Justice "served" in the Atonement?

[praise_yeshua]

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

There must be an appeal to "law" to establish "justice". An appeal to the Penal aspects of Atonement require "law". A "legal" framework.

Not only notice that the law could not do bring life as referenced in Romans 8:3.....

That same law that could not bring life.... COULD NOT completely condemn/establish justice for sin.

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

This is the proper aspect of dealing with justice in the Atonement.

What say you?

 

[civic]

Love it Amen

 

[Diserner]

The Law could not do it as applied to humans, is the point here.

In other words humans + Law = hell.

Jesus + Law = kept and hell for us.

 

[sawdust]

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

There must be an appeal to "law" to establish "justice". An appeal to the Penal aspects of Atonement require "law". A "legal" framework.

Not only notice that the law could not do bring life as referenced in Romans 8:3.....

That same law that could not bring life.... COULD NOT completely condemn/establish justice for sin.

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

This is the proper aspect of dealing with justice in the Atonement.

What say you?

I will simply repeat what I posted in the other thread. I believe we cannot do justice to the Cross unless we recognise both life and death were dealt with in the event.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/transmitting-the-fallen-nature.1078/page-19#post-42839

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Law could not do it as applied to humans, is the point here.

In other words humans + Law = hell.

Jesus + Law = kept and hell for us.

I have no idea how this applies to what I wrote. I don't even understand the argument. Please elaborate.

Thanks

 

[praise_yeshua]

I will simply repeat what I posted in the other thread. I believe we cannot do justice to the Cross unless we recognise both life and death were dealt with in the event.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/transmitting-the-fallen-nature.1078/page-19#post-42839

From your link....

I think the reason (possibly) others cannot see justice done in the Cross event is because it was love that motivated the Lord Jesus to become as a man and take our punishment but it was justice that saw Him put to death and also saw him raised to life.

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

I see faith in these words. I see Grace in these words. I don't see an appeal to what you're referencing as "justice".

Please share.

 

[sawdust]

From your link....



Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

I see faith in these words. I see Grace in these words. I don't see an appeal to what you're referencing as "justice".

Please share.

Then I can only say I'm sorry you can't see it is justice when God keeps His word. Maybe you don't understand what I mean by "justice done"?

What else is the redemption we have in Christ if not for His death and resurrection?

 

[civic]

Then I can only say I'm sorry you can't see it is justice when God keeps His word. Maybe you don't understand what I mean by "justice done"?

What else is the redemption we have in Christ if not for His death and resurrection?

But His death doesn’t necessarily mean justice was served. I can find literally 100’s that say it was Gods love, grace, mercy, forgiveness that was provided on Calvary but none saying it was justice.

 

[sawdust]

But His death doesn’t necessarily mean justice was served. I can find literally 100’s that say it was Gods love, grace, mercy, forgiveness that was provided on Calvary but none saying it was justice.

I have no doubt God's love motivated the Cross. But why the Cross? Why not simply forgive and welcome us with open arms? It's not as if God is not forgiving, His mercies are new every morning.

To deny the Cross was necessary and a just recompense in order that man might be forgiven of sin and reconciled with God is essentially giving the same argument an atheist gives. You cannot bypass sin or righteousness otherwise God's integrity is nullified.

You may as well say God's word is irrelevant for He longer need keep His word. The Cross is the word "the wages of sin is death" and "righteousness is life" made manifest. God has shown His integrity by keeping His word. The Cross was a just act.

If justice was not served in the death of Christ, then our sins remain unpaid and we are all in very, very deep doo-doo.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I have no doubt God's love motivated the Cross. But why the Cross? Why not simply forgive and welcome us with open arms? It's not as if God is not forgiving, His mercies are new every morning.

To deny the Cross was necessary and a just recompense in order that man might be forgiven of sin and reconciled with God is essentially giving the same argument an atheist gives. You cannot bypass sin or righteousness otherwise God's integrity is nullified.

You may as well say God's word is irrelevant for He longer need keep His word. The Cross is the word "the wages of sin is death" and "righteousness is life" made manifest. God has shown His integrity by keeping His word. The Cross was a just act.

If justice was not served in the death of Christ, then our sins remain unpaid and we are all in very, very deep doo-doo.

If you judge the atonement based solely on "the wages of sin is death", then Jesus could have paid for our sins by dying of old age or getting stabbed or something. The cross was totally unnecessary.

 

[civic]

I have no doubt God's love motivated the Cross. But why the Cross? Why not simply forgive and welcome us with open arms? It's not as if God is not forgiving, His mercies are new every morning.

To deny the Cross was necessary and a just recompense in order that man might be forgiven of sin and reconciled with God is essentially giving the same argument an atheist gives. You cannot bypass sin or righteousness otherwise God's integrity is nullified.

You may as well say God's word is irrelevant for He longer need keep His word. The Cross is the word "the wages of sin is death" and "righteousness is life" made manifest. God has shown His integrity by keeping His word. The Cross was a just act.

If justice was not served in the death of Christ, then our sins remain unpaid and we are all in very, very deep doo-doo.

The wages of sin is death, not justice . Death resulted from sin. Death is not justice especially on the innocent.

Death without the blood is meaningless.

 

[sawdust]

If you judge the atonement based solely on "the wages of sin is death", then Jesus could have paid for our sins by dying of old age or getting stabbed or something. The cross was totally unnecessary.

But Christ had no sin so why would He have died of old age? Are you one who contends that physical death was always intended by God? That sin was not necessary for death to enter?

 

[sawdust]

The wages of sin is death, not justice . Death resulted from sin. Death is not justice especially on the innocent.

Death without the blood is meaningless.

God keeping His word is justice. Death on sin is the reality God has declared hence, when Christ took upon Himself our sin in His body, He died.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

But Christ had no sin so why would He have died of old age? Are you one who contends that physical death was always intended by God? That sin was not necessary for death to enter?

Okay, then a stabbing, a blunt object, sword, or whatever. If only death conferred our punishment upon him, then it doesn't matter how he died.

 

[Diserner]

Death is not justice especially on the innocent.

"All have sinned."

— Jesus

 

[civic]

God keeping His word is justice. Death on sin is the reality God has declared hence, when Christ took upon Himself our sin in His body, He died.

His keeping His word is honesty and integrity

 

[civic]

"All have sinned."

— Jesus

Ditto

 

[sawdust]

Okay, then a stabbing, a blunt object, sword, or whatever. If only death conferred our punishment upon him, then it doesn't matter how he died.

Well, I have often asked why a Cross myself. Apart from the fulfillment of prophecy and the keeping of God's word, I don't know that I have a conclusive answer except to say that is the way the Lord God decided to do it.

You'll have to ask Him if you think He could have done a better/different method.

 

[sawdust]

His keeping His word is honesty and integrity

And integrity requires justice to be executed. That's the point.

 

[civic]

And integrity requires justice to be executed. That's the point.

Yet Christ demonstrated forgivness when the law demanded justice.

He who is without sin cast the first stone. The law required her death. Yet Jesus gave her mercy, grace and forgiveness.

And did it without an atonement, no blood, no justice. Just by His word spoken she was forgiven of her sin. And there are numerous other examples given by Jesus in the gospels.

hope this helps !!!