Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[Red Baker]

Mark 16:16

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Introduction:

A couple of points before we begin. It is our duty to read the scriptures and give their sense, without which, it is impossible to leave them, with the correct interpretation that the Spirit of God intended for them to have. Truth is hidden within the scriptures from the wise, specially, those ones who believe that they are and glory in their wisdom. Truth is hidden in seemly simply and plain words, and those people who just superficially read the scriptures (which many do) leave with believing that they have the mind of God on certain truths, and the truth is~they would not know the truth if it hit them right between the eyes.

I have quoted this verse many times, yet I know that its importance cannot be over emphasized, because this is the main tool that must be used to come to the truth on any subject, regardless how simple, and clear cut the scriptures seem to be, unless we do as Nehemiah and Ezra, and Paul, we will never be able to come to the knowledge of truth, on a given subject, be whatever it be.

Nehemiah 8:8

"So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading."

This verse is very close to what Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15. So, we cannot minimize how important this godly deed is for us to arrive at the Holy Ghost's true interpretation.

Another point we need to make is that no one can privately interpret the scriptures. The Bible is not subject to private interpretations. It is it's own interpreter. How could man even think that he of himself can figure out or define what God's Word really means? Man can't even understand the common cold, and can He understand the mind of God? It is only by being led by 'the Spirit of God' in the careful reading and receiving what He Himself has inspired written, do we in spirit have the mind of Christ to understand. Then is it made manifest to us that the Bible is it's own dictionary, it's own interpreter, and it's own witness. It defines itself, it interprets itself, and by the Holy Spirit it witnesses to it's own validity and truthfulness. In plain language, only the Bible can define what it means. And it does that by the Spirit working within us as we search through it. Seeking the truth is in 'receiving' all of what scripture says and ignoring none. It is in comparing scripture with scripture and finding what is in agreement, and reconciling all that appears in opposition. For the most basic of sound Biblical hermeneutics is that, 'no scripture contradicts itself, nor can it be privately interpreted.' The scriptures can only be our 'authority' if we allow it to define itself and interpret itself. If we attempt to define or interpret it ourselves, we will inevitably come to erroneous conclusions, for we are not qualified.

There is more in the Bible than can be learned in one lifetime, but it is not as complicated or as hard to discern as some would have you believe. God didn't inspire the Bible written for scholars, He wrote it for all of us babes. When we look at Mark 16:16, let the Bible be the 'authority' in interpretation, and let us allow the holy scriptures tell us what God is truly teaching, and how we are to understand the Spirit's testimony. And may the Lord who is Gracious above all guide us all into His marvelous truths.

To be continue..

 

[Red Baker]

Mark 16:16 has been a battleground for many over the years since the apostles. Not many do justice to these scriptures, at least from my standpoint and understanding of the scriptures.

Baptist~ When one said that he is of the Baptist faith, that within itself does not say very much. There are multitudes of different types Baptist. But one common thread that holds them all together into one is that none of them (at least I know not any) believes in baptismal regeneration. There very well could be some, but would be very rare. Yet most of them, have a serious problem explaining Mark 16:16, and do not even try to do so. They just stay away from it, or some try to convince people that the baptism that is mentioned in the verse has to do with spiritual baptism into the body of Christ at regeneration. I see no justice in this interpretation whatsoever. The context does not lend or even allows one to consider the possibility of this interpretation. That interpretation destroys the rules of biblical hermeneutics. Every student of the scriptures, must be a slave to the contents of the context at hand, and follow the flow of the prophets words. That interpretation is a desperate effort to avoid the use of the words: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." Not many Baptist will ever do this verse justice, but some do, and I know a few of them personally.

Those who believe in baptismal regeneration~ There are many of different faith that believe that water baptism is the means whereby one is accepted by God and his sins are forgiven him. These people have many problems to deal with who believe in water baptism as the means of salvation from sin and condemnation, more than they are willing to accept. Those people who cling to such scriptures, simply because they see these words: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." At least the contents does lend itself to that understanding, if that is all they are looking for, then it is there for the taking~without question.

But we said in our introduction these words: "A couple of points before we begin. It is our duty to read the scriptures and give their sense, without which, it is impossible to leave them, with the correct interpretation that the Spirit of God intended for them to have. Truth is hidden within the scriptures from the wise, specially, those ones who believe that they are and glory in their wisdom. Truth is hidden in seemly simply and plain words, from those people who just superficially read the scriptures".

Again, we said: "It is only by being led by "the Spirit of God' in the careful reading and receiving what He Himself has inspired written, do we in spirit have the mind of Christ to understand. Then is it made manifest to us that the Bible is it's own dictionary, it's own interpreter, and it's own witness. It defines itself, it interprets itself, and by the Holy Spirit it witnesses to it's own validity and truthfulness. In plain language, only the Bible can define what it means. And it does that by the Spirit working within us as we search through it. Seeking the truth is in "receiving" all of what scripture says and ignoring none. It is in comparing scripture with scripture and finding what is in agreement, and reconciling all that appears in opposition. For the most basic of sound Biblical hermeneutics is that, "no scripture contradicts itself, nor can it be privately interpreted." The scriptures can only be our 'authority' if we allow it to define itself and interpret itself. If we attempt to define or interpret it ourselves, we will inevitably come to erroneous conclusions, for we are not qualified.

Mark 16:16

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

What is the true interpretation of this verse? Our Lord spoke these words, as well as the ones that follow, specially verses 17,18~which requires us to use the scriptures overall to know exactly what he meant by these words. No single scripture are contain in a vacuum, but must be interpreted in the light of the scriptures overall teachings. This is a point that we all should agree on. If you take verses 16,17 of Mark 16, and keep them in a vacuum, and isolate them from others scriptures, then we all would be snake handler and drinking poison just to prove that we are of God. I will pass on both of those two things to prove my faith, thank you.

We must allow all scriptures to flow in perfect harmony with each other, (and truth will, no problem!) in order to receive God's truth on any given doctrine. We must do as Nehemiah and Ezra did in Nehemiah 8:8, as we mentioned in our last post.

Without question, there is a salvation in Mark 16:16 that comes with water baptism, and without which, one cannot have that salvation that is promised. There is also a condemnation mention to those who do not believe; but not condemnation mentioned to those who believe, yet are not baptized! Let us be honest and hear the words of what Jesus is saying. Our blessed Lord Jesus, chose his words wonderfully! And those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will love our Lord for the wonderful words that came from his lips for us to believe, and follow. Never a man spake as our blessed Lord did~what a perfect example to follow.

To be continue....

 

[Red Baker]

Mark 16:15,16

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Matthew 28:18-20

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."

As I said above: "No single scripture are contain in a vacuum, but must be interpreted in the light of the scriptures overall teachings. This is a point that we all should agree on. If you take verses 16,17 of Mark 16, and keep them in a vacuum, and isolate them from others scriptures, then we all would be snake handler and drinking poison just to prove that we are of God. I will pass on both of those two things to prove my faith, thank you."

Matthew in these verses just quoted said nothing about those who hear the gospel and the benefits of believing the gospel and the damnation upon those who do not believe; Matthew's gospel deals strictly with church's responsibility of preaching the gospel into all the world. In Matthew they were to go and teach, and those who believe what they were hearing, were~allowed to be baptised, Acts 8:37; and if they show forth fruits of the Spirit of God already in their hearts, if so, then they were: commanded~Acts 10:48 No one else could be baptized! They had to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance, or else, they were rejected, just as John the Baptist before them taught: Matthew 3:8. The same gospel and same teachings on water baptism, only after John it was done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, even though the precise manner used is not defined clearly in the Acts of the apostles~I know men that say to those being baptised............ "I now baptized you in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, even in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ"~with that...... all bases covered!

Acts 19:4

The said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, this is, on Christ Jesus."

The early church in the gospels and Acts baptized only those who had fruits worthy for one who could and should be baptized. Of course the devil sowed his tares among the true church, as the case has always been. But, the point is this: in order to be baptized, there had to be faith, and fruits that come from such faith, such as: confession, etc.

So, as we consider the scriptures overall, we allow them to interpret themselves to us, not some man, church, etc. My words mean nothing, if I cannot speak in a way, that, not me, but the scriptures becomes it own commentary, concerning truth. Our duty and every other man who speaks the scriptures, is to allow them to deliver truth to us, not us trying to make them say something that they are not saying in order to serve the church that we are affiliated with, if we are indeed affiliated with one, which I am not. I trust that we belong to Christ, not to some group who believes that they are the true church, yet their words tell us that they know nothing of the true church of Jesus Christ.

Let us start by first establishing the truth according to God's testimony concerning the only ground upon which God regenerates anyone.

To be continue...

 

[Red Baker]

Every child of God has his favorite book of the scriptures, a favorite scripture from that book, at least this is true with me. That book is Galatians, and the verse is 2:16. To my simple mind, I am able to grasp hold of the main fabric that is the substance that describes the same gospel, that Paul preached; that gospel, that God revealed in him, concerning his Son. He said that he did not conferred with flesh and blood, neither did he go up into Jerusalem to them that were before him; but he went into Arabia for three years and there was taught the pure gospel of the grace of God, the gospel that he refused to be moved away from. The truth of Paul's gospel, is revealed in Galatians as it is in no other epistle written by him, with Romans a close second. If one understanding of Galatians is solid and firm, then that believer will be saved from the work mongers, that are deceived by the devil.

Let us consider the only moving cause of a sinner being made partakers of the divine nature~2 Peter 1:4; that all things that pertain to life and godliness, has been freely given to us by his will and divine power.

How are ungodly sinners made saints? First, I trust no one would even consider that before a man is born of God, that he is anything other than what God said that he is: ungodly and an enemy of God in his mind/heart.

Romans 4:5; 5:10 Both proves that we were ungodly, sinners/enemies before and toward God. We were without strength, that is, spiritual strength to even help ourselves. Romans 5:6, and even worse than that~were dead in our sins and trespasses. Ephesians 2:1 We were not able to be hear or see, thereby, to understand our terrible state that we were in. Romans 8:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14 We had to be made partakers of the divine nature, before we would be able to hear and see, and to obey. God promised to do these things for us freely by his grace, through his Son, Jesus Christ. We have clear teachings concerning these promises to us, and not only that, we have a perfect example of God keeping his promises in our father Abraham, and his son, Isaac. To see and understand how a sinner is made righteous, then all we need to do to help us to see it clearly, is to take hold of the words of God to Abraham concerning his son Isaac. The allegory is a perfect picture of how we are born of the Spirit of God. It will help God's simple ones to see and to reject all those who are screaming out: "This DO and live"~whereas, the children of promise, hold firm their faith and say that "We are trusting in Jesus alone, for our righteousness, and the gift of eternal life"~ Yes, our sins are forgiven for his sake alone, not anything that we could say or do, could possibility have a part in it. We do not even receive it, to make it so, since it was never offer to us anyway, but freely given. Our faith only give us a assurance, and evidence that we do have this gift abiding within us.

Let us consider Isaac to help us establish a firm foundation to move forward, for without such a foundation, one could argue all day, weeks and years, without any progress. We want to shut the mouths of gainsayers, who have believed in another of gospel, which water baptism is the main element in that gospel.

Galatians 4:28

"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise."

Words cannot be any plainer, can they? Do we have ears to hear the law? How were Abraham's two sons born? One through the energy of the flesh, the other, by the Spirit of God. Galatians 4:29 A few questions should help.

Question #1~What did Isaac do to be born by God's Spirit, who had to quicken Sara's dead womb? Name one thing, just one.

Question #2~Is Isaac birth a true picture/allegory of how one is born again, or is Paul being influenced by someone's theology, and thereby, teaching another gospel?

Question #3~Is Sara, Isaac's mother, the free woman, a type of God's free grace, the only means that God's promises comes to the true children of promise? Galatians 4:23-26!

Questions #4~Is Hagar, Ishmael mother, the bondmaid, a type of the law, and Ismael the children from that law? Are they free or in bondage? bondage, because, there is only freedom by grace alone. No works of the flesh can possibly free those children who are of the bondmaid.

Question #5~Did not he that was born after the flesh, persecuted the child of promise? Even so is it now. v 29

Regeneration, or giving spiritual life to a child of promise, is 100% grace, without works whatsoever. Or, it ceases to be a promise, and then becomes a work. There are only two types of people in this world: one children of promise, the others, children of the flesh.

Romans 9:9,10

"For this is the word of promise. At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac."

The only moving cause of any being made partakers of God's divine nature, is by God's promises of grace to that person, and there are no other reasons, whatsoever. God's promises to the seed of Jesus Christ, is according to his own will and purpose, (Ephesians 1:5-9) of showing grace and mercy to whom he wills. The children of the flesh, do not like these words, and will persecute those who are bold enough to say what the scriptures teaches. These points must be established before other truths can be taught.

To be continue..

 

[Rockson]

Let us start by first establishing the truth according to God's testimony concerning the only ground upon which God regenerates anyone.

To be continue...

So I guess this is where you'll start injecting your Calvinism correct?

 

[Rockson]

How are ungodly sinners made saints? First, I trust no one would even consider that before a man is born of God, that he is anything other than what God said that he is: ungodly and an enemy of God in his mind/heart.

But you're playing a game here RB, You down right know most of Christendom do not accept a Calvinists view of total depravity and what that means.

 

[Red Baker]

We must seek the proper senses of Mark 16~mainly verse 16! Those who handle snakes and kiss them on the nose, are not much different from those who are reckless on insisting on standing with the sound bites of such scriptures~Mark 16:16~both sides are guilty of not rightly dividing the word of God and seeking to make all scriptures flow in perfect harmony with each other, so that, they will render the true interpretation to the seeker thereof. Both ( snake kissers and baptismal generational believers) are running with the mere sound of the words, thinking this is pleasing to God; pray, tell me the difference between the two camps, as far as properly interpreting the word of God. The God of heaven wrote such scriptures, to allow men to deceive themselves, if they are willing to glory in themselves, instead of Jesus Christ alone.

Questions:

#1~How does the scriptures used the word saved/save/salvation in the NT?

#2~Is it used in the same sense every time?

#3~When are we saved?

#4~Without adding our personal opinions~Based on Mark 16:16, what condemns a person~not believing, not being baptized, or both?

#5~Base upon the Spirit's witness,~what is the evidence of one that is born of God, more than any other thing given in the scriptures?

#6~Are OT saints and NT saints born the same way?

The first question will be the one that I want to consider the most, since understanding the proper sense of the word as it is used in Mark 16:16, will determine who has the truth on this verse and who does not.

RB

 

[Red Baker]

So I guess this is where you'll start injecting your Calvinism correct?

Probably even from your perspective view, there will be very little Calvinism (if that is what you chose to called pure grace, that's up to you) even mentioned, other than what I have said so far. I'm truly going after the meaning of the word saved in Mark 16:16 ~ stay tune...

Good morning btw...RB

 

[Red Baker]

But you're playing a game here RB, You down right know most of Christendom do not accept a Calvinists view of total depravity and what that means.

I do not not play, and truly I know what most folks believe and I also know that most churches are in an apostate state~according to 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5! 2ndThess. 2 which we are now witnessing.

I'll be back later to add to this thread~the Lord willing.

 

[mailmandan]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Red Baker]

I need to finish this thread as far as saying what I believe this scripture truly is saying and what it is not saying that so many want it to mean.

I believe we all will confess that all scriptures must flow in perfect harmony, or else, we have not arrived at its truth as far as what we are trying to understand, agree?

By my doctrine overall consider would make me a Baptist by others account, yet, I do not consider myself of any main stream line, just because the word Baptist is a misnomer, at yeast to me, since there are several different types of Baptist. And, besides, I have not been part of any Baptist churches for well over forty years. That hardly qualify's me being a Baptist, other than, I believe in immersion only, and I believe in once loved, always loved! Which is so much better than saying: once saved, always saved, since I do know that we as God's children can lose our practical salvation of peace, joy and fellowship~but never our sonship. But that's enough on that point.

I said that, to say this~Most folk who call themselves Baptist, have no clue whatsoever what Mark 16:16 means, and really do not care. They are very content using religion as a insurance policy to give them somewhat peace of mind concerning death when it comes. Many will be disappointed.

There are others of different faith, that reject water baptism as a means to enter into life, yet do not do interpret Jesus' words properly or even try, they are no different from the Baptist, they too, are very contend believing that their religion that they have chosen to fit their lifestyle show be enough to make God accept them in that day, if there is really a day of Judgment coming, would be their inward thoughts.

There are some who seem very sincere, yet try to make being baptized to mean something other than being baptized in water~yet, we know that they are in error as well, yet more so from just not being able to see the truth, that they seem to love. God is indeed very merciful and longsuffering to our ignorance, if we are at least sincere in seeking for truth, as we all have learned from past experience, at least, I have.

Question #1~"Is saved/save/salvation used in the same sense every time?" The answer to this question is no, saved/save/salvation, is not used in the same sense throughout the scriptures. We must establish and prove this point, so that when we read such scriptures as Mark 16:16 then its meaning will become clear, base upon the scriptures overall considered. So many folk have a agenda, system, or a particular church that they want to defend instead of the truth of the scriptures~and when they come to such scriptures as Mark 16:16, then their agenda, system, or church, has more of a drawing power, than a love for the truth of the scriptures, which are God's testimony concerning truth. We should only be concern with pleasing God, not ourselves, or anyone or anything, be that it may.

Question #2~"How does the scriptures used the word saved/save/salvation in the NT?" Is it used only in being saved from sin and condemnation to being saved to eternal life?

It is used in that sense, but to many surprise, very little. Yet, when people hear of being saved, whether or not they know any truth, their minds can only think of being saved from "hell fire"~that's the way their minds have been programed to believe. They cannot even consider anything else, that's just how shadow churches in the twenty-first century are! They spend their precious time in doing useless things that cannot profit their souls. How sad, but very true.

Let us look at many scriptures and see how the Spirit use the words save/saved/salvation and so that when we read the scriptures, we can read them with understanding.

To be continue....

 

[Red Baker]

Before we let Paul give to us the answer, as to when he was saved~let us first lay this foundation, so to not leave ourselves without a solid defense against the scoffers that will surely come.

1. Every word of God is to be carefully considered to reject sound bites for the sense instead.

The truth comes by carefully reading God's word very distinctly and then giving the true sense of what you are reading, so that, you and your hearers can understand what you are reading. Nehemiah 8:8

Most all corruption of the scriptures is based in sound bits, or the mere sound of words; I would say almost exclusively; I could give many examples, but I believe the reader could do so, as well as I can, for this is not too deep to follow for any of us, and most know that this is so. Proverbs 30:5; Matthew 4:4

Jesus and Paul argued doctrine from a single words, teaching us the care we should pay to each word ourselves. Matthew 22:32,43; John 8:58; 10:35; Galatians 3:16; 4:9; Hebrews 8:13; 12:27

2. The Bible is written in such a way to confuse men about doctrine unless they come humbly.

God is great, and there is nothing that he can not do. He could have easily given us scriptures that every single person would agree perfectly on, without one single disagreement among us, but he did not chose to do it in that manner, and for reasons that he himself chose. Agree?

Consider the reason why he spoke in parables most of the time. I will help you out. Matthew 13:10-17

When people reject truth, then God sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie. 2nd Thess. 2:9-12!

In the OT, God sent lying spirits to Ahab and to Israel. 1st Kings 22:19-23; Ezekiel 14:1-10!

So, we know that the scriptures are not written as clear as they could be written~far from it: it is written with infinite wisdom and holy judgement to reveal truths to some, and to hide it from others. This is so, whether one likes it or not, it does not change the truth of this. There are many more scriptures that will prove this to be so.

3. Jesus had to deal with problem texts being thrown at him by different Jewish denominations.

Search the scriptures in the gospels and see how many times that Jesus answered certain problem text (not from his understanding, but those who thought that they had him trapped in his doctrine!)

The Pharisees at the first, thought they had him many times, even though they later avoided him as much as possible, when it came to dealing with questions concerning the scriptures. They confronted him with provisions concerning divorce~Matthew 19:3-12.

The Herodians confronted him about the legality of taxes~Matthew 22:23-44; The Sadducees confronted him with Moses' rule for childless widows; Matthew 22:23-33; The scribes and Pharisees confronted him about Moses' law for adultery~John 8:1-11.

A. The devil and his false teachers have corrupted the words of God from the very beginning.

The devil question and altered God word to Adam and Eve~Genesis 3:1-5

Jesus had to face the devil's misapplication of Psalm 91:11,12; Paul said that there were many already in his days corrupting the word of God~2nd Cor. 2:17; Paul warned us that they shall increase in the last days: 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5: Peter wrote about unlearned and ignorant men wrestling Paul's words already, before the scriptures were completed! 2nd Peter 3:15,16; many other scriptures warning us of that which was to come: Titus 1:10,11; 2nd Peter 2:1-3; Jude 1:4

So we are now ready to let Paul tell us when he was saved.

 

[Red Baker]

Let's ask Paul the question: when were you saved?

Paul said he was saved before the world began (2nd Timothy 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (Ist Timothy 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (Ist Timothy 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom 13:11).

Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ, and those problem texts that people try to us against us, to insert their own works.

Since God saves sinners in stages, or phases, we must not limit salvation to just one idea or one event at one time. Paul saw his own salvation occurring in five phases.

It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (2nd Timothy 3:1 - 4:4). They prefer fables over truth, so the true doctrine of salvation has been almost lost from the earth.

Everyone talks about "getting saved," but no one can explain it from the Bible. There are "invitations" and "decisions" and "methods" for salvation, but none of these words or ideas are from the Bible.

Paul clearly taught five phases of salvation, the are:

The ETERNAL PHASE is God's plan and choice from eternity to allow sin into the world and to save His elect from it. Since He is eternal and sovereign, God planned in eternity all that He does in time. There are no surprises to God. He planned to allow sin, so that He could display His glorious grace in saving His elect from it and displaying His power and wrath on the rest.

The LEGAL PHASE is God's work to satisfy His holy nature and perfect justice for the salvation of His elect. Because every sin must be punished, He sent a Substitute to die for their sins. His perfect holiness and justice cannot overlook sins and acquit wicked men. He must punish their sins in another, even Jesus Christ. And this He did at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

The VITAL PHASE is God's application of these benefits to us personally and individually. Though He planned to save us from eternity and legally did so with Christ's death on the cross, we still have a depraved and wicked nature at enmity against Him. So He regenerates us into a new life by His Spirit and gives us a new heart that loves Him and righteousness. This is being born again, and it is done entirely by the power of God sometime from conception to death. John the Baptist and the thief on the cross biblical examples.

The PRACTICAL PHASE is our response to His salvation. He sends His Spirit into our hearts, and we cry "Abba, Father." With new hearts from regeneration, we seek the truth and love it when we hear it. We hear the gospel, and we believe it. We want to be baptized to show Him our love. We want to know more of what we can do to please Him, and we gratefully cherish all His promises, which give us comfort and peace now.

The FINAL PHASE is that great day in the future when we shall be declared the sons of God to the whole universe and enter heaven for eternity. Our bodies will be raised from graves and glorified into new spiritual bodies, and we will be thoroughly purged from all sin to be perfectly holy in His presence forever. This great conclusion to the plan of salvation is yet in the future.

As I said in the above post, knowing these five phrases are the key that unlock so many scriptures for us, and will lead us into a proper interpretation of Mark 16:16

When Was Cornelius Saved?

Acts 10:1,2

"There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway."

Cornelius was accepted with God, born again by the Spirit of God, and in possession of eternal life long before he heard of Peter, for his righteous actions and God's declarations about him prove this easy conclusion. No unregenerate man can or will do the things that Cornelius did fervently and zealously, which things were accepted by God in heaven!

Cornelius had been elected by God the Father before the world began (2nd Timothy 1:9); the Son of God had obeyed and died for him some years earlier (Hebrews 10:10-14); and the Spirit had applied the work in the vital act of regeneration during his life (Titus 3:5). Peter, states these three facts plainly for all who will read (Ist Peter 1:2).

God had already made an incredible change in his life by giving him a heart separated him from other Italians . The life-giving voice of the Lord Jesus Christ had called for him to live spiritually, and he lived as certainly as Lazarus came forth from the tomb. He only needed Peter to loose him from some Roman and Jewish burial clothes!

Peter brought the gospel to save Cornelius from despair over his sins (Luke 7:36-50; Romans 7:24-25), from Jewish ignorance of salvation (Romans 10:1-5), from Roman idolatry and superstition (Ist Thessalonians 1:9-10), from ignorance about life and immortality (2nd Timothy 1:9-10), and from confusion about the resurrection (Ist Corinthians 15:2). He needed to learn the way of God more perfectly (Acts 18:24-28), and how to prove his election 2nd Peter 1:5-11), including that of repentance, baptism, to please God (Acts 2:37-47).

It is absurd to make Cornelius a lost sinner that pleased God by works of the flesh! It is absurd to believe he had to make some silly decision for Jesus in order to be justified and born again. He was already serving the Lord far beyond a fleshly decision. He needed Peter to direct his new man in the way of righteousness, not help him get born again.

The word of God is plain. Except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). The kingdom of God cannot be shown to a man not born again, because he cannot and will not see it. If a man believes on Jesus, he is already born again (I John 5:1). If he loves the brethren, he is already born again (I John 4:7). If he does righteousness, he is already born again (I John 2:29). These are evidences of eternal life!

Men do not want a sovereign God, so they corrupt the doctrine of salvation to make their own freewill their saviour. They want to be in charge. Because Cornelius is an extensive salvation story, they corrupt it as well. They make Peter and Cornelius cooperating saviours. We believe Jesus Christ saved Cornelius by Himself ... before he met Peter!

 

[Red Baker]

1 Peter 3:21

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Few point to consider:

1. Those who are baptized properly and with understanding, profit greater than some who believe yet were never baptized for whatever reason it matter not what one could add to a list that could be made. Water baptism does indeed add to our knowledge of the truth, over and above those who have never been baptized. Example:

A. The thief on the cross. He believe that Jesus was indeed the Son of God, just before his spirit left his body, yet was never baptized. His knowledge about Christ was very limited, thereby, he did not have a practical "salvation experience" that should come from being baptized, if that person is instructed properly concerning why they were baptized, and what baptism show forth. Consider this verse:

Mark 16:16

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Most men do not understand this scriptures and it really is not that hard to understand. When men come to such scriptures, they come with their preconceived, and brainwashed understanding. What a shame. Our Lord Jesus ONLY CONDEMN ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE~those who believe not. He did not condemn those who had never been baptized, or shall never be baptized~again only unbelievers. Now, the Lord did indeed say this: "he that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED."

The salvation in this scriptures has nothing to do with eternal life, nothing. It has to do with a practical salvation of KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING of the truth concerning Jesus Christ. A person who is baptized properly by immersion, with a understanding of why they are being baptized has more knowledge concerning the religion of Jesus Christ, and the true gospel of God. That is all our Lord was teaching, when he said those words. How do I know that. By reading the NT epistles. Even the verse above under consideration. "Baptism doth indeed save us! How Peter?

By the resurrection of Jesus Christ! Being dip in water, has no power to save from sin and condemnation. Jesus' faith, obedience and death, and resurrection is what redeems us from the curse of the law of God. Baptism show forth these these in a figure. Those who truly know these things, have being regenerated first by God, then we have a fuller salvation of knowledge when we are baptized with an understanding of what we are doing and what we truly believe in. Our understanding is greater than most of the OT saints, who did not have this ordinance of baptism as we have in the NT.

2. Even Peter said that baptism of itself is and answer to God from a good conscience, made so by the quicken power of Almighty God. This no wicked man has until he is quicken by God.

3. Consider the parenthesis used by Peter. Why do we use parenthesis? So that what we are saying will not be misunderstood as to mean something else, other than what we intend our words to mean. In the parenthesis, Peter leave no doubt that baptism of itself, does not wash away our sins literally.

Later....RB

 

[Red Baker]

Our Lord Jesus, in Mark 16:16, is plainly teaching in his doctrine, who are free from condemnation, and who are not free from condemnation. But, there is more with this wonderful scripture, that can only be seen by those who have been blessed of the Holy Spirit to see and understand spiritual truths, to others, it is still hidden from them.

Faith is the biblical evidence given by the Holy Ghost more than once, as the only means whereby one can have biblical assurance that they are no longer under the condemnation of God's law. Let me make this abundantly clear: faith is the evidence of being born again~it is not the means thereof, but only an evidence. The only means under heaven whereby one is justified freely by the grace of God, is the life and death of the Holy Son of God~there can be no other means, PERIOD! If so, then righteousness would have been by the law, and not by the life and death of God's only begotten Son. The word of the Living God shouts this message loud and clear, but, only those people who have been blessed of God, are able to hear and understand this glorious free shouts of GRACE, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus the Lord. Romans 3:21-24, etc.

What is more within this holy scriptures, you ask? Those who have faith are free from condemnation, and those who do not believe are under the condemnation of God's law. Among those who have believed and who have been baptized into the religion of Jesus Christ, have a salvation over and above those who just believed and were never baptized, for whatever reason. This salvation is practical in its nature, and has nothing to do with our sins being forgiven. That part was totally fulfilled by Jesus Christ ALONE!

Example: The thief on the cross, believed, yet was never baptized into the religion of Jesus Christ, thereby, he never experience and had a knowledge of all that Christ's death accomplished for him. Every person who has been baptized properly by immersion into Jesus' death, should have a more complete knowledge of the doctrine of grace, and the forgiveness of their sins through Christ, if they have been instructed properly in the doctrines of the NT concerning Jesus Christ.

NT believers have a more complete understanding than most all OT saints concerning the life and death of Jesus Christ~baptism being one of the main doctrines instructing them into this blessed knowledge.

Consider: The only reason why Paul re-baptized those in Acts 19:1-7~These men had only received John's baptism after Pentecost, thereby, they had a very incomplete knowledge of many NT doctrines concerning the religion of Jesus Christ, and the benefits of understanding those doctrines.

Baptism has not one thing to do with our sins being forgiven in a legal sense, as men desire it to be. It is only a desire on their part, it is far from being the truth. Christ has become no effect unto such people, whether they understand this or not.

Galatians 5:4

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Or, from the doctrine of God's free grace.

 

[Red Baker]

ACTS II. 37, 38.

Brother G. Beebe - Dear Sir: Your paper has been a welcome visitor for a number of years in my house. My papa and mamma think there is nothing in all this wide world beside it that is equal to it. I belong to, or live in the same church with them, but I cannot see things just like they do, and I would like to have your notions on Acts ii. 37, 38. You may guess that I am somewhat tinctured with what is commonly called Campbellism. Now I wish you to do your best with this text, for if you are right, you know that I am most woefully wrong; and I assure you there is nothing that you could do that would please my old pa and ma so much as for you to give me what they would term a good whipping on this subject. You can do as you like with this. Yours, as ever,

A. G. C.
Franklin, Ky., Sept. 19, 1858.

Reply: The propriety or impropriety of our querist holding the Campbellite doctrine and retaining a membership in a Regular Baptist church, we leave with that church to consider and decide; but it is a little remarkable for one claiming such membership to publish to the world that he is not what he professes to be; still such discrepance between profession and reality may be harmonious with Campbellism. There being no Campbellites in this section of the country, that we are aware of, we do not profess to be very well posted in regard to what they hold. Nearly all we have heard of their peculiar views has come to us from those who profess to disagree with them. We shall, therefore, in offering our notions" on the text proposed, do so without regard to the manner in which the Campbellites, or any other ITES may interpret it. And as to whipping our correspondent, we will leave his or her (as the case may be) papa and mamma to use the rod, as our calling requires that we "be no striker." The text itself is to us a precious one, and taken as it stands in connection with the wonderful display of divine power and grace, and the outpouring of the Spirit of God on the day of Pentecost is the more interesting.

"Now when they heard this." The people addressed were from many, and perhaps all the nations and tribes at that time on the earth, many of whom being Jewish proselytes, had come up to Jerusalem, as their custom was to keep the Pentecost, and they testified that they heard the preaching of these illiterate Galilaeans in their own mother tongue in which they were born, and others mocking, (for there were mockers in the apostles' days as well as at the present time,) said, "These men are full of new wine." Not a very unusual charge to be hurled against the advocates of the truth at the present time. "But Peter standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice," and repelled their slanderous charge, and preached unto the multitude, the gospel, as he was inspired to do by the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, and after having proved by the most unanswerable testimony, that this was in fulfillment of the Old Testament Scriptures, and especially of the prophecy of Joel, and having charge upon the Jews the crucifixion of the Son of God, and that they had done it with wicked hands, he asserted also the resurrection of Christ, and that what they then witnessed was in evidence that Christ was risen and exalted at the right hand of God, and that he having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he had shed forth this which they saw and heard. Then addressing himself to the house of Israel, proclaimed the triumph of the Redeemer, saying, "Let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." These were the people addressed, and they who heard; and this was what they heard.

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart." Men may be wounded, and survive their wounds, but no man, ever pricked in his heart, could recover from the wound. On another occasion some were cut to the heart, and it only made them gnash with their teeth. But when God had poured out his Spirit, quickened their ears, and pricked them in their heart, they cried out, or said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Here was a change wrought in them; before they were thus pricked in their heart, they mocked and slandered the apostles, but now the Holy Spirit had operated effectually, not only ON but IN their heart, sin revived, and they died; that is to their legal hopes they stood convicted of murder, of sacrilege, and of having wickedly and maliciously crucified the Lord of glory. Every filthy rag of their selfrighteousness was effectually stripped off, and their lost and helpless condition was felt and confessed. But although quickened by a spirit that they were strangers to until that hour, they did not know how deliverance could reach their case unless it were by their doing something; and what that something was, or by what power they could perform it, they knew not, and hence the earnest inquiry, "What shall we do?"

Let our querist here observe that those guilt-stricken, heart-pricked sinners, were at this very moment of their anxious inquiry subjects of the quickening power of the Holy Ghost, and that their being quickened was the reason that they were thus affected by what they heard the apostles preach. It was not the preaching that had quickened them, and stopped their mocking, and impelled the heartbroken cry, "What shall we do?" but it was the outpouring of the Spirit and the power of the Holy Ghost that had circumcised their ears and hearts, and prepared the apostles to preach, and them to hear, and feel, and tremble at the word which was declared unto them. This had disarmed them of their rage and malice against the apostles and their doctrine, and brought them down at the feet of the apostles as humble inquirers after the way of life and salvation through the crucified, risen and exalted Redeemer. If the preaching could of itself have quickened them, it would have also quickened all who heard the sound of the apostles' voices; but such was not the case. The exalted Jesus has himself declared, "It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing; the words which I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life." As he only hath immortality, he only can speak life to the dead. The dead shall hear the voice of (not simply the apostles' or preachers' but of) the Son of God, and they that hear shall live. I give, says Jesus, unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish. He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. No man cometh unto the Father but by him. Now these quickened sinners require living bread, as new born babes they desire the sincere milk of the word that they may grow thereby, and Peter is already commissioned and qualified to feed these lambs. They bleat for living, spiritual food, for the spirit of life which has entered their heart has given them an appetite: "What shall we do?" Peter now deals out the children's food, not to dogs, but to new born babes. "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you," &c. Neither repentance nor baptism precedes life, but both follow as the genuine effects of life. If Peter had regarded repentance and baptism as conditions on which life was to be offered, he would not have confined his words to those whom the Lord our God had called, and whose hearts were pricked. But in this case he makes the exclusive application of his words to "every one of you," and gives us the reason of this special and exclusive application, "For," says he, "the promise is unto you, and unto your children, and unto all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." What promise? The promise of the outpouring of the Spirit, and its life-inspiring effects, as in Peter's text, in the prophecy of Joel, and the promise of repentance and remission of sins, for the giving of which the crucified and risen Savior is exalted to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance unto Israel and the remission of sins.

All descriptions of Arminians and workmongers seem to regard repentance as a something preceding spiritual life, and exacted as a condition of salvation, but the Scriptures assure us that it is the gift of God, and that it is a sense of the goodness of God entertained by quickened sinners that leads them to repentance; a vital principle in them leading them to a godly sorrow, which worketh repentance unto life, which needeth not to be repented of. The repentance enjoined on these converts at Pentecost, was that they should renounce Judaism, confess their sins, and rely alone on the risen Redeemer for salvation, to take his yoke, own his name, obey his commands, follow him as their leader, and honor him as their God and Savior.

And with the presentation of these fruits meet for repentance, they were to be baptized, not to put away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience; not to procure remission of sins, but as an ordinance in which is set forth figuratively the washing away of our sins, our death to the law, our burial from the elements of this world, and our resurrection to newness of life.

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized, and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls; and they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship," &c. They were in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship before they were baptized, or they could not have continued steadfastly in it, for if baptism had initiated them into their doctrine and fellowship, it would not be mentioned as a continuance, but as an entrance into it.

We have thus stated some of our "notions." As to "our best," we always try to do as well as we can in giving our views on the Scriptures. We have made no extraordinary efforts, but such views or "notions" as we have, we have presented candidly, and if A. G. C. is benefited by what we have written, or if it shall prove edifying to any of the lambs of the Redeemer's flock, we shall have great cause to rejoice and be thankful.

Middletown, N. Y.
October 15, 1858.

Elder Gilbert Beebe
Editorials Volume 4
Pages 144 - 149

 

[Fred]

Mark 16:9-20 is too unreliable of a text to base any doctrine on.

 

[Red Baker]

Mark 16:9-20 is too unreliable of a text to base any doctrine on.

Fred you need to prove what you are saying. If Mark 16:9-20 is unreliable, then what other scriptures are?

What you are saying is not the faith of God's elect. We believe every scripture is from the mouth of God, every single word. Some doctrines are based upon a single word~need help?

 

[civic]

Mark 16:9-20 is too unreliable of a text to base any doctrine on.

Ditto

 

[Persevering]

Probably even from your perspective view, there will be very little Calvinism (if that is what you chose to called pure grace, that's up to you) even mentioned, other than what I have said so far. I'm truly going after the meaning of the word saved in Mark 16:16 ~ stay tune...

Good morning btw...RB

Please don't take this the wrong way as I'm interested in what you have to say but this is where I usually go get some popcorn Before the action starts.

I've never heard Calvinism called pure grace, that's interesting.