Israel is the Elect of God

[mikesw]

Jesus can anything He wants, especially the power and ability to "raise up children of Abraham" from stones, but it remained unnecessary since we are not saved by what we do but by what God and His Christ does.

There is no such thing as "accept Jesus into your heart" or "confess with your mouth and believe in your heart" since salvation in Scripture was never synergistic but monergistic. After the sacrifice was made for the sins of the children of Israel the blood was sprinkled upon the people determinately and without asking since the whole Law of Moses given to the children of Israel came with a sacrificial system of yearly atonement for their sins and which in the process of time God would deal with their sins eternally through the cross of Calvary.
Salvation is OF THE JEWS, NOT of the Gentiles.

True. Jesus and the Father can raise children for Abraham from the stones. God raises children from non-Hebrews no matter how much some misguided people deny God. You message of denial has no value whatsoever and is odd that you think it has benefit to share.

 

[jeremiah1five]

True. Jesus and the Father can raise children for Abraham from the stones. God raises children from non-Hebrews no matter how much some misguided people deny God. You message of denial has no value whatsoever and is odd that you think it has benefit to share.

All three Hebrew covenants is between God and the Hebrew people and since Scripture cannot be broken (added to, subtracted from, or changed and altered), then the issue rests on interpretation, which interpretation doesn't keep in accordance with the Old Testament prophecies.

I believe Jesus who said, Scripture cannot be broken.

When copying the Hebrew Scripture if a scribe made a mistake of one jot or tittle the whole work must be thrown away. Why?
Because the Hebrews know that God says what He means and means what He says, and once He says anything man cannot add to it, subtract from it, or change it to mean or say something else. IF even one person who tries to change what is spoken or written by God that person is a false apostle or false prophet, or false pastor, or false evangelist, or false teacher, or false Christian. God does not change, and God's Word does not change.

But through your interpretation you change God's Word, and this a true believer does NOT do.

 

[mikesw]

All three Hebrew covenants is between God and the Hebrew people and since Scripture cannot be broken (added to, subtracted from, or changed and altered), then the issue rests on interpretation, which interpretation doesn't keep in accordance with the Old Testament prophecies.

I believe Jesus who said, Scripture cannot be broken.

When copying the Hebrew Scripture if a scribe made a mistake of one jot or tittle the whole work must be thrown away. Why?
Because the Hebrews know that God says what He means and means what He says, and once He says anything man cannot add to it, subtract from it, or change it to mean or say something else. IF even one person who tries to change what is spoken or written by God that person is a false apostle or false prophet, or false pastor, or false evangelist, or false teacher, or false Christian. God does not change, and God's Word does not change.

But through your interpretation you change God's Word, and this a true believer does NOT do.

I'm sorry. If I have followed Jesus and he has given more authoritative teaching then you, I guess I will have to take the consequences of following Jesus. And of course, Jesus can add benefits in whatever way he sees fit. I can enjoy the benefits he confers. If you knew scripture, you would have stopped your incomplete ideas that your vision led you into. You sort of speak okay of OT benefits that Israel had until AD70 but you missed the whole NT information. that is like you are living in the stumbling stone ages. Christ became a stumbling stone to them. You just keep stumbling and doing it all over again.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm sorry. If I have followed Jesus and he has given more authoritative teaching then you, I guess I will have to take the consequences of following Jesus. And of course, Jesus can add benefits in whatever way he sees fit. I can enjoy the benefits he confers. If you knew scripture, you would have stopped your incomplete ideas that your vision led you into. You sort of speak okay of OT benefits that Israel had until AD70 but you missed the whole NT information. that is like you are living in the stumbling stone ages. Christ became a stumbling stone to them. You just keep stumbling and doing it all over again.

Any interpretation of Scripture as written in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets that contradicts what has been written beforehand in the Hebrew Scripture is error and should be rejected.
Scripture cannot be broken.

 

[mikesw]

Any interpretation of Scripture as written in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets that contradicts what has been written beforehand in the Hebrew Scripture is error and should be rejected.
Scripture cannot be broken.

sure. I'm waiting for you to correct your understanding which has conflicted consistently with what Paul has shared about Christ

 

[jeremiah1five]

sure. I'm waiting for you to correct your understanding which has conflicted consistently with what Paul has shared about Christ

Saul was a rabbi and a Pharisee. He would not write or say anything that would contradict anything in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets.
Therefore, any Gentile interpretation of the New Testament that contradicts the Old Testament is false and should be rejected.
Scripture cannot be broken.

 

[mikesw]

Saul was a rabbi and a Pharisee. He would not write or say anything that would contradict anything in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets.
Therefore, any Gentile interpretation of the New Testament that contradicts the Old Testament is false and should be rejected.
Scripture cannot be broken.

so you are saying that Saul also was condemned to judgment with most of the rest of Jerusalem. That is insane thinking. If you understand the Old Testament you realize that even from Moses that the fate of the Israel people generally was not good. However, I don't think any passage in scripture will wake you up from your stupor
Deut 32:19 -24 (ESV):

“The LORD saw it and spurned them, because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters. And he said, ‘I will hide my face from them; I will see what their end will be, for they are a perverse generation, children in whom is no faithfulness. They have made me jealous with what is no god; they have provoked me to anger with their idols. So I will make them jealous with those who are no people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. For a fire is kindled by my anger, and it burns to the depths of Sheol, devours the earth and its increase, and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains. “ ‘And I will heap disasters upon them; I will spend my arrows on them; they shall be wasted with hunger, and devoured by plague and poisonous pestilence; I will send the teeth of beasts against them, with the venom of things that crawl in the dust.

I hope as many people as possible can see instead the blessings through Christ. But this is not promised in Deut 32. The reason God's strove with Israel so long, despite it being people of the flesh, is that they were the one through whom the Christ and redeemer of the world would come. That is how the blessing of nations would come about before the Israel nation was destroyed

 

[jeremiah1five]

so you are saying that Saul also was condemned to judgment with most of the rest of Jerusalem. That is insane thinking.

Man, don't you know anything?

Those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world were never under God's condemnation. I'll let you think that through.
If you can.

If you understand the Old Testament you realize that even from Moses that the fate of the Israel people generally was not good. However, I don't think any passage in scripture will wake you up from your stupor
Deut 32:19 -24 (ESV):

Israel had many 'fates.' Some good, some not so good. Only the dead know that everything has been said and done and human history is over, and all God's people are with Him right now.

I hope as many people as possible can see instead the blessings through Christ. But this is not promised in Deut 32. The reason God's strove with Israel so long, despite it being people of the flesh, is that they were the one through whom the Christ and redeemer of the world would come. That is how the blessing of nations would come about before the Israel nation was destroyed

If would be no Christ without an Isaac.
God has no reason to bless any non-Hebrew "nations" or Gentiles. He things the Gentile nations are nothing and vanity.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Not even God gives that which is holy to dogs or casts His pearls to swine.
At the Marriage Supper Israel is there through covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation.
Matt 22.

 

[mikesw]

Reply

Man, don't you know anything?

Those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world were never under God's condemnation. I'll let you think that through.
If you can.

Israel had many 'fates.' Some good, some not so good. Only the dead know that everything has been said and done and human history is over, and all God's people are with Him right now.

If would be no Christ without an Isaac.
God has no reason to bless any non-Hebrew "nations" or Gentiles. He things the Gentile nations are nothing and vanity.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Not even God gives that which is holy to dogs or casts His pearls to swine.
At the Marriage Supper Israel is there through covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation.
Matt 22.

whatever you like to believe. you just pick ideas that you want to believe and build them up as your doctrine against the testimony of scripture.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Reply

whatever you like to believe. you just pick ideas that you want to believe and build them up as your doctrine against the testimony of scripture.

Those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world were never under God's condemnation. I'll let you think that through.
If you can.

Israel had many 'fates.' Some good, some not so good. Only the dead know that everything has been said and done and human history is over, and all God's people are with Him right now.

If would be no Christ without an Isaac.
God has no reason to bless any non-Hebrew "nations" or Gentiles. He things the Gentile nations are nothing and vanity.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Not even God gives that which is holy to dogs or casts His pearls to swine.
At the Marriage Supper Israel is there through covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation.
Matt 22.

 

[mikesw]

Those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world were never under God's condemnation. I'll let you think that through.
If you can.

Israel had many 'fates.' Some good, some not so good. Only the dead know that everything has been said and done and human history is over, and all God's people are with Him right now.

If would be no Christ without an Isaac.
God has no reason to bless any non-Hebrew "nations" or Gentiles. He things the Gentile nations are nothing and vanity.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Not even God gives that which is holy to dogs or casts His pearls to swine.
At the Marriage Supper Israel is there through covenant.
Gentiles are there by invitation.
Matt 22.

you have to stop following your demon doctrine. Now you contradict OT scripture too and you are denying God his ability to fulfill prophecy. you don't even know what Isa 40:17 is about, yet you try to use it in an argument. You are like the blind leading the blind.

 

[jeremiah1five]

you have to stop following your demon doctrine. Now you contradict OT scripture too and you are denying God his ability to fulfill prophecy. you don't even know what Isa 40:17 is about, yet you try to use it in an argument. You are like the blind leading the blind.

Don’t just say I contradict Scripture. Prove it or sit down.

 

[mikesw]

Don’t just say I contradict Scripture. Prove it or sit down

There is no basis for you to ask me to explain scripture that you have only used as quick proof texts. You are demanding that I do your work for you when you are too lazy to do it yourself. It is a lazy demon that is driving you to deception without substance. You have just reminded me that I should not even be casting pearls of truth to swine. So I probably should not respond to your posts.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There is no basis for you to ask me to explain scripture that you have only used as quick proof texts. You are demanding that I do your work for you when you are too lazy to do it yourself. It is a lazy demon that is driving you to deception without substance. You have just reminded me that I should not even be casting pearls of truth to swine. So I probably should not respond to your posts.

There is a basis. If you make a claim of Scripture, you must back it up with Scripture rightly divided.
When you don't do that then you're a false accuser calling God a liar.
Plain and simple.
And calling good evil is a sin because you're calling God evil.
But I doubt your eyes are open to see this truth.

 

[mikesw]

There is a basis. If you make a claim of Scripture, you must back it up with Scripture rightly divided.
When you don't do that then you're a false accuser calling God a liar.
Plain and simple.
And calling good evil is a sin because you're calling God evil.
But I doubt your eyes are open to see this truth.

So you say "There is a basis. If you make a claim of Scripture, you must back it up with Scripture rightly divided." You obviously have used a verse out of Isa 40 and not backed up your claim of the contextual sense of that verse, so you admit your guilt here.
And you are full of doubt, as you just noted.

I do not quite understand how your message can be interpreted as helpful for anything. All you seem to do is glorify what you see as your unique benefit of supposedly following God as if you are of the elect. Beyond that you just appear to tear down God's people rather than build up or encourage others. Maybe there is some positive contribution you find in your unfounded and misguided doctrines you share. (If you appeared merely to be an honest student of scripture within a broad range of acceptable Christian sensibility, you would get a different type of response from me. Or even if you had a reasonable challenge to some common doctrine, you still could get reasonable responses.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

So you say "There is a basis. If you make a claim of Scripture, you must back it up with Scripture rightly divided." You obviously have used a verse out of Isa 40 and not backed up your claim of the contextual sense of that verse, so you admit your guilt here.
And you are full of doubt, as you just noted.

I do not quite understand how your message can be interpreted as helpful for anything. All you seem to do is glorify what you see as your unique benefit of supposedly following God as if you are of the elect. Beyond that you just appear to tear down God's people rather than build up or encourage others. Maybe there is some positive contribution you find in your unfounded and misguided doctrines you share. (If you appeared merely to be an honest student of scripture within a broad range of acceptable Christian sensibility, you would get a different type of response from me. Or even if you had a reasonable challenge to some common doctrine, you still could get reasonable responses.)

Unlikely.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deut 7:5–9.

There is no passage of Scripture of God saying any of these things about being "holy" "special" ABOVE all people in the earth" to Gentiles or that He "loves" Gentiles.
Too bad.

 

[brightfame52]

Unlikely.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deut 7:5–9.

There is no passage of Scripture of God saying any of these things about being "holy" "special" ABOVE all people in the earth" to Gentiles or that He "loves" Gentiles.
Too bad.

Thats the Church. Gods Love is only in Christ Jesus. And Gentiles are Included, it was just a Mystery at that time.

 

[mikesw]

Unlikely.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deut 7:5–9.

There is no passage of Scripture of God saying any of these things about being "holy" "special" ABOVE all people in the earth" to Gentiles or that He "loves" Gentiles.
Too bad.

whoopee. you still have not said anything pertinent to the time of Christ. Scripture, including what Jesus said, condemns the haughty and endorses the point of the proverb -- pride comes before the fall. I hope there are some cushions on the ground around you. Nor have you said anything to edify anything but your own ego. Do you wish to keep tearing apart what God has done? Do you wish to do that which is characteristic of the devil, namely to accuse, steal, and kill? You should recognize what you are doing and repent from it rather than glory in sin.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Thats the Church. Gods Love is only in Christ Jesus. And Gentiles are Included, it was just a Mystery at that time.

At the time God spoke these words in Deut. 7:6 there was only the great congregation of over three million Jews in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle. The children of Israel is the Church (called out of Egypt) of God. She is also the Bride (betrothed) to God.
But you prove my point. Gentiles have taken what belongs to Israel and have made it all apply to them.
That's called inheritance theft.

The promises were given to Abraham, then Isaac, and then Jacob, and then Jacob's children.

1 THE book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; Mt 1:1–2.

Judas is the tribe of Judah.
"Judah and his brethren" are the children of Jacob/Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

whoopee. you still have not said anything pertinent to the time of Christ. Scripture, including what Jesus said, condemns the haughty and endorses the point of the proverb -- pride comes before the fall. I hope there are some cushions on the ground around you. Nor have you said anything to edify anything but your own ego. Do you wish to keep tearing apart what God has done? Do you wish to do that which is characteristic of the devil, namely to accuse, steal, and kill? You should recognize what you are doing and repent from it rather than glory in sin.

You give too much glory to the "devil."

The "devil" cannot steal, kill, or destroy anything.

But sin can.