Need a reason to believe Calvinists are who they claim to be?

[Jim]

Good god man, can you read. I highlighted your post. and bolded the words YOU WROTE. where you said we are baptized TO GET SAVED and TO BE JUSTIFIED

What you highlight doesn't say what you said it says.

Again, if being baptized is required. it is a work of merit

It is a condition, not a work of merit. The only work that would merit eternal life would be a life of perfectly obeying God's law.

God brought me to my knees, where I heard. confessed and trusted him. (did not continue in unbelief)

Apparently not. You seem not to have trusted what He said about baptism.

Baptism happens AFTER we get saved

Matthew 29:19-20 says otherwise. It says that baptizing and teaching is how disciples are made.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's not a hurdle.

I disagree. You can't even have a debate when someone doesn't care about having one.

 

[Jim]

Again, Jesus said it is THE WORK OF GOD THAT I BELIEVE.

Is that work of believing leading to salvation?

 

[Jim]

I disagree.

OK

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

What you highlight doesn't say what you said it says.

It is a condition, not a work of merit. The only work that would merit eternal life would be a life of perfectly obeying God's law.

Apparently not. You seem not to have trusted what He said about baptism.

Matthew 29:19-20 says otherwise. It says that baptizing and teaching is how disciples are made.

If it is a condition.

it is a work of merit

I do this work to earn salvation, to get salvation, IE salvation is a reward, not a gift.

you just proved me right.. Thank you

You have water baptism up there with physical circumcision's and other works of the law.

paul called it another gospel.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Is that work of believing leading to salvation?

no, it is not a work

How many times do you have to be told.

I can not BOAST in saving myself because I become poor in spirit. repented. and trusted in God with a faith that said yes lord. Please save me

But sadly.. I guess you want to bvoast of your faith in God.

no wonder calvinists are so afraid of faith. if this is what people are boasting in.. that they trusted Jesus.

I am starting to get it..

For it is BY GRACE I have been saved (By Gods mercy, by Gods work, it is a gift of mercy, because we can not earn it

THROUGH FAITH - God will not force his salvation on us. He wants us to freely chose to trust him and take it.. Like those in Moses day, who trusted God and looked at the bronse serpent.

NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST.

FAITH IS NOT A WORK. YOU CAN NOT BOAST IN IT..

water baptism IS A WORK. I CAN BOAST IN SAVING MYSELF BECAUSE I WENT AND GOT BAPTIZED

 

[Red Baker]

@praise_yeshua

I'm the only one actually rejecting their choices in this argument. You're blindly accept them

I'm on vacation and very limited as to what I can post at the moment. This subject I can, and will when I return and on another thread keep from hijacking this one.

We shall see who is blindly following anyone.

 

[Red Baker]

@praise_yeshua

I would not dare do that. I actually believe in the individual right of every believer to serve God independently of any other man's requirements.

You finally said something that a mature believer would say, and should contend for! Amen to these words.

 

[praise_yeshua]

@praise_yeshua

I'm on vacation and very limited as to what I can post at the moment. This subject I can, and will when I return and on another thread keep from hijacking this one.

We shall see who is blindly following anyone.

It is relative to a degree to the primary issue in the OP. I don't mind taking this somewhere else. It will just probably "die" if it does. We'll see. Either way, I understand. I'm not your enemy. You're not mine. I don't feel I really have an enemy here apart from some of the Unitarians.

This battle that exists between Calvinism and Arminianism drives engagements.

 

[Red Baker]

I had my first formal class in that subject just about 70 years ago.

That's one reason I look up to you for the practical wisdom God has given to you, I know personally having known you for over 15 years or so. You are one of my favorite people of these forums even though we disagree on things, I still love you for your godliness and wisdom that you possess.

 

[Jim]

no, it is not a workJ

Jesus called it a work.

 

[Jim]

That's one reason I look up to you for the practical wisdom God has given to you, I know personally having known you for over 15 years or so. You are one of my favorite people of these forums even though we disagree on things, I still love you for your godliness and wisdom that you possess.

And that right back to you Red.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In the context of faith.... Remember the words of Paul to those at Corinth....

1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

I was meditating on our Lord the other day and was reminded of these words.

They should put this conversation into the proper perspective.

Faith can exist without love. Faith without love creates an individual that is "nothing".......

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Jesus called it a work.

His work

Not your work

He takes credit and boasts in saving you. Not you boasing in Savin yourself

 

[Jim]

His work

Not your work

He takes credit and boasts in saving you. Not you boasing in Savin your

God works to believe?

 

[Selah]

The way I understand it, whoever believes in Jesus Christ is saved and considered an elect person.

Romans 8:28-33 (NKJV) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to [His] purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things? If God [is] for us, who [can be] against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? [It is] God who justifies.

s e l a h

 

[Jim]

His work

Not your work

He takes credit and boasts in saving you. Not you boasing in Savin yourself

Why do you keep talking about anyone saving themselves? I have never heard anyone even mentioning that except you and maybe some others as confused as you.

 

[Titus]

1. Can you rightfully recognize that you just judged me to be outside the body of believers and the family of God even though I openly confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and my Savior?

I'm not a belief only salvationist.
Plenty of believers are shown in the Bible to be lost.

John 12:42,
- Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Jesus but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him lest they should be put out of the synagogue

Belief in Jesus is good. But belief alone cannot save.
Belief in Jesus and His word is a must to obtain salvation.

John 7:24,
- do not judge according to appearance but judge righteous judgement

 

[Titus]

If it is a condition.

it is a work of merit

I do this work to earn salvation, to get salvation, IE salvation is a reward, not a gift.

you just proved me right.. Thank you

You have water baptism up there with physical circumcision's and other works of the law.

paul called it another gospel.

So there is a difference between works one does to earn salvation versus obedience to God's will. This is a distinction many refuse to make and seem to want to make obedience to God's will a work of merit

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm not a belief only salvationist.
Plenty of believers are shown in the Bible to be lost.

First, why have you left off what I referenced from the apostle John? You're only selectively responding to what I say. I've responded to everything you've said.

In response. Plenty of "workers" in the Bible are shown to be lost.

John 12:42,
- Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Jesus but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him lest they should be put out of the synagogue.

Funny how you reference this verse while ignoring my confession. Didn't I confess Christ? What gives?

Belief in Jesus is good. But belief alone cannot save.
Belief in Jesus and His word is a must to obtain salvation.

John 7:24,
- do not judge according to appearance but judge righteous judgement

It matters what you believe IN. Belief and confession saves. I have done both. Devils can't believe in the work of Christ for them. Christ didn't Atone for them.

You actually believe the Scriptures save you. Can I remind you of what Jesus said about such things?

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

You actually think that what is written saves you. What you don't understand is that we must literally go to Jesus to be saved. After all, Jesus is alive forever more. He holds the keys to death and hell. He alone approves or disapproves of individuals. He is the Judge. Not anyone else.

It is Jesus that saves. It is Jesus that saves even today. Jesus personally accepted me. It really doesn't matter if you accept me or not. I wish you would but I understand why you resist such. You've been taught to be what you are being. Your beliefs are sincere and meaningful to you but they are wrong. They don't stand up to the simplest of scrutinies.

Jesus silenced the Pharisees, Scribes and Sadducees of his day. That is what Truth does. It stops mouths. It silences criticism.

Lets keep going. Lets see where this goes.