John Piper: Born again through faith in the gospel

Until one is saved by the new birth, the Gospel is hidden to them 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Cant believe what you cant see, whats hidden from your mind
Sorry 2 Cor 4:3-4 does not state the gospel is hid to all

2 Corinthians 4:4 (LEB) — 4 among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that they would not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

again you simply ignore scripture

You ignored scripture again

The new birth is through the gospel

James 1:18 (LEB) — 18 By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (LEB) — 15 For if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I fathered you through the gospel.

1 Peter 1:18–25 (LEB) — 18 because you know that you were redeemed from your futile way of life inherited from your ancestors not with perishable things like silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb 20 who was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has been revealed in these last times for you 21 who through him are believing in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that has been proclaimed to you.
 
@TomL



To them that are lost, it is. What can be plainer ? 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
Sorry 2 Cor 4:3-4 does not state the gospel is hid to all

2 Corinthians 4:4 (LEB) — 4 among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that they would not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

again you simply ignore scripture

The new birth is through the gospel

James 1:18 (LEB) — 18 By his will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (LEB) — 15 For if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I fathered you through the gospel.

1 Peter 1:18–25 (LEB) — 18 because you know that you were redeemed from your futile way of life inherited from your ancestors not with perishable things like silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb 20 who was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has been revealed in these last times for you 21 who through him are believing in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off, 25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” And this is the word that has been proclaimed to you.

Those believed the gospel and these others do not.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (LEB) — 10 and with every unrighteous deception against those who are perishing, in place of which they did not accept the love of the truth, so that they would be saved.
 
???????

Are you denying these verses that God has a desire to save all and does not desire men to perish?


1 Timothy 2:3–5 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
Are you a Open Theist. If not your position is contradictory and silly.
 
@Presby02
I will be more than happy to do so, in the morning, my day is far spent to do justice to this all important truth. Most religious sects know nothing of the truth how the first church at Jerusalem and Paul's evangelism of the Gentiles from Acts 13-28 in order to wisely defend God’s sovereignty in salvation, and it's importance to rightly understand the gospel and our duties as believers. Most have it all backwards, sad, but true.
Will not finish is one post, so bear with me.

Romans 1:15​

“So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.”

Almost all religious sects believe and teach preaching saves the lost in a regenerate sense, rescues the perishing, and so fills heaven. Almost from every pulpit around this world common scheme Sunday after Sunday is God wants to save everybody so bad that He sent His Son to pay for all their sins, and the Holy Spirit tries to get everyone to believe; so salvation is possible for all, if they would but cooperate with God’s desires.

Gospel preaching is understood and treated as a sacrament for Baptists (I can freely speak of this groups since there are literally hundreds of such churches within a fifty square mile radius of me ~ an outward sign that conveys inward grace ~ to bring eternal life to lost wicked men.

Their doctrine may be reduced to decisional regeneration – the unregenerate and unsaved person may become regenerated with a reservation in heaven by making a mere decision in response to hearing the gospel presented by any sort of means. They sing songs like “Rescue the Perishing,” “Throw Out the Lifeline,” “There’s a New Name written Down in Glory,” and so forth, as thougth that name was written at that very second one believed! So unscriptural.

Organizations to “spread the gospel” are legion with constant financial pleas.

Arminians propose lost men are just ignorant and only need to believe the gospel to be born again. They deny and reject total depravity and exalt the free will of man in God’s plan to save all. To them a mere emotional moment of “deciding for Christ” is sufficient for eternal life.

Some Calvinist aren't much better, they propose lost men are dead and will by necessity believe the gospel to be saved. Even though teaching total depravity and unconditional election, they still require man’s faith. They defend this contradiction by calling faith the instrument of salvation; but once faith is necessary, we ask how much? how long? how correct? how alone?

Because we hold eternal life an unconditional gift of God by election and predestination in Christ with all the operations of grace performed by Divine Power without a single loss, we are ridiculed for removing any purpose or value from preaching the gospel.

I fully understand some holding our doctrine became Fatalists to most human responsibility, after one comes to Christ. Some holding our doctrine became Antinomians to good works after salvation. Some holding our doctrine became Universalists of a false hope for most all men. Some holding our doctrine became opposed to evangelism or preaching to others. we hope to address these points as we move forward.

Many say they see both God’s sovereignty and man’s free will taught in Scripture, but they choose to exalt man and make salvation their own work. We choose rather to exalt Jesus Christ alone and reconcile verses about faith and works as evidence, not conditions.

These two doctrines of salvation differ greatly with horrible consequences (Ezek 13:22). The righteous are made sad by not hearing the glories of an all-sufficient Saviour. The wicked are strengthened by a false promise of life from decisional salvation.

Later....
 
It is veiled because “they refused to love the truth and so be saved”, and therefore, they perish. (2 Thess 2:10b)

Doug
Its hidden because they are lost and the god of this world hath blinded their minds. Now that's all men by nature, our minds are blinded

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Now this describes me by nature, maybe it didnt apply to you. However this is being lost spiritually dead.
 
@TomL

sorry 2 Cor 4:3-4 does not state the gospel is hid to all

Yet it states its hid to the lost. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So if one is lost, then its hidden from them, simple as that. And all men by nature are lost, or do you deny that ?
 
@TomL



Yet it states its hid to the lost. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So if one is lost, then its hidden from them, simple as that. And all men by nature are lost, or do you deny that ?
You ignored the fact

2 Cor 4:3-4 does not state the gospel is hid to all

1 Timothy 2:3–5 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
 
Are you a Open Theist. If not your position is contradictory and silly.
Um you did not address these verses

Are you denying these verses that God has a desire to save all and does not desire men to perish?


1 Timothy 2:3–5 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

but seeing as you wish to go elsewhere, was God free to create or not.
 
These two doctrines of salvation differ greatly with horrible consequences (Ezek 13:22). The righteous are made sad by not hearing the glories of an all-sufficient Saviour. The wicked are strengthened by a false promise of life from decisional salvation.
Continue from post #208

Romans 1:15​

“So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.”
Let us consider the truth concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The TRUTH​

Eternal life is not merely a possibility for any or all; it is rather a certainty for the elect.

The word of God clearly teaches
us God chose some in Christ Jesus before the world began to be saved (Ephesians 1:2-12).
God guarantees all the operations of grace for their glorification (Romans 8:29-39). God sent Jesus Christ to live as a surety and to die a Substitute for these elect (John 6:38-39; 10:11,15; 2nd Corinthians 5:17-19). God the Spirit regenerates Christ’s sheep by His Will (John 1:13; 3:8; 5:26-29). God designed this glorious doctrine of salvation for His glory alone that no flesh should ever glory in his presence...ever! ( 1st Corinthians 1;29-31; Romans 9:22-24). God wrote their names in the book of life before the world began (Revelation 13:8; 17:8). The final salvation of all the elect is guaranteed in the covenant of redemption, and there is not the slightest possibility of a single one of them being lost, no. not ever! Eternal life is not offered to any on conditions, but guaranteed to some freely.

The certainty of eternal life is based in the Faithfulness and Grace of God in Christ; it is not based in the cooperative efforts, faith, or works of sinners. The gospel is the good news of this incredible gift from God in Jesus Christ for the elect. The English “gospel” combines the Old English god (good) + spel (to announce). Our English Bibles use the word “gospel” as “good tidings” (Romans 10:15; Isaiah 52:7).

God’s church of the Old Covenant ~ the Jews ~ had been locked under a system of law works they could not keep until the gospel would come (Galatians 3:22-29). Much of the New Testament presents gospel hope for law-trusting Jews. The rest of the New Testament presents gospel hope and duty for Gentiles. The “gospel of Christ” is the good news of God’s power and wisdom in Jesus Christ to secure eternal life for the elect of Adam’s fallen and condemned race. The “gospel of Christ” is not a spiritual formula for taking eternal life to sinners.

The “gospel of Christ” is not a sacramental pinata to be struck at by blind sinners. As so many teaches. The gospel is not the power of God itself, but rather the good news about God’s power. The gospel is good news ~ it is the revelation of God’s glorious gift of salvation. Because verses are abused repeatedly for their sound, it is hard to see the sense. PLEASE CONSIDER CAREFULLY: The gospel preached in simplicity is only received such by the saved or already born of the Spirit! 1st Corinthians 1:18; with its twin sister's verse, Romans 1:16, the gospel being the power of God ONLY to beleivers, to all else it is pure foolishness, and if anyone believes otherwise, try sharing the gospel with other folks and see the wicked spirit working in most people. some of which go to church somewhere most likely. The gospel reveals God, whom they would not know by nature (1st Corinthians 1:19-21). The gospel reveals the power and wisdom of God in Jesus Christ (1st Corinthians 1:22-24 ). So we easily see the gospel as the good news of God’s power (Romans 1:15-17), for it reveals God’s righteousness from the faith of preachers to the faith of hearers.

I'll come back and finish.
 
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Um you did not address these verses

Are you denying these verses that God has a desire to save all and does not desire men to perish?


1 Timothy 2:3–5 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

but seeing as you wish to go elsewhere, was God free to create or not.
You did not answer my question. Are you a Open Theist?

I will show you how to answer a question instead of spewing the company line. First, you presume your understanding of the word all..

He most certainly was. See how easy that is? Your turn. Are you a Open Theist?
 
You did not answer my question. Are you a Open Theist?

I will show you how to answer a question instead of spewing the company line. First, you presume your understanding of the word all..

He most certainly was. See how easy that is? Your turn. Are you a Open Theist?
Um you did not address these verses

Are you denying these verses that God has a desire to save all and does not desire men to perish?


1 Timothy 2:3–5 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

but seeing as you wish to go elsewhere, was God free to create or not.

Was God not free to create or not create; thus therefore, the future not open at that time?

Now you can address the verses and address whether God was free to create or not created
 
Um you did not address these verses

Are you denying these verses that God has a desire to save all and does not desire men to perish?


1 Timothy 2:3–5 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 3:9 (LEB) — 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

John 3:16–17 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

but seeing as you wish to go elsewhere, was God free to create or not.

Was God not free to create or not create; thus therefore, the future not open at that time?

Now you can address the verses and address whether God was free to create or not created
Was that a yes or a no?

I answered your dumb question. The answer is yes. Pay attention. It's cheap. Your turn. Was God free to create the reprobate with no intention of saving them???
 
Its hidden because they are lost and the god of this world hath blinded their minds. Now that's all men by nature, our minds are blinded

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Now this describes me by nature, maybe it didnt apply to you. However this is being lost spiritually dead.
They are lost because they refuse to believe the truth.

Doug
 
@TibiasDad
They are lost because they refuse to believe the truth.

Doug
Doug, you are 100% correct, so, my question to you is this: "Why do men not believe if they live and die never believing?"
Let us listen carefully to Jesus' reason why some do not believe:

John 10:26,27​

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
 
They are lost because they refuse to believe the truth.

Doug
They refuse to believe because they are lost. One has to be saved from a lost spiritually dead and ruined condition b4 they can believe. As long as one is in a lost condition spiritually, the Gospel is hid. The word hid in 2 Cor 4:3 is the greek word καλύπτω:

  1. to hide, veil
    1. to hinder the knowledge of a thing

Now its also in the perfect tense passive voice

The perfect means something completed in the past with results true in the present and future.

So as long as one is lost, its permanently hidden.

And of course you should know what the passive voice means, the subject [the one lost] is being acted upon !

So when a lost person hears the Gospel, its hidden from them and they believe not. They refuse it, scoff it, but not believe it
 
The perfect means something completed in the past with results true in the present and future.
Wrong! The perfect tense does not say or imply anything about the future. It only says that an action that began in the past is still currently happening at the present moment of reference.


Doug
 
Wrong! The perfect tense does not say or imply anything about the future. It only says that an action that began in the past is still currently happening at the present moment of reference.


Doug
Yes it does. When the completed action was past, with results in the present, the present was future from the past. For instance, if someone finished brushing their teeth at 7 am and they are still brushed at 9 am, wasnt 9 am future from 7 am ?
 
When Jesus said it is finished, its the perfect tense Jn 19 30

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. Lexicon reads:
In Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. Jesus' last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI ("It is finished!") is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense, namely "It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely, once and for all time."

Now will the atonement be a finished once and for 20 yrs into the future ? Yes, its permanent, it wont become unfinished.

Now the gospel is hidden from the Lost permanently. The only exception is if they are saved out of a lost condition, and that's Gods intervention alone
 
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