Made lower than the angels means what ?

[Wrangler]

It’s a common known fact that it means trinitarian in reference to monotheism

Yea, centuries of abusing language will get ideas confusing. As I said, as valid as 3 = 1.

 

[Wrangler]

So both the NKJV and KJV are bad translations ?

What translations do you approve?

I would say any translation with the word "James" in the title is one to avoid. People don't talk that way.

It's sad that you even scoured translations for 'the son of the father.' Better to cogitiate on 1 COR 8:6 There is one God, the Father.

 

[Wrangler]

You can’t focus only on the one God and miss Paul’s point about creation. He is calling Jesus equal with God in the passage.

Eisegesis. Obviously, I disagree as a I explained about agency in verse 60.

 

[civic]

With all due respect, you are missing the agency of "through" in the verse. If I see through a peep hole, it does not make the peep hole my eye - or me.

You are reading into the verse co-creator while disregarding the point of unitarianism, there is one God, the Father. So simple to understand, even a trinitarian could understand it.

Does t matter only God creates . Only God existed before creation .

 

[synergy]

Right. Relying on bad translations to make your point.

Typical response. The verse doesn't align with your presuppositions, throw the verse away along with the entire KJV with no mention of any reason why. Give us a break. I'm not into chasing rabbit holes, sorry.

 

[Wrangler]

Does t matter only God creates . Only God existed before creation .

LOL No one is denying only God existed before he created. However, father's create, by definition. Inventors create, by definition.

When my mother said she made dinner, she means she created the meal; sometimes even 'from scratch." For some reason, you are using and abusing definitions to fit your doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

20 Clean Mill

Typical response. The verse doesn't align with your presuppositions

Projecting again.

throw the verse away along with the entire KJV with no mention of any reason why

Would a reason matter to you?

I've stated it elsewhere; the KJV is the worst translation available in English today. Less the FROM, the TO part of the translation is a miss. No one talks that way today. I consider it virtually unreadable. Worse, every neutral of anti-trinitarian verse is construed by the KJV translators showing their extreme eisegesis.

 

[synergy]

20 Clean Mill

Projecting again.

Would a reason matter to you?

I've stated it elsewhere; the KJV is the worst translation available in English today. Less the FROM, the TO part of the translation is a miss. No one talks that way today. I consider it virtually unreadable. Worse, every neutral of anti-trinitarian verse is construed by the KJV translators showing their extreme eisegesis.

Assuming you're correct, how does that impact 2 John 1:3?

 

[civic]

LOL No one is denying only God existed before he created. However, father's create, by definition. Inventors create, by definition.

When my mother said she made dinner, she means she created the meal; sometimes even 'from scratch." For some reason, you are using and abusing definitions to fit your doctrine.

No in 1 Cor 8:6, John 1, Col 1 and Heb 1 the Son created.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Diserner]

Repeating a self-deception does not make it true. I showed you the definition. It is a demonstrable fact. You created the post above ...

Lol.

Prove I created that post out of nothing?

That's absurd.

 

[Wrangler]

Lol.

Prove I created that post out of nothing?

That's absurd.

It’s a Demi strange fact that you created the post. You’re adding ‘out of nothing’ AS IF that is a requirement to be a creator.

 

[civic]

It’s a Demi strange fact that you created the post. You’re adding ‘out of nothing’ AS IF that is a requirement to be a creator.

that is an oxymoron. nothing existed before there was anything came into existence when there was only God,

 

[GeneZ]

Hebrews 2:7
You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,

God made man (for the time being) a little lower than the angels so God could use man to teach angels about themselves.

It will not stay that way forever.

For it says God made man a little lower than the angels "for a little while."

 

[101G]

Hebrews 2:7
You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,

before I reply directly to the Topic, in relation to the topic, Question, who made Jesus Lower than the angels? as stated here in Hebrews 2:7 seems as if someone else beside himself made him lower. but in Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" it was he HIMSELF. that made himself lower. I believe we need to investigate this further. agreed.

101G.

 

[e v e]

I think the op question means
the text regarding that is corrupt
and not what God said.

 

[e v e]

I kind of wish you and other trinitarians would stop declaring victory in the face of your own defeat.

Once again, I am not running. An interesting analysis of Rev 1:1 regarding agency. Worldwide English (New Testament)
1 God showed these things to Jesus Christ to show to his servants. These are things that must happen soon. Then God sent his angel and showed them to John, his servant.

God to his agent and servant Jesus.
Then God to his other agent and servant, his angel.
Then God to his other agent and servant, John.

God in his unitarian nature --> Jesus --> Angel --> John --> Remaining Saints, including you and me.

God is not unitarian

and also He doesn't
have 'pecking orders' in His logic or reality.

that obsession is esau's.

 

[Diserner]

@sethproton @dizerner

Sorry I missed this was addressed to me.

who was made a little lower than the angels] This alludes to the temporal (“for a little while”) and voluntary humiliation of the Incarnate Lord. See Php 2:7-11. For a short time Christ was liable to agony and death from which angels are exempt; and even to the “intolerable indignity” of the grave. Cambridge

I agree with this, Christ accepted limitations in his humanity.

Also the point of the original passage of man being lower than the angels, was the fact that we are more susceptible and physically limited.

There are ways man is above the angels, as Christ did not die to redeem angels, so we share in a unique value and union with Christ.

It was not saying all men are ranked lower than angels (even if they are).

There is nothing mentioned about "rank" in either passage.

Barnes

I don't trust Barnes at all, a Presbyterian Calvinist with aberrant views on original sin.

 

[Wrangler]

God is not unitarian

The Sh'ema says otherwise.

Listen, Israel: Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 (NOG)

Nowhere in Scripture is this contradicted. YHWH is the only God. We relate to him (singular) as our father. 1 COR 8:6 repeats, there is one God, the father (YHWH).

 

[Diserner]

The Sh'ema says otherwise.

Listen, Israel: Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 (NOG)

Elohim is a plural word.

 

[e v e]

The Sh'ema says otherwise.

Listen, Israel: Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 (NOG)

Nowhere in Scripture is this contradicted. YHWH is the only God. We relate to him (singular) as our father. 1 COR 8:6 repeats, there is one God, the father (YHWH).

God has attributes...
which are living beings.