101G
Well-known member
Not a copy, but the ECHAD of one person in the EQUAL SHARE of himself in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. just as Genesis 1:1 clearly states.
101G
Isaiah and the trinity
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
101G
7xLightray
Member
What does "image" mean in Heb 1:3 "image of his person"?
The word in Heb 1:3 "image of his person," is the word: charaktēr G5481, which does mean: "an exact copy." Which means an exact copy of His person. Which is not the same person, but a copy of that person.
I do not know of the word "ECHAD" in Gen 1:1, but there is one in Gen 2:24; two persons come together and make one flesh, but are two beings!
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all
"image of his person"? the EXPRESS, or the Exact same person in which H259 ECHAD explain clearly. Listen to the definition of H259 ECHAD,
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
Now, let's examine this definition. if #1 is correct then the bible must be in ERROR, for as you said, the "in Gen 2:24; two persons come together and make one flesh, but are two beings!" that's for humans, in which ONE creature became two creatures, now with God if one follows your example, then there had to be two being in the beginning, and God is ONE being. so that want work. also if one being was to come in flesh and only existed when in flesh, then that being is not God. now that only LEAVE one in the beginning, but H259 ECHAD do not say this.
so, let's examine your IMAGE. a IMAGE do not exist without a source. God is Spirit, and in the beginning God had no flesh bone and blood. well that leave your "person" correct. is a person an IMAGE that is manifested without a body? no, for character is abstract, only when a body, (concrete) can a character be manifested. so in Hebrew 1:3 the Image is the Person, not a separate person, but the same person Manifested. because the character, or the characteristics can be copied, but is not the person, foe Hebrew 1:3 states the EXPRESS IMAGE of his person. and that term EXPRESS states EXACT, meaning it's the same one person.
example, when someone act, or copy the devil ways or characteristics is a son of the devil, but is not the devil himself. or vice versa with God. now if the person is the Express Manifestation in flesh then it's that person. and no where in the bible where the devil came in flesh, if so, please post the scripture to nthat effect.
so your assessment is INCORRECT, try again.
101G
7xLightray
Member
This verse is expressing order or succession.. Gen 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be oneH259 flesh." ..by it's explanation..
1. Here is the first in order, Gen 2:20 "..but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him." [Adam all alone]
2. And here is the last in order, Gen 2:22-23 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." [the second in order is an image of the first, and is another person]
God's image must work with all scripture. And God's explanation of His own image (Gen 2:24) works with all scripture. It does not work with the one you are suggesting, as Jn 17:3; 6:51; Gen 1-2 shows.
Let me stop you right here. You got my example wrong! The word that comes out of ones mouth is not a person! You are still not understanding what I have said. I've made this very clear, that there was only the Father person in the beginning with His spoken word (which word was not a person, but is living). Before there was Eve, there was Adam and His rib, which rib was then made into a person.
Are you and your spoken word, two persons, two beings? No! So, how did you get two person beings in the beginning?
"also if one being was to come in flesh and only existed when in flesh, then that being is not God. now that only LEAVE one in the beginning, but H259 ECHAD do not say this." And with this, you told me you have not heard a single word that I've said, not a single word did you hear! Also, this statement of yours "also if one being was to come in flesh and only existed when in flesh, then that being is not God." is not true. Let me explain..
Born after it's own kind! We are human, and if we humans have children, they are human, because they were made from humans. If God had a child they would be God, because they were made from God (they would not be the only true God person the Father, though). But God took His word, which is God (but not a person), and made a man from that word, which word was God. So, one would be equal to (or image of) God, because they were made out of God, and this one would also be man, because they were made in every way like man in flesh, was reared as a man, and grew up as a man, but came forth out of God (and man).
You started off with false premises.
It does not leave just a person, it leaves spirit/light, and a person!
"is a person an IMAGE that is manifested without a body" God does share His person/character image, through His holy spirit (which is not in bodily form) with the Born Again person, starting the process of becoming an image of God's character. Man was made in the image of God, and was in the beginning made good, which is also an image of God's character.
Are you saying God could not see His own image of His own character if He wanted? God is without a body and eyes like man, does that mean God cannot see?
Did not the invisible God, who is not in bodily form, manifest His His character when He delivered the Israelites from Egypt? If God could do that then why could He not make a copy of His character, which is not a person, but is God's power (His word), and manifest that? I see no reason why He could not. And we are talking about a word coming out of Gods mouth, not a person, or abstract character, no, something real, more real than you, it (the word) made you! Did nothing make you?
Again, started off with a false premises.
101G
Well-known member
thank you, for the succession of God himself is in ORDINAL DESIGNATIONS of FIRST and LAST.... . in TIME, ORDER, PLACE, and RANK.... just as 101G been saying.
ERROR in Reference to God. let's get it right. the Order was in TIME. Adam was created on day 3 and the woman was brought forth on DAY 6
understand the woman was IN the man on DAY 3 and was NOT BROUGHT FORTH ON DAY 6. know, both was created on DAY 3 and their GENDER was made on day 6 when the woman was brought fourth or Manifested in the world.
please understand your bible.
it do LISTEN, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
FIGURE: G5179 τύπος tupos (tï '-pos) n.
1. a die (as struck).
2. (by implication) a stamp or scar.
3. (by analogy) a shape, i.e. a statue.
4. (figuratively) style or resemblance.
5. (specially) a sampler (“type”), i.e. a model (for imitation) or instance (for warning).
[from G5180]
KJV: en-(ex-)ample, fashion, figure, form, manner, pattern, print
Root(s): G5180
let's see it, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Express IMAGE? G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image
Compare: G1125, G1504
See also: G5480
BINGO.
if what you said is true, so, was the Lord GIVEN the Holy Spirit at the birth of the flesh or at his Baptism?
now is the IMAGE of Man is God's character, so how is the character Manifested ... or seen? correct in a body
101G.
101G.
7xLightray
Member
You are welcome, but you forgot the explanation part, they are still two persons. And Jn 17:3 is still two persons. Recall we went over this, cant be the person that both sent and did not send, that is impossible. Your God, and your doctrine, dies right here!
Tell me how you yourself (your person) can be both the one that sent yourself and did not send yourself? Please don't reply with that one word, explain how, for child to understand. It's impossible!
"ERROR in Reference to God. let's get it right. the Order was in TIME."
Time! I would like to know, how you didn't get time out of my comment, of Adam was all alone, and before there was Eve, there was Adam and his rib?!
Can you explain the rest of your comment with scripture? "Adam was created on day 3 and the woman was brought forth on DAY 6
understand the woman was IN the man on DAY 3 and was NOT BROUGHT FORTH ON DAY 6. know, both was created on DAY 3 and their GENDER was made on day 6 when the woman was brought fourth or Manifested in the world."
"2. (by implication) a stamp or scar."
"3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped."
Yes, a copy of the original! When one engraves something, they are making a copy of something that already exists in the world. Either you are the exact same person, or you are an image. I've already shown scripture does not support this doctrine of yours. Jn 17:3 is still two persons. Recall we went over this, cannot be the person that both sent and did not send, that is impossible.
This was your comment, "God is Spirit, and in the beginning God had no flesh bone and blood. well that leave your "person" correct."
This was my response, "It does not leave just a person, it leaves spirit/light, and a person!" because you were speaking of in the beginning. So, in the beginning God was a person and spirit/light, that is what I was commenting on, because by your comment, as I understand you, you were saying God was just a person in the beginning, which I disagree with, for God is light/spirit and a person. So, what this has to do with the holy spirit at Christ's birth, and baptism, I have no clue. But here is what I know..
Here is the holy spirit, the word, becoming flesh..
Luk 1:35 "And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon [G1909] you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow [G1982: From G1909 and a derivative of G4639] you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God."
..with..
Mat 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise...she was found with child of [G1537 means: out of, or out from] the Holy Ghost.]"
..again..
Mat 1:20 "..for that which is conceived in her is of [G1537 means: out of, or out from] the Holy Ghost."
..and here at His baptism..
Luk 3:22 "and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”"
They were able to see the holy spirit in bodily form. So, God could see Himself in bodily form.
"now is the IMAGE of Man is God's character, so how is the character Manifested ... or seen? correct in a body"
And this was my comment to that, "Did not the invisible God, who is not in bodily form, manifest His His character when He delivered the Israelites from Egypt?" No one seen God, but they seen His actions. God was not in a body, but still manifested His character!
God can also talk, and that's how you get to know someone. Are you saying then, that if there were two bodiless Gods dwelling in heaven, they could not know each other's character? God is also without a body and eyes like man, does that mean God cannot see?
We are talking about God's spoken word that came out of His mouth. What would come out of God's mouth, which is so powerful that it created all that you see? Are you saying God's spoken word/spirit/breath that came out of His mouth, which created all things, and is still working, does not carry God's will, wisdom, character? Isa 11:2 "And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;"
101G
Well-known member
101G explained and again explain 101G will. listen closely, not two seperate persons, but one person shared. and is the scripture that shows this clear as day. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
two words 101G has highlighted for all to understand.
Form: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
the NATURE of God is Spirit, (per John 4:24a). notice, the definition above, this Nature is the base or the Root of G3313. and this root word is,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something). Both "Portion, and Allotted are synonyms with "SHARE". here is the correct answer to God's plurality. he, God, is the EQUAL "SHARE" of, of, of, HIMSELF manifested in flesh. and as the EQUAL "SHARE" of himself is bored out in the scriptures. supportive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." God's "OWN ARM" is he himself. because "portion" is synonyms with "SHARE". so, God shared himself in Flesh .... "THAT WAS TO COME". notice to come is future tense, and 101G have supportive scripture for this. A. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." B. 1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:6 "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." C. Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"
now, in time to come, this explains the "WITH" in Philippians 2:6. here is the explanation as to HOW the SON was "WITH" God, just as the Word was "WITH" God in John 1:1. 101G will not give his explanation, but bible. scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." seems like two separate persons? well let the scriptures tell us. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, the term "ALSO" means, in addition; too. hello, in addition to being the "FIRST" he is ..... "ALSO" .... the Last, the same one person just as Isaiah 63:5 clearly states.
now, if you have any other questions just ask
101G.
7xLightray
Member
That's great you got your doctrine to work up to a certain point. Do you see that all these passages work with my doctrine as well, and even your definitions! But, this is the thing, your doctrine may fit some scripture, but it does not fit all! Like Jn 17:3, or Gen 1:26-27; 2:22. And that is true of other Christian religions false Gods and Christs; you must know this yourself, their doctrine can fit much of scripture, but not all!
Think on this, I do not know of any verse that contradicts my doctrine, and no one else has been able to show error in it either. And I know of verses that do contradict your doctrine, so much so, that I know it is impossible for your doctrine to be able to overcome them. Yet you still are trying to convince me of your doctrine with verses that work with your doctrine, when you are ignoring the weightier ones that show your doctrine to be in error (like Jn 17:3). So, unless you love debating for the love of debating, how are you going to convince me of your doctrine, when no error has been found in my doctrine, but I know of major flaws in yours? It's like our doctrines are puzzles, and you are trying to convince me that your puzzle with missing pieces is better than my puzzle that has no missing pieces. Do you see what I am saying? And, are you able to see it from my side? Maybe, you may want to change your strategy, unless you love debating. You can't overcome truth! That's why the Pharisees had to resort to falsely accusing Him.
This is how one knows they do not have the right doctrine, if it does not fit every verse. You must know it is impossible for any person to be both the person that sent themselves, and did not send themselves.
Jesus is the Only begotten Son, not of Mary, but of God! And what I mean by "not of Mary" is that if Jesus the person put on earthly flesh from Mary, then Jesus is not the son of God, for He would be God with human flesh as a coat, which does not make one human! But if Jesus is from that which God took a share of Himself and made a son, then Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God, indeed. And as Jn 5:18 points out, that makes Jesus equal to God. As sheep are equal to sheep, from which they are made!
And Eve is a share of Adam. Eve is Adam, yet, she is not Adam! As to flesh she is Adam, as to person she is not Adam.
Right, His own arm, therefore mine own arm, but your arm is not your person. An arm is you, but not the you, you the person. An arm could be cut off, and you will still be you. Arm is the flesh part.
An image is you, but not you.
This is God's image Gen 1:26-27!
Yes, the Father is the Son, for that is the Father's share of His spirit that became flesh, but Jesus is another person, that is clearly pointed out in Jn 17:3, and impossible to get out of!
The Father's arm is the Father, but not the Father person Himself! And with His arm/power, God prepared a body for His son. So, that is the Father, as I am made of my parents, whatever I am I got from them. I am my parents, with all their genes and traits, but I am my own person.
If you try reading the Bible with the understanding Jesus is God's literal son, it all works out, in every minutia detail.
101G
Well-known member
well let's see. John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
see that conjunction "and", do it indicate two separate and distinct Persons? well let the bible tell us if so. James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
God and the Father? is this two separate and distinct persons? 101G will let you answer that. think long and Hard... ok.
now, Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
again let the Bible answer and see if this is two or more persons or not. the verse said, "And God said". so, is God more than one person? let the bible answer, again. this is God speaking, the Lord Jesus, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," so. do you believe the Lord Jesus? again 101G let you answer that. for God said he is ONE PERSON. so how do that answer the US and the OUR in verse 26? again let the bible answer. the US and the OUR is to come, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." again, this is the ECHAD of God, the Ordinal Last to come in Flesh. supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" the term ONE here is the Hebrew word,
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
notice definition #2. 101G is using the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments. it states the ORDINAL FIRST, the Spirit of Genesis 2:22 is the same example that God was to come LATER, as the woman was manifested Later, so was the Christ/God in flesh Manifested Later in TIME. so in the beginning God the Equal share of himself was of, of, of, himself, Just as the term God in Genesis 1:1 clearly states.
God:
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
Compare: H5945, H7706, H8199, H4397
see it now ........ [plural of H433] as the woman is the plural of, of, of, of, the man, which was brought forth later, as Christ was brought forth later, in these LAST DAYS.
Oh this is Just too easy. again, if you need any help in understanding God ECHAD of himself, just ask.
101G.
7xLightray
Member
Actually, I was referring to this, recall..
"John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
1. Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
2. Jesus cannot be the only true God that sent, because Jesus said he did not send himself! John 7:28-29; 8:42.
3. Jesus said this is what eternal life looks like for all of eternity, knowing only two, the Father and the Son, just the two persons!
Yes, only one person made them in the beginning, this we already agree on.
Yes, Eve came later, and Christ came later, but Eve is a separate persons than Adam, and Christ is a separate person than the only true God person.
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
come on 7.... STOP and THINK. if the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" one who have "IMMORTALITY", then he is the TRUE God, for the term "ONLY" means and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively. do you know what this definition just said? A. the Lord Jesus is the ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, TRUE GOD. read the definition of "ONLY" again. B. if the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" one with IMMORTALITY, which means, the ability to live forever; eternal life: then anyone else do not LIVE for ever. hello.
a 1st. Grader can comprehend this. ONLY, IMMORTALITY, my God how hard is it?
yes, Eve came Later, is she not bone of His bone, and flesh of his flesh? is SHE NOT ADAM ALSO? listen, LEARN, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." WHAT IS HERE NAME? "ADAM".
she is a ADAM also, because she is the same only not in Gende. as the Lord Jesus is only in NATURAL Flesh, but the Spirit is without NATURAL FLESH, only, only, only, in the resurrection is the Father in GLORIFIED FLESH.
My God this is too easy not to understand. 101G suggest you put behind you your forme teaching, and HEAR GOD.
101G.
P.S. 101G suggest you read this Post again.
#1. Jesus is the Father as well as the Son. he is the ECHAD of Himself. is not the Lord Jesus the TRUTH. is he not God? then he is the TRUE GOD, and he is the ONLY God... again, listen, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
come on 7.... STOP and THINK. if the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" one who have "IMMORTALITY", then he is the TRUE God, for the term "ONLY" means and no one or nothing more besides; solely or exclusively. do you know what this definition just said? A. the Lord Jesus is the ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, TRUE GOD. read the definition of "ONLY" again. B. if the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" one with IMMORTALITY, which means, the ability to live forever; eternal life: then anyone else do not LIVE for ever. hello.
a 1st. Grader can comprehend this. ONLY, IMMORTALITY, my God how hard is it?
see above
see above.
How can you agree on only ONE person in, "THE BEGINNING", who is God that made all things, and yet in the end come up two or more Persons?
yes, Eve came Later, is she not bone of His bone, and flesh of his flesh? is SHE NOT ADAM ALSO? listen, LEARN, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." WHAT IS HERE NAME? "ADAM".
she is a ADAM also, because she is the same only not in Gende. as the Lord Jesus is only in NATURAL Flesh, but the Spirit is without NATURAL FLESH, only, only, only, in the resurrection is the Father in GLORIFIED FLESH.
My God this is too easy not to understand. 101G suggest you put behind you your forme teaching, and HEAR GOD.
101G.
P.S. 101G suggest you read this Post again.
7xLightray
Member
All of your post#151 still does not answer Jn 17:3 of cant be the same person that sent and did not send, because it is the same person. It does not matter first, last, because it's still the same person! We've been through this many many times, you cant be the only true God person that sent, if you did not do the sending. That is some straightforward stuff right there! And that you cannot overcome, no matter how many verses you throw at me, or how many times you refuse to admit it.
You argue as if I said Jesus is not the Father, yet, the reality is we both agree Jesus is the Father.
So, the question is, how is Jesus the Father?
This question has a true answer: How are you your parents?
This question also has a true answer: How are you not your parents?
There are two possible ways Jesus could be the Father. You say because Jesus is the Father person Himself. I say, because He is the Father's only literal son. And Jn 17:3 settles that dispute. Jesus cannot be the only true God, the Father person, who sent, because the Jesus' person did not send! Are you debating reality, truth?
Also, you saying Jesus is the Father Person, if Jesus is the only true God the Father Person (I am referring to "who," the person of God, not the "what," the spirit of God), then why did not Jesus come in His own name?
Jn 5:43 I have come in my Father's name [Jesus coming in someone else's name], and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name [showing Jesus did not come in His own name. But yet notice: you, by your doctrine, are saying Jesus came in His own name! Showing how you greatly error], you will receive him.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Notice the Pronoun "he" refers to one person, and the Pronoun "me" refers to another person in language; so, Jesus did not come of His own, but God sent him. Stating again, Jesus is not the God Person that sent him. He is not the Father Person, though He is the spirit of God, which is the word that comes out of God's mouth and became flesh.
All scripture must work together!
1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality [What category is being compared? God, heavenly beings, humans? Must be other humans Lk 20:36 and here speaking of G444 man..], dwelling in the light which no man [G444] can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see [but who's light? Must be the Father's Acts 22:6, 8, 9, 11; 26:13-15]: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Angels are immortal, humans will be immortal.
Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Also, Paul, and the men he was traveling with, seen Jesus' great light, which your doctrine would have me believe, no one can approach, and no one has seen, or can see.
Act 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
Act 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
Act 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Act 22:11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
Act 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
It also says,
1 Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of [G1537 out of, out from] whom are all things [out of God came forth His (spoken Psalm 33:6) word (which word would become flesh "Man" (Isa 55; Jn 6), and become the person who grew in wisdom) through which He (the Father) created all things], and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by [G1223 A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through] whom are all things [through God's (spoken Psalm 33:6) word, which became flesh, His son Jesus Christ. who is another person who grew in wisdom. Over and over it shows Jesus is another person], and we by him.
And, Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Why is there one Lord? Jn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
..with..
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD [the Father] said unto my Lord [Jesus Christ], Sit thou on my right hand, [where? on the throne of God, but there is a "Therefore"]
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
In context, what does it mean when Acts 2:36 talks about Jesus being made Lord by God? it is referring to sitting on God's throne (it would be good to let that sink in for a bit) until all of Christ enemies God puts under Christ's feet. This is why it says God made Jesus Lord, and it has to do with sitting on God's throne (as Joseph was raised to the throne and all had to listen to Joseph, making Joseph Lord over all).
7xLightray
Member
It's called having a son! Are you being serious about this question -> "How can you agree on only ONE person in, "THE BEGINNING", who is God that made all things, and yet in the end come up two or more Persons?" <- How many times am I going to have to answer this question? I can't believe you are still asking this question! Jesus was the word which was God which became "Man!" Jesus is Man! But made out of the holy spirit.
Mat 1:18 "..she was found with child of (G1537 out of, out from) the Holy (G40) Ghost. (G4151) Mat_1:20 "..take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from [G1537 out of, out from] the Holy Spirit.
I have repeated this in many different ways, and with many different words. Are you not able to understand the concept of a literal father and son?!
Jesus is God the Father's only literal son! That is how you(s) get one person at the beginning, and two persons after conception, or after birth. Straightforward!
Ya, she is called Adam, but they are still two persons, and one made from the others rib! So, there was one person in the beginning, then a second person, the second being an image of the first, which came later. I do not understand why this is so hard to understand?! Eve existed in Adam, then as the rib, then as a personal being, When Eve existed in Adam she was not another person. When Eve existed as the rib, she was not another person. When God turned that rib into a female, then she was a person. Are you saying you do not understand this? Cause, this goes the same with God's spoken word!
101G
Well-known member
did you not read? he is the ECHAD of himself, the equal share of himself, just as Phil. 2:6 clearly states. 101G just answered John 17:3 again, are you listing? and 101G answered John 17:3 again via James 1:27 LISTEN "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
God and the Father? is this two persons ....... no different from John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
the only true God, and Jesus Christ vs God and the Father .... the same one person.
ONE MORE TIME. He is ECHAD of himself, the EQUAL SHARE of himselfr, manifested in flesh just as Isaiah 53 clearly states...... can you understand that?
once more he is the ECHAD of HIMSELF in "TIME", "PLACE", ORDER", and "RANK". ..... in "TIME" as Spirit/Father, who CREATED ALL THING in the beginning. and spirit/Son, who REDEEM ALL THING that he MADE.... in the END. this is the ECHAD of First/Father in the beginning, and in "TIME", the Last/Son in the End, the LAST.
this is just too easy not to understand, and it answers the rest of your post. this is why he, in the beginning made man, who was the "US", and the "OUR" to come. man this is too easy.
101G.
101G.
101G.
7xLightray
Member
First: Of course one can say God "and" the Father, because they are two different titles referring to the same person.
Second: I was not referring to the word "and." I was referring to the concept of one "person" sending and not sending.
So, for example explain to me how you sent yourself (meaning: you went of your own self, no one else sent you) to the store on Wed. dec. 4, 2015, at 3:19:37 pm, and yet did not send your self (meaning: someone sent you) on Wed. dec. 4, 2015 at 3:19:37 pm.
I got the ECHAD part, just looking for the explanation of how that works with one person sending and not sending. Explain so a child could understand, because you simply saying there was this first person, and that there is this other sort of, kind of, other person, who is not another person, but the same person, that was last, is not cutting it. And some how I am expected to understand how this solves this one person sending and not sending?! I do not know how? Can you maybe ask someone else to explain it to me?
No I do not understand! You saying there is one person in the beginning and the same person at the end does not explain sending and not sending.
So are they two person? You will say, "No!" And that is the problem! Cause you still have one person. And it is a Person that sends, not a Mask!
101G
Well-known member
that's an excuse and here's why. Listen, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." see that conjunction "AND" now this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." I ALSO? same one person, just as in John 1:1 the Word with "GOD?"... and was GOD? yes, the same one person in the ECHAD. too simple.
now if you reply, reply in scripture please.
101G.
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101G
Well-known member
This is what the bible is saying, The "FIRST" is the Title of God as Father... "LORD", all caps. The "LAST" is the title of God as "Son" ... "Lord" only the L is chaptalized. scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." .... WITH ..... Now the answer, if it's one and only one person or is it two persons. let's see what the bible say. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." .... ALSO? there is the answer. the Father is the Son as the H259ECHAD/the G243 ALLOS, or as Philippians 2:6 clearly states, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" so when John 17:3 says, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." the SAME ONE PERSON in the H259 ECHAD/G243 ALLOS.
too easy not to understand.
101G.
too easy not to understand.
101G.
7xLightray
Member
It is not an excuse. "John is both King and the father." Two titles, and that is exactly what it means there in James 1:27, two titles for one person. You brought up the "and," and tried saying I brought it up, when I actually brought up the "second:" part.
But, I guess you missed the second part were I said..
"Second: I was not referring to the word "and." I am referring to the concept of one "person" sending and not sending.
So, for example explain to me how you sent yourself (meaning: you went of your own self, no one else sent you) to the store on Wed. dec. 4, 2015, at 3:19:37 pm, and yet did not send your self (meaning: some sent you) on Wed. dec. 4, 2015 at 3:19:37 pm."
What?! Why would I reply with scripture when I am asking you to explain this?!
So, can you explain it?
101G
Well-known member
101G just showed you the truth, and you refused to consider it. yes, King and the father are " Two titles, and yes not two persons. the same with Father and Son, two titles, same one. the Answer to God's titles in in himself .... being the ECHAD of himself.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
to all,
let's get at the root of the problem. it's not the scriptures that are in ERROR, or hard to understand, no, it's us who are in ERROR. we refuse to believe the TRUTH, nor even allow ourselves to EVEN CONSIDER the TRUTH.
example, take this topic, "Isaiah and the trinity". when Isaiah gave us information about the Godhead.... do we just bury our head in the sand because we believe, (NOT THINK), but believe that we're already taught right. what if we all were taught in ERROR, without malice. and we later find that what we were taught was not lining up with scripture that we have not encountered before. should we just IGNORE the scriptures, or do we righteously examine these scriptures and find out what they are not lining up with what we believe? as with civil law, IGNORANCE is no excuse.
so, what should we do, stay IGNORANT of these scriptures? no, we find out why they contradict our beliefs ...... and finding out WHY by the scriptures is so IMPORTANT. no one should be a` shame of the scriptures, for they are the power unto salvation.
101G.
let's get at the root of the problem. it's not the scriptures that are in ERROR, or hard to understand, no, it's us who are in ERROR. we refuse to believe the TRUTH, nor even allow ourselves to EVEN CONSIDER the TRUTH.
example, take this topic, "Isaiah and the trinity". when Isaiah gave us information about the Godhead.... do we just bury our head in the sand because we believe, (NOT THINK), but believe that we're already taught right. what if we all were taught in ERROR, without malice. and we later find that what we were taught was not lining up with scripture that we have not encountered before. should we just IGNORE the scriptures, or do we righteously examine these scriptures and find out what they are not lining up with what we believe? as with civil law, IGNORANCE is no excuse.
so, what should we do, stay IGNORANT of these scriptures? no, we find out why they contradict our beliefs ...... and finding out WHY by the scriptures is so IMPORTANT. no one should be a` shame of the scriptures, for they are the power unto salvation.
101G.
