Jesus taught Provisional Atonement

[civic]

There is no such thing as "provisional atonement"! Either Jesus atoned for his people on the cross, or he did not (he did!). The benefits of that accomplished atonement are fully applied when we believe in Jesus, but the atonement was accomplished on the cross.

1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the worldand therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.


Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone and no exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John.

Only someone with a closed mind trapped in their dogma/doctrine would argue otherwise resulting in eisegesis( reading their own ideas into the text) rather than exegesis ( letting the text dictate ones ideas ).

We see above that the whole world lies under the evil one and its that same identical whole world in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus made PROPITIATION for which is clear from the CONTEXT in 1 John.

So if the above truth from 1 John 2:2 which is clear as to the biblical meaning is all inclusive not exclusive ( Gods elect Jew/Gentiles) which comes from ones dogma/doctrine ( calvinism) and not Scripture and specifically in 1 John makes me a non calvinist then I'm here to official renounce my association with that group.

In 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation.

And how about this below ?

1 Timothy 2:1-6

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

As we see above the Apostle Paul says we are to pray for " ALL " people everywhere even for the " kings in authority" and then uses the same word in the same context of " ALL " people with Jesus giving His life as a ransom for all.

You cannot have ALL mean two different things in the context of the passage. That is once again being dishonest with the text and reading ones doctrine into the passage which is eisegesis

The scriptures above opposes Calvinism and its L in tulip. .

hope this helps !!!

 

[Watchman]

Scripture says there is atonement provided for everyone.



John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

hope this helps !!!

The word translated "world" never means every single person in the world; and would certainly not have been understood that way by a 1st C. audience. It's often used to mean the world in general, as contrasted with one group of people in particular, without referring to the number of individuals.

In Heb. 2:9, the Greek has "...taste death for every.". The translators have to add something for it to make sense in English; however, verse 10 shows that it refers to sons, so, IMO, verse 9 should read, "...taste death for every son.". Of course "every man" or "everyone" are also possible, as long as one understands that they refer to the "sons", in verse 10.

In Titus 2:11, there are two ways to translate the verse. If you take it the way you have chosen, then it cannot mean every single person, since then the verse would lead to Universalism, so it would have to be a generalisation. This problem is solved by using the other way of translating the verse.

Titus 2:11 (KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

In Titus 3:4, God's love towards mankind means that he has chosen to show undeserved mercy to some, rather than condemn us all justly to hell. In other words, as usual, it is mankind in general, not every single person in particular that is in view.

Most of the other verses are also generalisations and certainly not intended to refer to every single person.

Re. 2 Pet. 3:9 - this needs to be read in context (as is always the case).

2 Pet. 3:8,9
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Beloved (i.e. God's beloved elect), God is long-suffering towards us, not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should come to repentance; and, of course, all of God's elect do come to repentance (and faith) and get saved.

Verse 15 confirms this.

2 Pet. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

So, this contextual long-suffering of the Lord is salvation (i.e. it effectually produces salvation in those to whom it is directed).

 

[Watchman]

1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the worldand therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.


Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone and no exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John.

Only someone with a closed mind trapped in their dogma/doctrine would argue otherwise resulting in eisegesis( reading their own ideas into the text) rather than exegesis ( letting the text dictate ones ideas ).

We see above that the whole world lies under the evil one and its that same identical whole world in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus made PROPITIATION for which is clear from the CONTEXT in 1 John.

So if the above truth from 1 John 2:2 which is clear as to the biblical meaning is all inclusive not exclusive ( Gods elect Jew/Gentiles) which comes from ones dogma/doctrine ( calvinism) and not Scripture and specifically in 1 John makes me a non calvinist then I'm here to official renounce my association with that group.

In 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation.

And how about this below ?

1 Timothy 2:1-6

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

As we see above the Apostle Paul says we are to pray for " ALL " people everywhere even for the " kings in authority" and then uses the same word in the same context of " ALL " people with Jesus giving His life as a ransom for all.

You cannot have ALL mean two different things in the context of the passage. That is once again being dishonest with the text and reading ones doctrine into the passage which is eisegesis

The scriptures above opposes Calvinism and its L in tulip. .

hope this helps !!!

I don't have time for all this just now; but, 1 John 2:2 refers to Jesus being the propitiation, not only for Jewish believers, but also for all other people groups. It's not referring to individuals.

That 1 John was written to Jewish believers is evident from 1 John 2:7. .

1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

The passage is about obeying God's commands, loving God and loving others. The Jews had these old commandments, in the OT law, which the Gentiles did not have.

1 Tim. 2: 1-6
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The "all men" in verse 1 obviously refers to all men without distinction, rather than all men without exception; and this is confirmed in verse 2, where we see categories, rather than individuals in view. This usage is consistently the same within this passage.

 

[TomL]

Calvin Institutes 3:21:5 - All are not created on equal terms ,but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.

According to Calvinist theory God hates most of humanity and is actively working to make sure they all end up in hell. That is a level of evil you should only attribute to Satan himself.

Billions of people are in hell because:

(1) they are not part of those who were Unconditionally Elected

(2) they were not granted Irresistible Grace

(3) because of sin that God unchangeably ordained by God for them to commit.

(4) because Jesus did not die for their sins.
People go to hell because of something God didn't do in them, not of anything they could have done.

Calvin teaches:

1. God wants people in hell

2. Humans can only go to hell if they have sin.

3. God decrees for people to sin and they cannot refrain

4. Conclusion: Therefore sin is something good that results in God’s pleasure.

If God has decreed to dam a person forever in eternity and God is the only one who can act on their behalf to change their plight, then God's choosing them for destruction is the first cause of their destruction, not sin. Sin is just the gun God uses to destroy the sinner.

hope this helps !!!

Such doctrine is contrary to scripture and makes God a curse upon much of humanity

 

[TomL]

I don't have time for all this just now; but, 1 John 2:2 refers to Jesus being the propitiation, not only for Jewish believers, but also for all other people groups. It's not referring to individuals.

That 1 John was written to Jewish believers is evident from 1 John 2:7. .

1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

The passage is about obeying God's commands, loving God and loving others. The Jews had these old commandments, in the OT law, which the Gentiles did not have.

1 Tim. 2: 1-6
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The "all men" in verse 1 obviously refers to all men without distinction, rather than all men without exception; and this is confirmed in verse 2, where we see categories, rather than individuals in view. This usage is consistently the same within this passage.

So is it God's will all in the named categories of authority be saved?

Seeing as your doctrine will not admit to this, your apologetic fails

BTW would that whole world be the same whole world mentioned here

1 John 5:19 (LEB) — 19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Also BTW

With respect to the NT texts that use universal language, the bifurcation of “all without distinction” and “all without exception” is ultimately a distinction without a difference. If I speak of all men without racial, gender, or other distinctions, am I not speaking of all men without exception? Whatever the distinction is and whatever the scope of the “all” is must be supplied by the context. The two phrases simply cannot be compartmentalized linguistically. The distinction is artificial.

(all men without distinction is not some men of every kind)

Allen, David L.. The Extent of the Atonement: A Historical and Critical Review (p. 1067). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

In 1 John, the phrase “whole world” only happens twice: 2:2 and 5:19. The world is contrasted to believers. All people living in unbelief at the time John wrote is his meaning. That is, all without distinction of those unbelievers at the time John wrote, and all without exception of unbelievers at the time John wrote.


Nowhere in John does “world” mean “the elect” or “all kinds of the elect,” etc. Many Calvinists throughout Reformed history have pointed this out.



John’s point in 1 John 2: 2 is that there is an accomplished, objective atonement that provides an ongoing means for subjective reconciliation to occur between a sinner and God when the sinner comes to God through Christ by faith. Propitiation accomplished does not, and cannot, ipso facto mean propitiation applied. Without repentance there can be no advocacy applied (1 John 2: 1), and without faith in Christ there can be no propitiation applied. Christ’s death on the cross has made propitiation for the sins of all people and is objectively available— conditionally as to its efficacy to all who will come to God through Christ by faith. If any person confesses his sin, he will find in Christ an Advocate, because Christ is “the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”



Allen, David L.. The Atonement

 

[TomL]

There is no such thing as "provisional atonement"! Either Jesus atoned for his people on the cross, or he did not (he did!). The benefits of that accomplished atonement are fully applied when we believe in Jesus, but the atonement was accomplished on the cross.

You just showed that Christ made provision for benefits to be applied upon belief

That would be provisional atonement

 

[brightfame52]

No actually you did not

John 16:8–11 (LEB) — 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me, 10 and concerning righteousness, because I am going away to the Father and you will see me no more, 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

It obviously refers to unbelievers who are not the children of God

You need to stop twisting scripture

You cant see it,but:

I showed that its to the children of God. The world of the children of God, that's who the Spirit is sent to convict of sin, and make them feel need for Salvation and to believe in Christ.

 

[civic]

You just showed that Christ made provision for benefits to be applied upon belief

That would be provisional atonement

oops

 

[TomL]

oops

Indeed

 

[TomL]

You cant see it,but:

I showed that its to the children of God. The world of the children of God, that's who the Spirit is sent to convict of sin, and make them feel need for Salvation and to believe in Christ.

It's not there

No actually you did not

John 16:8–11 (LEB) — 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me, 10 and concerning righteousness, because I am going away to the Father and you will see me no more, 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

It obviously refers to unbelievers who are not the children of God

You need to stop twisting scripture

 

[civic]

It's not there

No actually you did not

John 16:8–11 (LEB) — 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me, 10 and concerning righteousness, because I am going away to the Father and you will see me no more, 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

It obviously refers to unbelievers who are not the children of God

You need to stop twisting scripture

its obvious to anyone who has eyes to see and read the plain truth in the passage.

it just goes to show us how some will read the bible through a lens of doctrine and the flesh void of truth and twist the scriptures.

 

[Watchman]

oops

There's no "oops" involved, as even a cursory examination of the facts shows.

The expression "provisional atonement" is not used to mean merely "atonement that has been provided", as I'm sure you and the other poster (whom I have put on "ignore", since I will not spend any more time on time wasters) are well aware. It is used to mean something that has not atoned at all, but only provides the possibility for atonement, contingent upon the sinner believing in Jesus Christ. In other words, it denies that Christ accomplished atonement for his people on the cross. It's blasphemous.

The use of equivocation (such as a bait and switch, using different meanings of "provisional") is underhanded and I will not engage with any posters who continue to use such tactics.

 

[brightfame52]

It's not there

No actually you did not

John 16:8–11 (LEB) — 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me, 10 and concerning righteousness, because I am going away to the Father and you will see me no more, 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

It obviously refers to unbelievers who are not the children of God

You need to stop twisting scripture

You cant see it,but:

I showed that its to the children of God. The world of the children of God, that's who the Spirit is sent to convict of sin, and make them feel need for Salvation and to believe in Christ.

The Holy Spirit convicts the elect unbeliever, and they become believers. 1 Cor 14:22-25

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: The word convinced is the same greek word reprove in Jn 16:8-9

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

The Spirit glorifies Christ by causing Faith in Him Jn 16:14

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.