Jesus denied being God

[MTMattie]

@MTMattie did you the courtesy of mentioning John 8:58 wherein Jesus declares that he is the "I Am", the name of the OT God who existed before Abraham existed.

Please at least read his post before you go off on tangents that contradict the Bible.

Yes. I most certainly did.

I posted 4. Each specifically states


#1.
This ... "“I and the Father are one.”" ... in John 10:30, when Jesus said,
#1. Jesus said he and the Father were one
#2
This ..." “Very truly I tell you, . . . before Abraham was born, I am!”" in John 8:58 Jesus said "I am".
#2. Jesus states he was the I aM.
#3...
This..." “my Lord and my God” in John 20:28 from Thomas.
#3 Thomas was no longer blinded and able to recognize Him.

BUT THE BIGGIE...... FROM THE VERY ONE WE ALL WILL ADMIT INSPIRED THE hOLY sCRIPTURES TO BE RECORDED.....

Even God the Father referred to Jesus as God: “About the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever’” (Hebrews 1:8,
The Supremacy of the Son
…7Now about the angels He says: “He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire.” 8But about the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.”…

Setting the Scene for Hebrews 1:8. The scene in Hebrews 1:8 takes place in the heavenly realm, where God the Father is addressing His Son, Jesus Christ.

quoting Psalm 45:6

Your throne, God, is forever and ever; The scepter of Your kingdom is a scepter of justice.
Context
My Heart is Stirred by a Noble Theme
…5Your arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s foes; the nations fall beneath your feet. 6Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom. 7You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you above your companions with the oil of joy.…

the comments of these last two came from the Berean Standard Bible.

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[TomL]

That's a stretch to say Jesus approved. What did he say directly after that? Didn't he suggest Thomas is not blessed for requiring seeing him to believe?

No stretch at all

He blessed the belief

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[MTMattie]

@Runningman indirectly and inadvertently let slip earlier that he has an affinity towards what can be diagnosed as the Heresy called Adoptionism. I did some research on which cult has that heretical belief and I found some Unitarian offshoots embody it.

I'm going to ask our JW Cult friends if that's something they believe in.

Here is his heretical statement:

He utterly refuses to expound on that statement because he knows that he is in the wrong about it.

Cant wait to see some replies.....

 

[Runningman]

No stretch at all

He blessed the belief

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Thomas isn't someone who didn't see and believed. Thomas saw and believed. That means Thomas didn't have a blessing. Read this part.

John 20
25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

 

[TomL]

Thomas isn't someone who didn't see and believed. Thomas saw and believed. That means Thomas didn't have a blessing. Read this part.

John 20
25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

See here

He blessed the belief

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[MTMattie]

That's a stretch to say Jesus approved. What did he say directly after that? Didn't he suggest Thomas is not blessed for requiring seeing him to believe?

Jhn 20:27
Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
Tools

Jhn 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Tools

Jhn 20:29
Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

READ:

Thomas said
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus replied

“Because you have seen Me, have you believed?

and
Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Jesus confirmed to thomas who he was and for everyomne else who never saw
what Thomas did HE IS GOD

 

[Runningman]

See here

He blessed the belief

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

That would not describe Thomas since he didn't meet both requirements for the blessing. Thomas SAW and BELIEVED. Jesus said those who HAVE NOT SEEN and BELIEVED are blessed.

 

[Runningman]

Jhn 20:27
Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
Tools

Jhn 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Tools

Jhn 20:29
Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

READ:

Thomas said
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus replied

“Because you have seen Me, have you believed?

and
Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Jesus confirmed to thomas who he was and for everyomne else who never saw
what Thomas did HE IS GOD

Actually, Thomas didn't say "You are God" but rather Thomas made a statement about God. Since Jesus said he and his brothers' God is the Father in John 20:17, what makes you think that Thomas was not just shocked to see Jesus with holes in his hands and feet and essentially said "omg?"

Thomas' God is the Father. Jesus said said. Jesus taught nothing to no one about being their God.

John 20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[MTMattie]

Thomas isn't someone who didn't see and believed. Thomas saw and believed. That means Thomas didn't have a blessing. Read this part.

John 20
25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

Who cares?

Jesus blessed those of us who never saw..... yet believe.......

You can not make what you do not understand into a silk purse. (explaining needed?)

Thomas saw, then believed.

I never saw but believe with every molecule of my being.

 

[Runningman]

Who cares?

Jesus blessed those of us who never saw..... yet believe.......

You can not make what you do not understand into a silk purse. (explaining needed?)

Thomas saw, then believed.

I never saw but believe with every molecule of my being.

Thomas wasn't blessed for his words or attitude. Maybe you shouldn't be copying what Thomas says and doing what he does. Do you want to not be blessed also?

 

[TomL]

That would not describe Thomas since he didn't meet both requirements for the blessing. Thomas SAW and BELIEVED. Jesus said those who HAVE NOT SEEN and BELIEVED are blessed.

How is it you are incapable of seeing

his blessing is upon those who believe Jesus is their lord and their God though they have not seen him

The very people for the most part with whom you have been arguing

Hello

 

[MTMattie]

Actually, Thomas didn't say "You are God" but rather Thomas made a statement about God. Since Jesus said he and his brothers God is the Father in John 20:17, what makes you think that Thomas was not just shocked to see Jesus with holes in his hands and feet and essentially said "omg?"

Then why did Jesus bless us who never saw but still believed?

Thomas' God is the Father. Jesus said said. Jesus taught nothing to no one about being their God.

John 20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[TomL]

Actually, Thomas didn't say "You are God" but rather Thomas made a statement about God. Since Jesus said he and his brothers' God is the Father in John 20:17, what makes you think that Thomas was not just shocked to see Jesus with holes in his hands and feet and essentially said "omg?"

Thomas' God is the Father. Jesus said said. Jesus taught nothing to no one about being their God.

John 20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

No there is no OMG in the passage. That thought exists only in the mind of those who would deny Christ

And if he was so shocked he would have led with OMG and not stated my lord and my God

 

[Runningman]

How is it you are incapable of seeing

his blessing is upon those who believe Jesus is their lord and their God though they have not seen him

The very people for the most part with whom you have been arguing

Hello

I am not surprised you cannot see that Thomas isn't the one Jesus described as being blessed. Many Trinitarians are also blind about that verse.

However, according to Scripture, Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the Living God, not God, according to the Father. Peter was blessed for this while Thomas wasn't.

Matthew 16
13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Runningman]

Then why did Jesus bless us who never saw but still believed?

Unlike Thomas who required material evidence to believe that Jesus was resurrected, it's a better attitude to believe the Scriptures and trust that what they say is true. This is what the Bible is all about. God resurrected Jesus and we need to believe that, especially now, around 2000 years after the fact.

 

[MTMattie]

How is it you are incapable of seeing

his blessing is upon those who believe Jesus is their lord and their God though they have not seen him

The very people for the most part with whom you have been arguing

Hello

The Anti-trin are too afraid to actually believe what they read. One reason the JW made their own bible.... to be able to adjust words as needed.

Cannot help but wonder how it is that these folks believe in God YHWH or Father when they have not seen him either?

Just seems too odd.

 

[TomL]

I am not surprised you cannot see that Thomas isn't the one Jesus described as being blessed. Many Trinitarians are also blind about that verse.

However, according to Scripture, Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the Living God, not God, according to the Father. Peter was blessed for this while Thomas wasn't.

Matthew 16
13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Try as you may

You cannot erase the confession

or the blessing upon those who would so confess not having seen

John 20:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

believed what?

That Jesus is their lord and their God

Ignoring the passage and running elsewhere does not make the confession disappear

 

[Runningman]

The Anti-trin are too afraid to actually believe what they read. One reason the JW made their own bible.... to be able to adjust words as needed.

Cannot help but wonder how it is that these folks believe in God YHWH or Father when they have not seen him either?

Just seems too odd.

The Trins have made many of their own Bibles. The vast majority of the Bible translations are by Trinitarians. Are you afraid when someone who isn't a Trinitarian translates the Bible? The Trinitarian Bibles' have many serious errors in them. Even John 1:1 flatout removes the "the" definite article from before The God. There are also several instances of alterations to the Bible perpetuated by Trinitarians. 1 John 5:7, 1 Timothy 3:16, just to name a couple.

 

[TomL]

The Anti-trin are too afraid to actually believe what they read. One reason the JW made their own bible.... to be able to adjust words as needed.

Cannot help but wonder how it is that these folks believe in God YHWH or Father when they have not seen him either?

Just seems too odd.

Even the JW bible the NWT reads

Joh 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"

 

[MTMattie]

I am not surprised you cannot see that Thomas isn't the one Jesus described as being blessed.

Why do you deflect? Who gives a rats a$$ if Thomas was blessed or not.

The blessing was for the believers.... "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

Do you really care if Thomas was ever blessed? I dont.

Many Trinitarians are also blind about that verse.

However, according to Scripture, Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the Living God, not God, according to the Father. Peter was blessed for this while Thomas wasn't.

Matthew 16
13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.