Jesus denied being God
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
Runningman
Active Member
Um.... in every language and culture if someone calls you good teacher and you turn and say why they are calling you good then that's a rhetorical question with the obvious answer being you're not the good teacher. Jesus was taught by God. Did you know that? He was saying he isn't the good teacher, really, but rather God is.
So Jesus is a teacher who got his teachings from God. Who is the real good teacher then: God or Jesus?
John 7
16“My teaching is not My own,” Jesus replied. “It comes from Him who sent Me.
John 8
28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.
It is not obvious. Perhaps a teacher simply wants to know why this person is calling them that.
Runningman
Active Member
It means that Jesus isn't God. It's actually very straight forward to most people. You're just heavily indoctrinated.
In your confused way of thinking.
I have had students tell me they thought I was a good teacher.
I have asked them why they thought so...I wanted to know what I was doing right.
That doesn't mean I was denying I was a good teacher.
Get a clue.
Runningman
Active Member
It means Jesus isn't God. Most people accept this and understand it when they don't have a horse in the race to lose. When you get to the point that you love the word of God more than what you think is true you'll be a believer too. Right now you can't see it.
You can keep living in clown world if you want.
civic
Active Member
civic
Active Member
Projecting again.
Runningman
Active Member
Project this:
John 17
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
civic
Active Member
You twist that passage into a theological pretzel and miss Jesus whole point.
Christ is claiming equality with the Father. To know both the Fatger and the Son. You deny their equality therefor do not love Jesus like you claim. You actually hate ( love Him less ) Jesus which is evident the way you devalue Him by not giving Him glory , honor , worship , praise and prayer.
Your posts against the Son affirm everything in my post is true.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
You must not be a disciple of Jesus.
Matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Luke 6:40
A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and trainingin righteousness,
Hebrews 12:11
For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Matthew 28:20
didaskó: to teach
Original Word: διδάσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: didaskó
Phonetic Spelling: (did-as'-ko)
Definition: to teach
Usage: I teach, direct, admonish.
1321 didáskō (from daō, "learn") – to teach (literally, "cause to learn"); instruct, impart knowledge (disseminate information).
In the NT, 1321 /didáskō ("teach") nearly always refers to teaching the Scriptures (the written Word of God). The key role of teaching Scripture is shown by its great frequency in the NT, and the variety of word-forms (cognates).
[This includes three noun-forms, two adjectival forms, and one verb, totaling about 220 occurrences in the NT)
mathéteuó: to be a disciple, to make a disciple
Original Word: μαθητεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: mathéteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (math-ayt-yoo'-o)
Definition: to be a disciple, to make a disciple
Usage: I make a disciple of, train in discipleship; pass: I am trained, discipled, instructed.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3100 mathēteúō (from 3101 /mathētḗs, "disciple") – to disciple, i.e. helping someone to progressively learn the Word of God to become a matured, growing disciple (literally, "a learner," a true Christ-follower); to train (develop) in the truths of Scripture and the lifestyle required, i.e. helping a believer learn to be a disciple of Christ in belief and practice. See 3101 (mathētēs).
1. A Disciple puts Jesus first in all things (Mark 8:34–38). The disciple of Christ needs to be set apart from the world. Our focus should be on our Lord and how to please Him in every area of our lives. We must put off self-centeredness and put on Christ-centeredness.
2. A Disciple follows Jesus’ teachings (John 8:31–32). We must be obedient children and doers of the Word (James 1:22). Obedience is the supreme test of faith in God (1 Samuel 28:18). Jesus said, “Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me” (John 14:21). Jesus is also the perfect example of obedience as He lived a life on earth of complete obedience to the Father even to the point of death (Philippians 2:6–8).
3. A Disciple Bears fruit (John 15:5–8). Loves others (John 13:34–35). Christian disciples should live fruitful lives, displaying the fruit of the Spirit, good works, and “the peaceful fruit of righteousness” (Hebrews 12:11). Technically, producing fruit is not our job; our job is to abide in Christ, and the fruit will come (John 15:1–8). God’s goal is that we produce “much fruit” (verse 8), as Christ uses us to bring about blessed change in a broken, fallen world. Love of other believers is an evidence of our being a member of God’s family (1 John 3:10). Love is described in 1 Corinthians 13:1–13. These verses show us that love is not an emotion; it is action. In order to love, we must be doing something and involved in the process. One way to show love is to think more highly of others than of ourselves and to look out for their interests (Philippians 2:3–4). Another way to show love is to be patient and not take offense at every provocation (1 Peter 4:8).
4. A Disciple becomes a disciple maker(Matthew 28:18–20). Disciples multiply. One of the last things Jesus said to His disciples before His ascension was the command to “go and make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:19). This involves evangelism—sharing the gospel and urging people to repent and believe in Christ—but it also involves discipleship. Christians should be actively engaged in training people who will in turn train others. That’s the pattern we see in Jesus’ ministry: He trained eleven men who spent the rest of their lives as disciple-makers, training others to also become disciple-makers, and so on. We see this pattern also in 2 Timothy 2:2.
A disciple is one who puts Jesus first, obeys the Lord, produces good fruit, loves others, and makes more disciples.
Therefore, “Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender. After each time Jesus commanded cross bearing, He said, “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?” (Luke 9:24-25). Although the call is tough, the reward is matchless.
When Jesus began teaching that He was going to die at the hands of the Jewish leaders and their Gentile overlords (Luke 9:22), His popularity sank. Many of the shocked followers rejected Him. Truly, they were not able to put to death their own ideas, plans, and desires, and exchange them for His.
Following Jesus is easy when life runs smoothly; our true commitment to Him is revealed during trials. Jesus assured us that trials will come to His followers (John 16:33). Discipleship demands sacrifice, and Jesus never hid that cost.
In Luke 9:57-62, three people seemed willing to follow Jesus. When Jesus questioned them further, their commitment was half-hearted at best. They failed to count the cost of following Him. None was willing to take up his cross and crucify upon it his own interests.
Therefore, Jesus appeared to dissuade them. How different from the typical Gospel presentation! How many people would respond to an altar call that went, “Come follow Jesus, and you may face the loss of friends, family, reputation, career, and possibly even your life”? The number of false converts would likely decrease! Such a call is what Jesus meant when He said, “Take up your cross and follow Me.”
If you wonder if you are ready to take up your cross, consider these questions:
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing some of your closest friends?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means alienation from your family?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means the loss of your reputation?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your job?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your life?
In some places of the world, these consequences are reality. But notice the questions are phrased, “Are you willing?” Following Jesus doesn’t necessarily mean all these things will happen to you, but are you willing to take up your cross? If there comes a point in your life where you are faced with a choice—Jesus or the comforts of this life—which will you choose?
Commitment to Christ means taking up your cross daily, giving up your hopes, dreams, possessions, even your very life if need be for the cause of Christ. Only if you willingly take up your cross may you be called His disciple (Luke 14:27). The reward is worth the price. Jesus followed His call of death to self (“Take up your cross and follow Me”) with the gift of life in Christ: “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it” (Matthew 16:25-26).got questions
The Great Commission
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
So being a disciple is not an option its the beginning point in the great commission. One cannot be a follower of Jesus without being His Disciple. A Disciple is the starting point of a believer, a christian.
Who is the Lord ?
Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:28). From then on, the apostles’ message was that Jesus is Lord, meaning “Jesus is God.” Peter’s sermon on the Day of Pentecost contained that theme: “Let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah” (Acts 2:36). Later, in Cornelius’s house, Peter declared that Jesus is “Lord of all” (Acts 10:36). Note how in Romans 10:9 Jesus’ lordship is linked to His resurrection: “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
The statement “Jesus is Lord” means that Jesus is God. Jesus has “all authority in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18). He is Lord of the Sabbath (Luke 6:5). He is “our only Sovereign and Lord” (Jude 1:4). He is, in fact, the Lord of lords (Revelation 17:14).
Jesus referred to Himself as “Lord” many times (e.g., Luke 19:31; John 13:13). And when we compare the Old Testament with the New, we find several times when the “LORD” (Yahweh) of the Hebrew Bible is equated with the “Lord Jesus” by the apostles. For example, Psalm 34:8 says, “Taste and see that the LORD is good,” and that passage is alluded to in 1 Peter 2:3, except there Jesus is the “Lord” who is good. Isaiah 8:13 says that “the LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy”; in 1 Peter 3:15 we are commanded, “In your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy” (ESV).
Amazingly, the Lord Jesus left His exalted position in heaven and came to earth to save us. In His Incarnation, He showed us what true meekness looks like (see Matthew 11:29). Just before His arrest, Jesus used His power and authority to teach us humility: “Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet” (John 13:14). The last will be first, according to our Lord (Matthew 19:30).
In saying, “Jesus is Lord,” we commit ourselves to obey Him. Jesus asked, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46). An acknowledgement of Jesus’ lordship is logically accompanied by a submission to Jesus’ authority. If Jesus is Lord, then He owns us; He has the right to tell us what to do.
A person who says, “Jesus is Lord,” with a full understanding of what that means (Jesus is God and has supreme authority over all things) has been divinely enlightened: “No one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:3). Faith in the Lord Jesus is required for salvation (Acts 16:31).
Jesus is Lord. It’s the truth, whether or not people acknowledge the fact. He is more than the Messiah, more than the Savior; He is the Lord of all. Someday, all will submit to that truth: “God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:9–11).got?
conclusion: you are not His disciple since your faith is not in the Son and you deny Him and love Him less ( hate ) compared to the Father.
Matthew 10:24-39
The Meaning of Discipleship
24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!
26 “Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 27 What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. 28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.
32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.
37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.
Luke 6:46-49
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”
Matthew 25:31-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
There is only One Lord, do you really love Him more that all , the Judge of all ?
1 Cor 8:6
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Eph 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Rom 10:9-13
1 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
Jude 4
and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
As Lord (YHWH ) He answers prayer
John 14:14
14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
Acts 1:24-26
And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place." 26And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles
Acts 7:55-60
5 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. 58When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 8:22
"Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you
Acts 10:2-4
and prayed to God continually. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in to him, and said to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And fixing his gaze upon him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.
1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ — their Lord and ours:
2 Cor 12:8-10
8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
Everyone will bow before the Lord ! Before Jesus every knee will bow.
Rom 14:10-12
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
Phil 2:10-11
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
2 Cor 5:9-11
Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for 1 his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men,
hope this helps !!!
1 Cor 8:6
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Eph 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Rom 10:9-13
1 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
Jude 4
and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
As Lord (YHWH ) He answers prayer
John 14:14
14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
Acts 1:24-26
And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place." 26And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles
Acts 7:55-60
5 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. 58When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 8:22
"Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you
Acts 10:2-4
and prayed to God continually. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in to him, and said to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And fixing his gaze upon him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.
1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ — their Lord and ours:
2 Cor 12:8-10
8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
Everyone will bow before the Lord ! Before Jesus every knee will bow.
Rom 14:10-12
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
Phil 2:10-11
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
2 Cor 5:9-11
Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for 1 his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men,
hope this helps !!!
MTMattie
Active Member
You cannot understand English... That has to be it... for you do not witness what all bibles say. You do not witness what any bible says unless perhaps a JW bible.....
John 1:1 (NMV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God-Theos, and the Word was God-Theos.And how many shape shifters would you call a person??????
civic
Active Member
Deut 6
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build,11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
13 Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. 16 Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah. 17 Be sure to keep the commands of the Lord your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you. 18 Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors, 19 thrusting out all your enemies before you, as the Lord said.
The many gods/lords contrasted with the 1 God and 1 Lord
1 Cor 8:5-6
There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship many gods and many lords. 6But for us,
There is one God, the Father,
by whom all things were created,
and for whom we live.
And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ,
through whom all things were created,
and through whom we live.
So we see the many lords/gods are false while the One God/Lord created all things, is before all things and is who we live through and by who we live through.
Only someone with presuppositions would read the text any other way to deny Christ of His glory that is equal with the Father.
see John 17:5 and Phil 2- He shares the equal glory, honor, praise, worship with the Father are creator of all things as per Heb 1:8-10 cf Rev 4-5.
In the NT, we frequently find the phrase, "God the Father". We never find this phrase, the OT, only in the New, after the incarnation of the Christ.
So if only the Father is God, then why did the Biblical authors need to DISTINGUISH the phrase, "God" with "the Father", instead of simply saying "God" as they did in the OT?
Why wasn't "God" sufficient?
Why the need for "God the Father"?
I will suggest an answer, it was to distinguish the Father from the Son, since the Son is also (the same) God.
Secondly, Paul created a convention of calling the Father "God" (without denying His Lordship), and calling Jesus "Lord" (without denying His deity). What many people don't realize (or at least appreciate is that the Jews CONSTANTLY referred to God as "Lord" in the OT. Taking the commandment to not take the Lord's name in vain to the extreme, they had a habit of NEVER uttering it. So when they were talking about Him to each other, or reading His name in Scripture, they would substitute His name with either "HaShem" ("the name"), or "Adonai" ("Lord"). In fact, that's how the name "Jehovah" came about, by taking the Tetragrammaton, "YHWH", and adding the vowel points for "adonai", and getting "Yahovah". So when the first century Jews were constantly referring to Jesus as "Lord", there were strong connotations of deity.
Finally, the major daily prayer for the Jews is the Sh'ma, Deut. 6:4-5:
Deut. 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
...............................................................YHWH......elohim.......YHWH
So not only were "Lord" and "God" deeply associated with each other in the Jews' daily prayer, this is associated with a New Testament passage, written by a very devout and knowledgeable Jew, namely Paul:
1 Cor. 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
This isn't Christian theology, it's Jewish theology, expanded with Christian revelation.
Christ is called the following which would be against the Shema for a Jew proving Christ is Lord( YHWH in the OT and NT.
Our Lord and Savior
Our Lord and God
Our God and Savior
Our True God and Eternal Life
Our Only Sovereign and Lord
Our God and Creator
Our Savior and Lord
Our Lord and Savior
hope this helps !!!
MTMattie
Active Member
The more I read from this one , the more I belive they have a close tie to JW.
That bible reads... 1 In the beginning was the Word,a and the Word was with God,b and the Word was a god.c 2 This one was in the beginning with God.d 3 All things came into existence through him,e and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
Obvious why they do not believe in the Trinity, because they call the Word, who we know as Jesus, A god.
civic
Active Member
It sure seems like that's the case.
MTMattie
Active Member
Just trying to decide if I am going to continue an effort in futility or let this one hopefully die a peaceful death???
There are two participants in this that are seemingly the same person. And I believe I have tangled with them elsewhere.... definitely one of them.
Before the day is out Ill decide.... as there are so many more things to discuss and debate in those 66 books.
civic
Active Member
More evidence from Scripture your theology is in grave error.
Below once again we see the EQUALITY between the Father and the Son.
1-God is our judge (Ps 50:6, Eccl 12:14) Jesus is our judge (2Tim 4:1, Rev 20:12)
2-God is the temple of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:22) Jesus Christ (the Lamb)is the temple of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:22)
3-God is the first and the last (Is 44:6, 48:12) Jesus is the first and the last (Rev 22:13)
4-God is the beginning and the end (Rev 21:6) Jesus is the beginning and the end (Rev 22:13)
5-Only God can forgive sins (Lk 5:21) Jesus forgives sins (Lk 5:20)
6-God is our hope (Ps 71:5) Jesus is our hope (1Tim 1:11)
7-God is eternal(Deut 33:27) Jesus is eternal (Is 9:6, Heb 1:10-11)
8-God will come with the holy ones (Zech 14:5) Jesus will come with the holy ones (1Thess 3:13)
9-Only God is our savior (Is 43:11) Jesus is our savior (Tit 2:13, 2Pet 1:1)
10-God is the creator of the universe (Is 44:24, Jer 27:5) Jesus is (Jn 1:3)
11-To God, every knee will bow and every tongue confess (Is 45:22-23) To Jesus (Phil 2:10-11)
12-God is the same and His years will have no end (Ps 102:27) Jesus is the same and His years will have no end (Heb 1:12)
13-God is immutable (Mal 3:6) Jesus is immutable (Heb 13:8)
14-God is over all (Ps 97:9) Jesus is over all (Jn 3:31)
15-The spirit of God dwells in us (Rom 8:9) The spirit of Jesus dwells in us (Gal 4:6)
16-God is a stone of offence and a stumbling block (Is 8:14) Jesus is a stone of offence and a stumbling block (1Pet 2:8)
17-God is our shepherd (Ps 23:1) Jesus is our shepherd (Jn 10:11, 1Pet 5:4, Heb 13:20)
18-God is our Lord of Lords (Deut 10:17, Ps 136:3) Jesus is Lord of Lords (Rev 17:14)
19-God is our only rock (Is 44:8, Ps 18:2, 94:22) Jesus is our rock (1Cor 10:4)
20-No one can snatch us out of Gods hand (Deut 32:39) No one can snatch us out of Jesus hand (Jn 10:28)
21-God is the horn of salvation (2Sam 22:3) Jesus is the horn of salvation (Lk 1:68-69)
22-God renders according to our works (Ps 62:12) Jesus renders according to our works (Mt 16:27, Rev 22:12)
23-God loves and corrects (Prov 3:12) Jesus loves and corrects (Rev 3:19)
24-Gods words will stand forever (Is 40:8) Jesus words will stand forever (Mt 24:35)
25-God is the eternal light (Is 60:19) Jesus is the eternal light (Jn 8:12, Rev 21:3)
26-God seeks to save the lost (Ez 34:16) Jesus seeks to save the lost (Lk 19:10)
27-Paul is a slave of God (Tit 1:1) Paul is a slave of Christ (Rom 1:1)
28-God raised Jesus from the dead (Gal 1:1) Jesus raised himself from the dead (Jn 2:19-21)
29-God is our guide (Ps 48:14) Jesus is our guide (Lk 1:79)
30-God is our deliverer (Ps 70:5, 2Sam 22:2) Jesus is our deliverer (Rom 11:26)
31-God is called God (Is 44:8) Jesus is called God (Jn 20:28)
32-God is the king of Israel (Is 44:6) Jesus is the king of Israel (Mt 27:42, Jn 1:19)
33- God is the Alpha and Omega (Rev 1:8) Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (Rev 22:13)
34- God is the king of Kings (1 Tim 5:15-16) Jesus is the King of Kings (Rev 17:14)
35- God is worshiped by all creation( Rev 4-5) Jesus is worshiped by all creation ( Rev 5)
conclusion: the Father and Son are EQUAL just as Paul declares in Phil 2.
hope this helps !!!
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
These 35 points indicate that Jesus speaks and acts on behalf of God, and receives authority from God.
Mine is not a post-hoc interpretation: It is Jesus Himself who explains that He does not speak or act but what has been ordered by God, and that all powers or authority He has he has received it from God.
Baha'u'llah said "If Jesus had said "I am God" He would have spoken the truth". That's the whole point of being a Messenger and Manifestation of God. Even in the burning bush in Exodus 3, it is a Messenger from God who speaks as if He were God Himself.
***
Now, I can also list many items supported by the Bible that demonstrate that God is superior to Jesus.... that they relationship is not symmetrical, and that they are not equal. How would you explain that list?
