Is there a sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism?

[Runningman]

Trinitarians subscribe to the following:

God is immortal and cannot die (1 Tim 6:16),
Jesus did die (Rom 5:8, Mark 15:37),
Jesus did possess a real human body (Phil 2:7, Heb 2:14),
And Jesus is called God (John 1:1, Heb 1:8),

If God cannot die, and Jesus is God in the flesh, then when Jesus died, was it actually God who died, or merely Jesus' physical body?

My conclusion is that the sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism is inert human flesh, not a sinless human soul or God's sinless soul. Accordingly, there is no real sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism nor any salvation.

 

[360watt]

Trinitarians subscribe to the following:

God is immortal and cannot die (1 Tim 6:16),
Jesus did die (Rom 5:8, Mark 15:37),
Jesus did possess a real human body (Phil 2:7, Heb 2:14),
And Jesus is called God (John 1:1, Heb 1:8),

If God cannot die, and Jesus is God in the flesh, then when Jesus died, was it actually God who died, or merely Jesus' physical body?

My conclusion is that the sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism is inert human flesh, not a sinless human soul or God's sinless soul. Accordingly, there is no real sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism nor any salvation.

Jesus never died in Spirit. He was and always has been God. God the Son.

He died in the flesh..but descended to the lower parts of the earth and raised up those waiting for release. Then He resurrected.

The logic you are using isn't relating to scripture fully, but conceptual logic. Its not reading context.

Like in scripture.. when a statement is made such as Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The opposite of this statement is not necessarily true.. ie.. don't be baptized and you won't be saved.

Why? Because the full weight of scripture doesn't support baptism as a pre requirement for salvation.

Unbelief in Jesus, not a lack of baptism, is the point of not being converted.

So... when you look at Jesus's sacrifice..go deeper..not just surface logic.

 

[Dizerner]

Accordingly, there is no real sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism nor any salvation.

I reject your interpretation of 1 Tim 6:16.

God CAN die, and he DID die.

Holding immortality here is the idea that you cannot stay dead, not that you cannot die at all.

As Acts tells us, Jesus was the Author of Life whom Death could not hold (not did not—COULD not).

Yes, God possesses immortality, but he can also momentarily set it aside.

 

[DavidTree]

Trinitarians subscribe to the following:

God is immortal and cannot die (1 Tim 6:16),
Jesus did die (Rom 5:8, Mark 15:37),
Jesus did possess a real human body (Phil 2:7, Heb 2:14),
And Jesus is called God (John 1:1, Heb 1:8),

If God cannot die, and Jesus is God in the flesh, then when Jesus died, was it actually God who died, or merely Jesus' physical body?

My conclusion is that the sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism is inert human flesh, not a sinless human soul or God's sinless soul. Accordingly, there is no real sin sacrifice in Trinitarianism nor any salvation.

Hebrews 10:5 is what died on the Cross

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

God cannot die

 

[DavidTree]

I reject your interpretation of 1 Tim 6:16.

God CAN die, and he DID die.

Holding immortality here is the idea that you cannot stay dead, not that you cannot die at all.

As Acts tells us, Jesus was the Author of Life whom Death could not hold (not did not—COULD not).

Yes, God possesses immortality, but he can also momentarily set it aside.

God cannot die.

Death has three stages for un-Redeemed mankind
a.) spiritual death thru sin = Genesis chapters 2 & 3
b.) physical death = the Grave
c.) Eternal Death = the Second Death = Lake of Fire

We are born spiritually dead = Gospel , John 3:1-10 , Ephesians 2:1-3

God only tasted death in "the Body that was prepared for the LORD to dwell in" = Hebrews 10:5 & Hebrews 2:9

 

[Dizerner]

God cannot die.

Scripture says he can.

Jesus is God—Jesus said, "I was dead."

I do not rebuke nor argue with the Word of God.

God died.

For me!

Death has three stages for un-Redeemed mankind a.) spiritual death thru sin = Genesis chapters 2 & 3 b.) physical death = the Grave
c.) Eternal Death = the Second Death = Lake of Fire We are born spiritually dead = Gospel , John 3:1-10 , Ephesians 2:1-3

It's all death, just different manifestations of it.

God only tasted death in "the Body that was prepared for the LORD to dwell in" = Hebrews 10:5 & Hebrews 2:

Jesus is a PERSON. He is a PERSON.

He is not just a "body," nor just a "human nature," nor just the remote avatar of the Son.

Jesus is a PERSON.

Whom the Bible says DIED.

 

[Fred]

Trinitarians subscribe to the following:

God is immortal and cannot die (1 Tim 6:16),

The JW's (non-Trinitarians) affirm 1 Timothy 6:16 is in reference to Jesus.

 

[DavidTree]

Scripture says he can.

Jesus is God—Jesus said, "I was dead."

I do not rebuke nor argue with the Word of God.

God died.

For me!



It's all death, just different manifestations of it.



Jesus is a PERSON. He is a PERSON.

He is not just a "body," nor just a "human nature," nor just the remote avatar of the Son.

Jesus is a PERSON.

Whom the Bible says DIED.

I BELIEVE Jesus also = Revelation 1:17-18
"“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.

Do not make the same error as the jw's in that they do not separate the Word that was God from the flesh/son of man.
Hebrews 10:5 = "a body/flesh YOU have prepared for ME" = separate from the Word that was God(Spirit)
God cannot die but the son of man named JESUS the CHRIST died on the Cross for our sins = Gospel
Here is the evidence that you need to SEE = Luke 23:44-47 and Hebrews 10:5 and Philipians 2:5-8

Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two.
And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ”
Having said this, He breathed His last.

So when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God, saying, “Certainly this was a righteous Man!”

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men/flesh.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death,
even the death of the cross.

Shalom in the Name above all names = Lord Jesus Christ

 

[DavidTree]

Hello

 

[DavidTree]

Jesus is a PERSON. He is a PERSON.

He is not just a "body," nor just a "human nature," nor just the remote avatar of the Son.

Jesus is a PERSON.

Whom the Bible says DIED.

My bad, i missed this which you said: "Jesus is a PERSON. He is a PERSON."

the WORD that was GOD is the PERSON that became flesh and dwelt among us = the only Begotten of the FATHER

The WORD became flesh and dwelt among us "IMMANUEL" = GOD with us

Can you understand that before GOD came to earth HE existed as a PERSON in Heaven with the FATHER???

jw teaching says "No" - How about you my Brother in Christ

 

[DavidTree]

@Dizerner,
Brother in Christ @Fred knows my posts and he knows i do not deny who the Lord Jesus Christ is.

But i want you to SEE further exactly Who as the Scripture declares.

 

[Dizerner]

Can you understand that before GOD came to earth HE existed as a PERSON in Heaven with the FATHER???

He existed as THREE Persons, ONE of whom was Jesus.

 

[Dizerner]

God cannot die

God CAN die.

He has the power of life AND death.

All things are possible for God.

 

[DavidTree]

He existed as THREE Persons, ONE of whom was Jesus.

Please explain these THREE persons - thank you

 

[DavidTree]

God CAN die.

He has the power of life AND death.

All things are possible for God.

God died when became a man, Jesus the Christ, and tasted death for everyone by going to the Cross.

Yes or No

 

[Dizerner]

Please explain these THREE persons - thank you

The FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST!

God died when became a man, Jesus the Christ, and tasted death for every by going to the Cross.

Yes or No

Yes!!!!

 

[DavidTree]

The FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST!



Yes!!!!

i fully believe in the FATHER , the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT = Amen

This is the Foundation of Truth beginning in Genesis chapter 1
This Foundation is expressed by the Apostle John in his Gospel = beginning in chapter 1

 

[DavidTree]

Well now @Dizerner @Fred @DavidTree are in Fellowship in the Lord Jesus Christ

@Dizerner, you know this so it is just a reminder and fills in any gaps.

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse.
And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns.
He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His Name is called The Word of God.
And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.
And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.
He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation chapter 1 begins with the Glorification of the Lord Jesus Christ as well as His Eternal existence as the Alpha and the Omega.
Then Revelation chapter 19 brings us back to His Original Name = the Word of God

 

[mikesw]

Well now @Dizerner @Fred @DavidTree are in Fellowship in the Lord Jesus Christ

@Dizerner, you know this so it is just a reminder and fills in any gaps.

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse.
And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns.
He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His Name is called The Word of God.
And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.
And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.
He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation chapter 1 begins with the Glorification of the Lord Jesus Christ as well as His Eternal existence as the Alpha and the Omega.
Then Revelation chapter 19 brings us back to His Original Name = the Word of God

I do not think I heard the unitarians explain away Jesus being identified as the Word of God in Revelation. That is a great find in an unexpected place in scripture.

 

[360watt]

I find the way unitarian view scripture to similar to biblical criticism views.

They will look at scripture on a surface level and subjectively.

So looking at the names of God in the OT...in the likes of Genesis, will make it out to be different authors writing in one book, rather than one author writing a book about God's different roles and ways of interacting with man. Eg.. Eloheim vs Yeshua vs Meshiach vs Emmanuel.

Also, rather than saying 'God spoke this to Abraham', they will say 'the community of Hebrews at such and such a place believed God spoke to Abraham '

It's too far removed.