Jesus alone could do that directly
Jesus denied being God
- Thread starter Runningman
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Peterlag
Active Member
Again, there's nothing in the New Testament that says only God can forgive sins.
Runningman
Active Member
You are literally just making things up. Paul wrote Philippians and he didn't say what you did. It's no small matter to distort Scripture.
Paul stated was in the very form of God, but did not keep His abode, and he chose to accept limitations of assuming human flesh
Peterlag
Active Member
The Bible teaches that God is the “head” of Christ...
“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God” (1 Corinthians 11:3). The Trinitarian explanation of this verse is that God was the head of Christ only while he was on the earth, but the Bible never says that. Peter’s teaching to the Jews on the Day of Pentecost says “God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” (Acts 2:36).
God must have greater authority than Jesus in order to make him the "Lord." Christ would have already been the “Lord” if he was God—in which case God would not need to “make” him the "Lord." It's also taught that Jesus must be God because he's called the “Lord.” The Greek word for Lord is kurios and is a masculine title of respect and nobility, which is why we see many others besides God and Jesus being called the “Lord."
“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God” (1 Corinthians 11:3). The Trinitarian explanation of this verse is that God was the head of Christ only while he was on the earth, but the Bible never says that. Peter’s teaching to the Jews on the Day of Pentecost says “God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” (Acts 2:36).
God must have greater authority than Jesus in order to make him the "Lord." Christ would have already been the “Lord” if he was God—in which case God would not need to “make” him the "Lord." It's also taught that Jesus must be God because he's called the “Lord.” The Greek word for Lord is kurios and is a masculine title of respect and nobility, which is why we see many others besides God and Jesus being called the “Lord."
Jesus, as Second person of the trinity, was willing to assume limitations of being Incarnated as human flesh, and while as a man, was temp subordinate to the Father while upon the Earth
Peterlag
Active Member
There's no Scripture that says that.
Paul Philippians Chapter 2
dwight92070
Active Member
It's just the opposite. Jesus is claiming that He is God. You don't understand those verses. In essence Jesus is saying: "Since you don't believe I am God, why would you call me good?" Then He says, "No one is good except God alone."
Obviously, the man did not believe that Jesus was God - but that He was just a "good teacher" - just like you and so many other anti-Trins and anti-Deity people.
Mark 10:17 "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luke 18:18 "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
By His question, Jesus was calling attention to the fact that He was more than just a "good teacher". He was God in the flesh.
Jesus knew and we know that He is good. He said, "I am the good shepherd"." He also said, "Which of you convicts Me of sin?" He knew that He was God and the Shepherd of Israel - Psalm 80:1 He knew that He was without sin, as only God is.
The Bible calls some men good, but no man is intrinsicly good, except for Jesus, who is God.
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Peterlag
Active Member
There's nothing in the book of Philippians that says Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood. Nothing.
What did Jesus empty himself from?
What the Scriptures say he was... the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, thus, royal blood. He humbled himself from what he was and took on the role of a servant.
After saying that Christ was in the form of God, Philippians 2:6 goes on to say that Christ “considered being equal with God not something to be grasped at.” If Jesus were God, then it would make no sense at all to say that he did not “grasp” at equality with God because no one grasps at equality with himself. Some Trinitarians say, “Well, he was not grasping for equality with the Father.” That is not what the verse says. It says Christ did not grasp at equality with God, which makes the verse nonsense if he were God.
The Greek word morphē does not refer to the essential nature of Christ in that context. If the point of the verse is to say that Jesus is God, then why not just say that? If Jesus is God, say that, don’t say he has the “essential nature of God.” Of course God has the “essential nature” of God, so why would anyone make that point? This verse does not say “Jesus being God” but rather “being in the form of God.” Paul is reminding the Philippians that Jesus represented the Father in every possible way.
From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.
The trinitarian has only 3 to pick from...
1.) Use a verse from a bad translation.
2.) Use a verse that is taken out of context.
3.) Not understand how the words were used in the culture they were written in.
And basically that's all trinitarians have. And I mean 100 percent of what they have. They have nothing else.
Runningman
Active Member
There would be no need to a redirecting of the title "good teacher" to God if Jesus were that good teacher. In common sense, Jesus denied being God. People believe this fast, intuitively, and without hesitation when I show it to them. The only people who struggle with Jesus' miscellaneous denials of being God are the trinitarians. It's because you all have been deceived and indoctrinated into a cult. No easy way to say it, but you just need to at least be informed and decide what to do with it.
I also might add, Jesus has a teacher who is not himself, meaning that Jesus can't be the good teacher. Jesus is the good student compared to the Father, the Good Teacher.
John 8
28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.
Peterlag
Active Member
"And after being baptized and Spirit filled, Saul IMEDIATELY went out into the synagogues preaching: "JESUS IS GOD!"
oops, scratch that.
"He immediately went and preached "Jesus is GOD INCARNATE!!". -whoops.
"And IMMEDIATELY went and preached "JESUS IS THE SON OF THE TRINITY!!"
ouch.
"And IMMEDIATELY Saul went and preached "JESUS IS GOD THE SON!!" ... arguhhhh.
WHY IS THIS SO HARD??
oh, I know. Because the Trinites and Oneness came along to say what is never written. No WONDER people let lies enter smooth as butter but take dynamite to get out.
MAYBE THE BIBLE SAYS IT BETTER?
"20 And immediately he proclaimed Jesus in the synagogues, saying, “He is the Son of God.” "and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ."
Some of you need to encounter the same Jesus Paul did instead of parroting church errors and arguing for what the Bible NEVER says.
"He immediately went and preached "Jesus is GOD INCARNATE!!". -whoops.
"And IMMEDIATELY went and preached "JESUS IS THE SON OF THE TRINITY!!"
"And IMMEDIATELY Saul went and preached "JESUS IS GOD THE SON!!" ... arguhhhh.
WHY IS THIS SO HARD??
oh, I know. Because the Trinites and Oneness came along to say what is never written. No WONDER people let lies enter smooth as butter but take dynamite to get out.
MAYBE THE BIBLE SAYS IT BETTER?
"20 And immediately he proclaimed Jesus in the synagogues, saying, “He is the Son of God.” "and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ."
Some of you need to encounter the same Jesus Paul did instead of parroting church errors and arguing for what the Bible NEVER says.
It does seem hard to unitarians. This is obvious because they mess up with the scriptures so severely. Thanks for reminding us of your errors. I'm not ready to overlook half of the scriptures just to accommodate the unitarian belief system."And after being baptized and Spirit filled, Saul IMEDIATELY went out into the synagogues preaching: "JESUS IS GOD!"oops, scratch that.
"He immediately went and preached "Jesus is GOD INCARNATE!!". -whoops.
"And IMMEDIATELY went and preached "JESUS IS THE SON OF THE TRINITY!!"ouch.
"And IMMEDIATELY Saul went and preached "JESUS IS GOD THE SON!!" ... arguhhhh.
WHY IS THIS SO HARD??
oh, I know. Because the Trinites and Oneness came along to say what is never written. No WONDER people let lies enter smooth as butter but take dynamite to get out.
MAYBE THE BIBLE SAYS IT BETTER?
"20 And immediately he proclaimed Jesus in the synagogues, saying, “He is the Son of God.” "and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ."
Some of you need to encounter the same Jesus Paul did instead of parroting church errors and arguing for what the Bible NEVER says.
Runningman
Active Member
It's because they import vocabulary, definitions, and concepts not stated in the Bible in order to explain away the truths that inconvenience them. There is really no way around it. Why else would @mikesw disparage what the Bible plainly and literally states if it were an asset to him?"And after being baptized and Spirit filled, Saul IMEDIATELY went out into the synagogues preaching: "JESUS IS GOD!"oops, scratch that.
"He immediately went and preached "Jesus is GOD INCARNATE!!". -whoops.
"And IMMEDIATELY went and preached "JESUS IS THE SON OF THE TRINITY!!"ouch.
"And IMMEDIATELY Saul went and preached "JESUS IS GOD THE SON!!" ... arguhhhh.
WHY IS THIS SO HARD??
oh, I know. Because the Trinites and Oneness came along to say what is never written. No WONDER people let lies enter smooth as butter but take dynamite to get out.
MAYBE THE BIBLE SAYS IT BETTER?
"20 And immediately he proclaimed Jesus in the synagogues, saying, “He is the Son of God.” "and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Christ."
Some of you need to encounter the same Jesus Paul did instead of parroting church errors and arguing for what the Bible NEVER says.
a silly post by peterlag deserves another silly response by runningman. I am not like unitarians who miss obvious passages like John 1 that show the deity of Christ. I am not like unitarians who read one verse they think is in their favor for weird doctrines while rejecting the nearby verses that dispel their belief system.
I cannot simply erase half of scriptures just to accommodate the belief system of the unitarians.
Runningman
Active Member
You don't need to erase anything. Just begin in Genesis and you'll see that all the way until Malachi there is no mention of a trinity or a plural God. Start with Matthew and keep going and the narrative remains consistent.
Will you please explain what you would need to erase in order for your belief system to survive?
you have demonstrated erasure all the time. you have put stupid conditions of proof such as showing that the person of Jesus would have to be seen in the OT for a proof of preexistence before becoming incarnate.
Runningman
Active Member
Then stop saying "Jesus pre-existed" if you think it's stupid. Perhaps you don't realize you must be responsible and accountable for the things you say. Who or what pre-existed if you now confess Jesus didn't pre-exist?
Peterlag
Active Member
Here's what hit my mind when I read your above comment...
No, I don't want to see the word trinity in the Bible...
I want to see the trinity doctrine taught in the Bible and if it's not taught by the Jews and that means the Old Testament Prophets and not the unbelieving Jews you guys always throw in my face. And if it's not taught in the New Testament. Then it's not a biblical concept.
I see that your reading comprehension is not so good. I may have written it that way early on but then realized that would really confuse the unitarian and open up opportunities to respond the way you just did. However, you would have to only read old posts to justify your present error.
I speak of the preexistent One that became incarnate as Jesus. That is the more precise way of speaking of John 1 and the other passages about preexistence. Maybe now that you know that John 1 speaks in this fashion you may be able to start comprehending who Jesus is.
Of course the answer to who preexists, the answer is the One known in addition to the Father within the Godhead. Duhh.
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