Aeliana
Well-known member
Baptism doesn't remove your sins. Nothing but the blood of Jesus can do that.
Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
- Thread starter Red Baker
- Start date
Aeliana
Well-known member
Too late for that
Aeliana
Well-known member
They were fulfilling prophecy. It's not a game. One centurion said that “truly this was the Son of God!” Matthew 27:54
Baptism doesn't wash away your sins. Try faith in Jesus, that's what works. Nothing but the blood.
Aeliana
Well-known member
Now I get it... you're relying on fire insurance to keep you out of hell. And baptism was the price YOU Paid for your insurance policy. No use to send me more I see where you're coming from now.
Truther
Well-known member
The name of Jesus during baptism removes your sins. That is how you apply the blood to your life. You can’t use mind over matter to get the blood applied in your life.
Truther
Well-known member
You mean like “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”
Truther
Well-known member
I guess you’re not into insurance. Kind of scary. The promise of salvation is insurance. You had to do something to obtain it. Or did you just believe you have it? It’s all in your brain?
Everyone that was baptized in the name of Jesus in Acts bought the insurance. I guess you have a new carrier huh?
Aeliana
Well-known member
Try to lay your fire insurance on me, You're the one that brought that up. These are Christians who don't necessary love God or Jesus and might not even see him as a fatherly but are strictly christian to avoid going to hell. Their whole faith is centered around the belief that if hell is real they don't want to go there. So therefor their actions might not be out of morality or love but simply fear. Have you heard about these type of christians? Usually these types of christians believe they must perform some type of works salvation such as baptism.
I obtained Salvation by believing in Jesus as the Bible teachers.
“That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” Romans 10:9-10
Aeliana
Well-known member
What would Lead you to believe that I meant that? Apparently you haven't been paying attention. I certainly hope you've been paying for your fire insurance policy.
Aeliana
Well-known member
So you think you can evangelize someone by putting them in a tub of water and while they're in the water get them to accept Jesus? Talk about backwards. You win the prize.
Bubba
Member
What does baptism symbolize? Baptism is one of the most important practices in the church, something that Jesus calls his followers to do after salvation. It reminds us of Jesus’ death and resurrection and the new life we have in him! But Baptism is not the cause of that ne life.
Being put right with God by union with Christ in the divine miracle of conversion and new birth — is by faith and faith alone on our part not Baptism.
God uses faith as the sole instrument of union with Christ, and thus counts us righteous in the instant that we have faith in Jesus.
We know that the thief on the cross was told by Jesus that that very day he would be with him in paradise. He was not baptized. I know he’s a special case. I don’t think you build a theology of baptism on the thief on the cross. But one thing it says is baptism is not an absolute necessity, because it wasn’t in his case.
In him [in Christ] also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. Colossians 2:11–1
We are buried with him and raised with him in baptism through faith. The burial with Christ in the water and the rising with Christ out of the water, it seems to me from that text, are not what unites us to Christ — that is, the going under the water, the coming up out of the water. That’s not what unites you to Christ. It is through faith that we are decisively united to Christ.
Horatius
Member
We do it because Christ commanded it, but also because it conveys the sign of the promise of God of salvation by faith and all of the benefits that flow from that.
When we come to faith, and later worry about the loss of his salvation, we can recall our baptism—not because the baptism guarantees us salvation, but because it reminds us of the unfailing promise of God to preserve all those who are engrafted into Christ.”
When we come to faith, and later worry about the loss of his salvation, we can recall our baptism—not because the baptism guarantees us salvation, but because it reminds us of the unfailing promise of God to preserve all those who are engrafted into Christ.”
Truther
Well-known member
Your busted, you went to the epistles to try to claim their verse. That verse in Romans is to folks that already obey Peter and the apostles and we’re baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That was an affirmation of their faith. This proves you read the gospels, skipped the book of Acts and went straight to the epistles . This is known as scriptural mail theft. That is a letter written to someone else not sinners.
It is obvious that you’re unaware of the order the New Testament as it was put together. Let me help you.
The first four books are called the gospels. They are for sinners to believe in Jesus.
The next book is the book of Acts. It is the instructions for what we must do to be saved.
The following books are called the epistles. They were written to those that were already saved.
You need to read and apply these books in this specific order to avoid being called an Acts skipper.
Truther
Well-known member
My fire insurance policy was paid in full on October 7, 1979. I believed and was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sins. Thus, I was saved. And to help me get to the finish line, I was filled with the Holy Ghost. All is well.
Truther
Well-known member
No, they must believe to qualify to be baptized in the name of Jesus. That was standard practice in the book of Acts.
Nobody in the Bible accepted Jesus as their personal savior. Modernists made that up.
koberstein
Active member
THE JEWISH ROOTS OF BAPTISM
WHERE DID BAPTISM COME FROM?
A Jewish man called Yochanan was baptising people in the Jordan River in first century Israel, including his cousin who would later become world famous: Yeshua of Nazareth. Many Jewish people responded to the call of this Jewish man to immerse themselves in the river as a sign of repentance, and a desire to get right with God. Some of the Pharisees were also among them. Did Yochanan invent baptism at this time? Or was it part of Jewish tradition and practice before that?No he didn't, and yes it was.
And the Hebrew word for an immersion pool built for this purpose, “mikveh”, also points us in the right direction in understanding deeper meaning in the practice.
IMMERSION IN JEWISH TRADITION
The Jewish laws which had been passed down orally from generation to generation had several things to say about the need for ritual washing, and the most desirable places to do it. There are six different options suggested that satisfy the requirements, starting with pits or cisterns of standing water as acceptable but least desirable, moving up to pits that are refreshed by rainwater as slightly more desirable, then the custom-built ritual bath, or “mikveh” with 40 se’ahs (300 liters) or more of water, then fountains, then flowing waters.But “living waters” (as found in natural lakes and rivers) which were considered to be the best possible situation.
The Essenes, a strict Jewish sect, were doing it too out in the Judean Desert. But why were Jewish people immersing themselves in water? Is baptism in the Jewish Scriptures? Well, sort of, yes.
RITUAL BATHING IN THE BIBLE
“Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: You shall also make a laver of bronze, with its base also of bronze, for washing. You shall put it between the tabernacle of meeting and the altar. And you shall put water in it, for Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet in water from it. When they go into the tabernacle of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister, to burn an offering made by fire to the LORD, they shall wash with water, lest they die. So they shall wash their hands and their feet, lest they die. And it shall be a statute forever to them– to him and his descendants throughout their generations.” Exod 30:17-21The priests had to be ritually clean (tahor) in order to serve at the tabernacle, and Israelites who had become ritually unclean (tamay) had to restore their situation with the passing of time and bathing their whole body in fresh, ritually clean (tahor) water, according to Leviticus 15.
Later, when the temple had been built, it was necessary for everyone to be immersed in a mikveh to become ritually clean before entering the temple. There are many ancient mikva’ot (plural of mikveh) to be seen in Jerusalem, and it is clear to see the two sets of steps for each one – a set of steps going down to the mikveh in an impure (tamay) state on one side, and on the other side, steps where the pilgrim will emerge fresh and ritually clean (tahor).
WHAT DID JEWISH BAPTISM LOOK LIKE IN THE TIME OF JESUS?
Following the upheaval of the 1967 war, archaeologists were presented with the opportunity to excavate parts of the upper city of Jerusalem, giving a new window into daily life in ancient times. Many of the houses were grand and spacious, with their own water cisterns and ritual baths in the basements. Some houses were found to have had several of these mikva’ot, since it is thought that as well as providing for the household (which could even be up to fifty people) they would have been able to welcome and host pilgrims arriving for the Jewish feasts, catering for many more. Many of this upper city aristocracy were among the priestly class, who would have to stay in a state of ritual purity as much as possible, and so would have to immerse themselves in a mikveh frequently. Archaeologists also believe that the pools of Siloam and Bethsaida could have been used for ritual bathing in the Second Temple period for those visiting Jerusalem for the high holy days.So immersion in a mikveh was quite common at the time of Yeshua, but the New Testament also describes baptisms taking place not only in rivers, but in any available body of water. In Acts 8, we read of a visiting pilgrim from Ethiopia, who came to believe in Yeshua as he read Isaiah on the way home:
“As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” (verse 36).
By this point baptism had come to signify a decision to accept Yeshua as Messiah and Lord.
THE WORD “MIKVEH”
The Hebrew noun for a ritual bath (mikveh) can help us understand a bit more about the Jewish notion of immersion. Often the Hebrew language reveals keys in the Hebrew thought behind the words. The word mikveh shares the same root as the word for hope (tikvah), for line (kav) and alignment, and the concept of hoping or waiting on God (kiviti l’Adonai).Here is what Strong’s Lexicon has to say about the word:
מִקְוֶה miqveh, mik-veh';
something waited for, i.e. confidence (objective or subjective);
also a collection, i.e. (of water) a pond, or (of men and horses) a caravan or drove:—
abiding, gathering together, hope, linen yarn, plenty (of water), pool.
and the same root word:
קָוָה qâvâh, kaw-vaw';
to bind together (perhaps by twisting), i.e. collect; (figuratively) to expect:—gather (together), look, patiently, tarry, wait (for, on, upon).
The ideas of binding together, or twisting together, of yarn, gives us a good mental picture of what it means to align ourselves with God, and wait for him. We gather ourselves and bind ourselves to his word and to him, we line ourselves up with him, and wait for him in confidence and hope. When you read that the Psalmist says he waits upon the Lord, this is usually the word he is using.
The linked concepts of mikvah (collected pool of water) and tikvah (hope, confidence) are played out beautifully in Jeremiah 17:5-6, where the prophet poetically expresses the ideas through the metaphor of trees either rooted and flourishing beside water when we trust in God, or drying up for the lack of water when we put our trust in man. A few verses later, Jeremiah summarises:
Lord, you are the hope (mikveh) of Israel; all who forsake you will be ashamed (or dried out).
Those who turn away from you will be written in the dust because they have forsaken the Lord, the spring of living water.
This is a word play – the text actually says “The Lord is the MIKVEH of Israel, and all who forsake him will be ashamed or dried out!” So it makes more sense now that Jeremiah continues, to say that when we turn away from this mikveh of water and hope, we will be ashamed, which can also be translated “dried out”. Through this word play, Jeremiah deliberately points us back to the analogy of the man who trusts in God being like a tree beside plenty of water, and the one who leaves God ending up in dry, dusty shame.
A “Mikveh” of living water represents the bounty and resources of the new life that we can enjoy in God. Those who put their hope in God, choosing to align their lives with him, will never be dried out, but will always have fresh life in him.
Next time you see someone being immersed in water to signify their new life in Yeshua, the hope of Israel, the mikveh of Israel, call to mind all that he said about being the water of life, the well of living water that springs up to eternal life… because that's exactly who He is!
[1] Tractate Mivaoth, Babylonian Talmud, Mishnah 1-8
There are six degrees of gatherings of water, each superior to the other.
The water of pits… The same rules apply to the water of pits, the water of cisterns, the water of ditches, the water of caverns, the water of rain drippings which have stopped, and mikwehs of less than forty se'ahs: they are all clean during the time of rain; when the rain has stopped those near to a city or to a road are unclean, and those distant remain clean until the majority of people pass [that way].
Superior to such [water] is the water of rain drippings which have not stopped.
Superior to such [water] is [the water of] the mikveh containing forty se'ahs, for in it persons may immerse themselves and immerse others.
Superior again is [the water of] a fountain whose own water is little but has been increased by a greater quantity of drawn water; it is equivalent to the mikveh inasmuch as it may render clean by standing water, and to an [ordinary] fountain in as much as one may immerse in it whatever the quantity of its contents.
Superior again are ‘smitten waters’ which can render clean even when flowing.
Superior again are ‘living waters’ which serve for the immersion of persons who have a running issue and for the sprinkling of lepers, and are valid for the preparation of the water of purification.
Shalom
Johann
Well-known member
The Jewish Roots of Baptism
Where did Baptism come from? The Hebrew word “mikveh”, points us to a deeper understanding of the jewish baptism - before John the Baptist.
www.oneforisrael.org
koberstein
Active member
Let Us Cross Over!
Matthew 3:6 and Mark 1:15 describe John the Baptist baptizing the people from Jerusalem, Judea and the surrounding area.This submersion in water was a physical marker of the people’s confession and repentance. They did not leave the river the same way they entered it.
Jesus also allowed himself to be baptized in the Jordan river, not because he needed to be, but because it was the way “to fulfill all righteousness” in signifying His release into His teaching and healing ministry.
As the presence of God came through the Jordan River in Joshua 4:18, in the form of the ark of the covenant into a new life in the promised land, Jesus God incarnate also passed through the Jordan River into a new stage in his life.
The Jordan river represents an opportunity we all have before us. With confessing our sins to God and one another, and in physical baptism, we can be renewed and refreshed. We can have that breakthrough and moment of clarity that we may have been seeking in our lives.
Jesus gives hope of salvation and healing in Him, as prophet Isaiah said:
“But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
Always Faithful
Remember that even in the wilderness God has always been faithful to us. During the 40-year long trek in the desert, Israel was never without provision and their sandals never broke.“You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” (Exodus 19:4)
Shalom
Truther
Well-known member
Are you trying to debunk Acts 2:38?Let Us Cross Over!
Matthew 3:6 and Mark 1:15 describe John the Baptist baptizing the people from Jerusalem, Judea and the surrounding area.
This submersion in water was a physical marker of the people’s confession and repentance. They did not leave the river the same way they entered it.
Jesus also allowed himself to be baptized in the Jordan river, not because he needed to be, but because it was the way “to fulfill all righteousness” in signifying His release into His teaching and healing ministry.
As the presence of God came through the Jordan River in Joshua 4:18, in the form of the ark of the covenant into a new life in the promised land, Jesus God incarnate also passed through the Jordan River into a new stage in his life.
The Jordan river represents an opportunity we all have before us. With confessing our sins to God and one another, and in physical baptism, we can be renewed and refreshed. We can have that breakthrough and moment of clarity that we may have been seeking in our lives.
Jesus gives hope of salvation and healing in Him, as prophet Isaiah said:
“But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
Always Faithful
Remember that even in the wilderness God has always been faithful to us. During the 40-year long trek in the desert, Israel was never without provision and their sandals never broke.
“You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” (Exodus 19:4)
Shalom
Truther
Well-known member
Easy on the extra biblical commentary, huh? People make up all kinds of stuff.Let Us Cross Over!
Matthew 3:6 and Mark 1:15 describe John the Baptist baptizing the people from Jerusalem, Judea and the surrounding area.
This submersion in water was a physical marker of the people’s confession and repentance. They did not leave the river the same way they entered it.
Jesus also allowed himself to be baptized in the Jordan river, not because he needed to be, but because it was the way “to fulfill all righteousness” in signifying His release into His teaching and healing ministry.
As the presence of God came through the Jordan River in Joshua 4:18, in the form of the ark of the covenant into a new life in the promised land, Jesus God incarnate also passed through the Jordan River into a new stage in his life.
The Jordan river represents an opportunity we all have before us. With confessing our sins to God and one another, and in physical baptism, we can be renewed and refreshed. We can have that breakthrough and moment of clarity that we may have been seeking in our lives.
Jesus gives hope of salvation and healing in Him, as prophet Isaiah said:
“But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
Always Faithful
Remember that even in the wilderness God has always been faithful to us. During the 40-year long trek in the desert, Israel was never without provision and their sandals never broke.
“You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings, and brought you to Myself.” (Exodus 19:4)
Shalom
