Jesus is God, One with the Father

[atpollard]

Just for fun, let's try the TRINITARIAN version on for size:

[John 1:1-5, 14]
1 In the beginning was [GOD THE SON], and [GOD THE SON] was with [GOD THE FATHER], and [GOD THE SON] was [GOD THE FATHER*]. 2 [GOD THE SON] was in the beginning with [GOD THE FATHER]. 3 All things came into being through [GOD THE SON], and apart from [GOD THE SON] not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In [GOD THE SON] was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it. ... 14 And [GOD THE SON] became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw [GOD THE SON'S] glory, glory as of the only [Son] from the Father, full of grace and truth.

*Theologically, this word should probably be [GODHEAD], but I was keeping the word replacement simple and consistent.

 

[amazing grace]

Just for the record, that is the HYPOSTATIC UNION (Jesus is FULLY man and FULLY God) rather than having anything to do with the Trinity (One God, eternally existing in 3 persons). Modalism (which argues that GOD left heaven to become a man and returned to heaven) - only 1 God that wears different "hats" - has none of the issues with the HYPOSTATIC UNION that you object to. It just makes JESUS "fully God" wearing a man-shaped puppet (no true humanity).

It is just contrary to Apostolic scripture.

I really don't know what you are trying to say - Are you a Trinitarian or are you a Modalist? Why bring all this up?
The apostles did not teach a two nature Christ --- nothing in scripture illustrates a 'fully human' and 'fully God' individual. A human being cannot be immortal and mortal at the same time, all knowing yet not knowing, etc.

The Word predates Jesus ... but coexists with "God" and as "God". Genesis 1 is clear that God is the creator of all things. John 1 is clear that the WORD is the creator of all things ... the word was God . John is also clear that the word was WITH God (making it separate from God ... somehow "God and God" together as "WE are ONE GOD. Even back in Genesis: "Let US make mankind in OUR image - male and female." Plural GOD creates plural mankind that becomes "one flesh".

God laid down the hints right from the start. Genesis 1 uses a plural name for God and both singular and plural pronouns. God is one and more than one from the very first words that God gave us. It seems folly to ignore all that for a good human explanation of what God "really meant".

God with God as God?
How did God create? God spoke --- What did God speak by the breath of his mouth? WORDS
Whose WORDS - His own words which were with him.
The Word was God ---- if the sentence read: the Word was THE God with the definite article that would make the word equivalent to GOD but the definite article is not there so the noun GOD is used as an adjective - in the manner of an adjective.
But it doesn't matter --- tradition wins over truth.

Back in Genesis - elohim can be a single or plural noun dependant on the verbs, pronouns or adjectives used. And God said -- the use of the singular verb 'said' makes elohim a singular noun. Let us make man in our image ---- I believe God was speaking to someone other than himself. I believe that he was speaking to the created angelic beings with him. There are a total of 4 passages in which plural pronouns are used in connection with God in the whole of scripture ---- I can't let those 4 determine that God is a Triune being.

Then we have the actual creation of male and female -- all singular ...... So God created (singular) man in his own image (singular) in the image (singular) of God created he (singular) him; male and female created (singular) he them.

 

[amazing grace]

Just for fun, let's try the TRINITARIAN version on for size:

[John 1:1-5, 14]
1 In the beginning was [GOD THE SON], and [GOD THE SON] was with [GOD THE FATHER], and [GOD THE SON] was [GOD THE FATHER*]. 2 [GOD THE SON] was in the beginning with [GOD THE FATHER]. 3 All things came into being through [GOD THE SON], and apart from [GOD THE SON] not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In [GOD THE SON] was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it. ... 14 And [GOD THE SON] became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw [GOD THE SON'S] glory, glory as of the only [Son] from the Father, full of grace and truth.

*Theologically, this word should probably be [GODHEAD], but I was keeping the word replacement simple and consistent.

Yeah - switching out the terms referring to God to fit your agenda --- of course, it fits the doctrine but it doesn't fit with the whole of scripture. Where did the other disciples teach that Jesus was 'God the Son'? Where is the term 'God the Son' used in scripture?
It's the same as saying 'In the beginning was God and God was with God and God was God.'

I understand 'and the word was God' to be used of God in descriptive sense --- I do not have to change the wording the comprehension lies within my understanding of what is being said.

When you read into scripture or replace the words or add to scripture ---- it is no longer truth.

 

[atpollard]

The Word was God ---- if the sentence read: the Word was THE God with the definite article that would make the word equivalent to GOD but the definite article is not there so the noun GOD is used as an adjective - in the manner of an adjective.

This is incorrect for Greek grammar (where the whole ‘definite article’ argument comes from) when the verb is a form of “to be” (like “is” or “was”). Not that you will be interested, but included because it is funny (and the world needs more funny) …

 

[amazing grace]

This is incorrect for Greek grammar (where the whole ‘definite article’ argument comes from) when the verb is a form of “to be” (like “is” or “was”). Not that you will be interested, but included because it is funny (and the world needs more funny) …

It's called the Coldwell Rule and some scholars agree with it - some do not...... I was talking more about the difference between the Greek nominative case and the Greek vocative case.

But it's good that you took the time to look it up and I appreciated the comic relief!