.
Hiding ones faith = damnation,

Then why are you claiming that Peter repented and nullified Matthew 10:33? There is no context of repentance in Matthew 10:33. Again. You're all over the place.

Peter didn't deny Christ. Peter lied. Do you remember when Jesus said He prayed for Peter???

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Peter's faith didn't fail. You would have everyone believe that it did. However, that isn't true at all.

It is literally preposterous to believe what Arminians teach about salvation. One second your saved and the next you're lost again. Over and over throughout your lives.

So how many things have you been regenerated?

Mark 8:38,
- for whoever is ashamed of Me, and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angel's

Notice the timing there Titus.... You really shouldn't use such a good name for such nonsensical responses as this....

Again. I was saved at a specific point in time in my own life. I was 16 years old in a local church in the area I lived. I confessed Christ openly. However, my confession wasn't to men. It was to God. After all, it is God who heard me and saved me.

I'll be good when Christ comes with all His Holy angels.... Notice how you're references vastly different times? Maybe not. You're really lost in this systematic theology you got from others.

Again. Endless conflation from you. Over and over again you endless conflate the timing of events relative to the clear wording of these verses revelation.

Does that disqualify you too? I don't believe it does. You're confused and certainly not learned in Scriptures.

Irrelevant.
You said the confession that saved you was NOT before men.

Why is it irrelevant when you did it and not relevant when I did it? Do you not see what you're doing? You're trying to win an argument about beliefs that are worthless. That is all. You're trying so hard that you're really making some rather serious mistakes here. You have a very large double standard/hypocrisy here.

The only confession that saves in Jesus' gospel is with the mouth before men.
Matthew 10:32-33
Romans 10:9-10
Acts 8:37
1Timothy 6:12-13

Nonsense. What about when there isn't any man around? I've got good friends that got saved just reading the message of the Gospel and doing what it said to do.

Your really something. You are misleading and prevent others from entering the kingdom of God.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

What about death bed confession when a dying man calls out to God and confesses with no one else around?

This is really is preposterous. Get someone to help you. Do you have a pastor? Not even the Wesley brothers wouldn't say such things as this....

 

[praise_yeshua]

Tobias Crisp (1600-1643): Exalter Of Christ Alone

Tobias Crisp served the Lord during a time of civil war and ecclesiastical unrest. There were threats of a papal take-over in the Established Church and Amyraldianism, Arminianism, Grotianism and Socinianism were flooding into the country to water down the faith inherited from the Reformers and...

www.baptists.net

I know this better than you do. Did you know that Spurgeon changed significantly over the decades of his various sermons and writings?

It would be good if you would actually look at raw information instead of preaching men.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck…

Doug

"Calvinist" often are offended by what Calvin actually wrote. Once they become acquainted with what Calvin actually said, they will still hold to the various requirements of Calvinism as described by the Westminster Confession or the Synod of Dort.

After all, once a human being commits to publicly defending either position, they just can't change.

It would require them to admit they were wrong and such is not what human beings usually do.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What happened to Johann?

He is in South Africa. He might have limited access. They censor websites erratically there.

 

[Jim]

so who helped you to understand that. Was it you. or was it God

Jesus said it is the work of God

Lets for once let Jesus have the final say.

While I of my own free will chose to trust what God showed me, and recieve his gift.

It was Gods work who led me to that faith in all he did

he gets the glory, he gets to boast. Not me

again, Not of works. lest anyone should boast..

Faith is not a work.. (ours) it is the work of God. thats why we can not boast.

Define what, very specifically, what you mean by God's work. What was, again very specifically, Jesus' answer to the Jews question of "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"

 

[civic]

He is in South Africa. He might have limited access. They censor websites erratically there.

I believe he is one a few other forums which I’m no longer a member. Anyone on this forum on those other forums feel free to reach out to him.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Define what, very specifically, what you mean by God's work. What was, again very specifically, Jesus' answer to the Jews question of "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"

all I can do is SMH

I already explained this to you

Jesus had just said, do not work for food which perishes. but work which food which endures forever. which he will give them.

They then asked Jesus, What are these works.

Jesus answered. it is the work of God we believe.

It is not that difficult to understand it. why people find such a hard time is beyond me

 

[Red Baker]

@praise_yeshua

I know this better than you do. Did you know that Spurgeon changed significantly over the decades of his various sermons and writings?

One thing going for you is you do not lack pride ~ you seem think you know more than most, yet I have seen very little evidence that you do. I'll leave that alone, since it will go no where.

Though I do not follow very much of Spurgeon, since he knew how to use flowery speeches, yet was not too deep in teaching the scriptures, but did indeed seem to love the Lord. I do not believe he changed ever on the doctrine of God's electing grace, from what I have seen and read from him. But, I truly do not care, since he has no bearing on us a believer in this time in which we live.

 

[Jim]

all I can do is SMH

I already explained this to you

Jesus had just said, do not work for food which perishes. but work which food which endures forever. which he will give them.

They then asked Jesus, What are these works.

Jesus answered. it is the work of God we believe.

It is not that difficult to understand it. why people find such a hard time is beyond me

So is the believing a work which we do? If so are we saved by grace through that work that we do?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So is the believing a work which we do? If so are we saved by grace through that work that we do?

IT IS NOT A WORK

what part of this do you fail to understand

the biblical definition of work is something we do to earn a wage or a reward.

That's why Paul separates faith from works.

It is my faith in christ I freely chose to have.

But it was Gods work that brought me there.

Not of works lest anyone should boast.

why would you even fathom of boasting in your own work?

 

[praise_yeshua]

@praise_yeshua

One thing going for you is you do not lack pride ~ you seem think you know more than most, yet I have seen very little evidence that you do. I'll leave that alone, since it will go no where.

Though I do not follow very much of Spurgeon, since he knew how to use flowery speeches, yet was not too deep in teaching the scriptures, but did indeed seem to love the Lord. I do not believe he changed ever on the doctrine of God's electing grace, from what I have seen and read from him. But, I truly do not care, since he has no bearing on us a believer in this time in which we live.

Believe whatever you want. Spurgeon often contradicted himself. I know because I actually studied him. I just didn't blindly reference him. There is actually a thread somewhat on this from some time ago here. I'm not going to try to search for it but I participated and dealt with this very issue.

There are few that know more than I do about him. I had a friend once that would come close to reading everything he ever wrote.

Feel free to challenge my claims about my knowledge. I can prove myself to you. If I boast people say I'm prideful. If I keep quiet people ignore me.

Wisdom is justified of her children. I wait for another to speak of me. What He says then will matter.

 

[Titus]

You need to be careful with your wording here. John 3:16 says that "whoever believes in him [Jesus] should not perish but have eternal life". But that does not say that we are saved by believing. It says that those who believe are saved by God. God and only God saves. He saves those who believe.

Nothing we do saves us without God.
My faith in being saved is not in my faith alone. It's in Gods grace.
My faith in being saved is not in my repentance alone. It's in Gods grace and mercy.
My faith in being saved is not in my confession alone. It's in Gods grace and mercy.
My faith in being saved is not in my baptism alone. It's in Gods grace and mercy.

Gods grace instructs me that if I obey His gospel by my faith and obedience, He will save me.

So in another sense,
My faith saves me but not without Gods grace.
My repentance saves me but not without Gods grace.
My confession saves me, but not without Gods grace.
My submission to being baptized saves me, but not without Gods grace.

All these works are not my works(works of man). They are works of God(His gospel plan) that I must work. And by my faith and obedience(working Gods works) I'm saving myself not by my works but by Gods works like faith and obedience.
Gods grace instructs us on how we can save ourselves.
All these works are in Gods grace, His plan of saving man is Grace based.

Noah's work on the ark saved his family but not because he built a well made boat.
Noah's work was following Gods instruction. That instruction was Gods grace.

God instructed Noah on how to be saved. That's Grace.

Noah working Gods instruction saved him, not by his own works but by Gods instruction.
When Noah built the ark, he did the work by obeying God.
God had mercy on Noah and imparted Grace to Noah because his faith worked Gods commandments.
So in a sense Noah's faith saved him. He put his faith in action by obeying God, by working on the ark.
Do our work of obedience save us? Like belief? Yes. But not in and of themselves.
Noah's works was not his own. He was working Gods works. By following Gods instruction we receive unmerited favor and mercy.

We likewise are working Gods works.
None of our works merit Grace.
But without works( Gods instruction in his plan of salvation) God withholds unmerited favor and mercy.

Noah's works like faith, John 6:28-29, saved him by Gods grace. All the work he did on the ark was his obedient faith saving him and his family.

Hebrews 11:6-7,
- but without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him
- by faith Noah being warned of God of things not yet seen moved with godly fear prepared an ark to the saving of his house by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by  faith

Does the bible teach Noah saved himself and His family?
Yes,
By his faith with works(obeying God.)
Following Gods instruction one receives Gods unmerited favor. This is how God not man created the plan on how we will be saved.

It's a plan based on Grace not meritorious works.
God saves us when we obey Him.
Both God and man work together to receive His Grace.
This is why grace is conditional not unconditional.

Acts 2:40,
- and with many other words did he testify and exhort saying save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Titus 2:11-12,
- for the  grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men
- teaching us(Gods instruction)that denying ungodlyness and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nothing we do saves us without God.
My faith in being saved is not in my faith alone. It's in Gods grace.
My faith in being saved is not in my repentance alone. It's in Gods grace and mercy.
My faith in being saved is not in my confession alone. It's in Gods grace and mercy.
My faith in being saved is not in my baptism alone. It's in Gods grace and mercy.

You don't realize that absolutely everything you just mentioned is nothing without faith.

Without faith it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to please God.

You can repent. You can confess. You can get baptized all without out faith.

It means nothing without faith. Then you should also realize that faith is meaningless without love.

Everything you're referencing is a life long battle for your affections. What do you REALLY.... love.

Love God with all your heart soul and mind. Everything within you must love or even faith is meaningless.

 

[Titus]

Here I will quote where your false accusation first was a question. so people can follow the conversation and see you failed to repent of you mischaracterization of what I believe.

its impossible for me to know what you believe since you dont know yourself.
I never made any accusations. I only went by what you told me. You are not consistent with what you told me, so I give up trying go understand what position you take.

 

[Titus]

You don't realize that absolutely everything you just mentioned is nothing without faith.

Without faith it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to please God.

You can repent. You can confess. You can get baptized all without out faith.

It means nothing without faith. Then you should also realize that faith is meaningless without love.

Everything you're referencing is a life long battle for your affections. What do you REALLY.... love.

Love God with all your heart soul and mind. Everything within you must love or even faith is meaningless.

Nothing in my post even remotely hints at doing works without faith can save.
Did you not read in my post? What I posted on faith? Apparently not.
I'll repost.

but without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him

 

[civic]

IT IS NOT A WORK

what part of this do you fail to understand

the biblical definition of work is something we do to earn a wage or a reward.

That's why Paul separates faith from works.

It is my faith in christ I freely chose to have.

But it was Gods work that brought me there.

Not of works lest anyone should boast.

why would you even fathom of boasting in your own work?

Gods work as preceding grace and drawing / conviction of sin correct ?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

its impossible for me to know what you believe since you dont know yourself.
I never made any accusations. I only went by what you told me. You are not consistent with what you told me, so I give up trying go understand what position you take.

lol

dude, your pride is way to deep.

I know exactly what I believe and even explained it to you in great detail.

its obvious you have no humility and I have hit a nerve. So I will move on, I think you have been exposed quite well.. I reserve the right to come back again in the future. when you again start falsly accusing people

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Gods work as preceding grace and drawing / conviction of sin correct ?

not sure it is called preceding grace, never heard of this term.

I think God draws everyone in one way or the other. otherwise we can not be held accountable for our unbelief.

I believe if God knows a person will believe. he will do all he can to make sure he has that opportunity.

if he knows no matter what. person will not believe. He will give them enough to hold them accountable. because they knew. they just did not believe (romans 1)

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nothing in my post even remotely hints at doing works without faith can save.
Did you not read in my post? What I posted on faith? Apparently not.
I'll repost.

I've read your comments and I knew them before you ever wrote anything because I know where they came from. You're no different than most any Arminanist. You make faith void. The only way any person can confirm faith is through the purity of love. You have made faith dependent upon works when it is dependent upon love. You do good things and you do bad things. Those are your works. What you can't do is love God as required and love another.

Why do you still sin and pretend "repentance" makes it all go away?

 

[praise_yeshua]

not sure it is called preceding grace, never heard of this term.

I think God draws everyone in one way or the other. otherwise we can not be held accountable for our unbelief.

I believe if God knows a person will believe. he will do all he can to make sure he has that opportunity.

if he knows no matter what. person will not believe. He will give them enough to hold them accountable. because they knew. they just did not believe (romans 1)

You should know these terms if you're experienced.