All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Peterlag]

Care to justify prayer to any other?

Yes you can pray to God or Jesus Christ who is the son and second in commend.

 

[Peterlag]

Is God the only proper recipient of latreuō (Matthew 4:10)?

Matthew 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[Peterlag]

It's as easy as A B C

1. Jesus has two natures — He is God and man.
2. Each nature is full and complete — He is fully God and fully man.
3. Each nature remains distinct.

Jesus... fully God, Fully Man... The God Man

For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from the [latter] time forth, even forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Isaiah 9:6–7

A. The first truth we need to understand is that Jesus is one Person who has two natures: a divine nature and a human nature. In other words, Jesus is both God and man.



B. It should be obvious that if Jesus is God, then he has always been God. There was never a time when he became God, for God is eternal. But Jesus has not always been man. The fantastic miracle is that this eternal God became man through the incarnation approximately 2,000 years ago. That’s what the Incarnation was: God the Son becoming man. And that is the great event we celebrate at Christmas.



C. For most people it is obvious that Jesus will be God forever. But for some reason it escapes a lot of us that Jesus will also be man forever.

The supposed “dual nature” of Christ is never stated in the Bible and contradicts the Bible and the laws of nature that God set up. Nothing can be 100% of two different things. Jesus cannot be 100% God and 100%man, and that is not a “mystery” but it's a contradiction and a talk of nonsense. A fatal flaw in the “dual nature” theory is that both natures in Jesus would have had to have known about each other. The Jesus God nature would have known about his human nature, and (according to what the Trinitarians teach) his human nature knew he was God, which explains why Trinitarians say Jesus taught that he was God. The book of Hebrews is wrong when it says Jesus was “made like his brothers in every respect” if Jesus knew he was God (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus was not made like other humans in every way if Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time. In fact, he would have been very different from other humans in many respects.

For example, in his God nature he would not have been tempted by anything (James 1:13), and his human part would not have been tempted either since his human nature had access to that same knowledge and assurance. It is written he was tempted in every way like we all are (Hebrews 4:15). Furthermore, God does not have the problems, uncertainty, and anxieties that humans do, and Jesus would not have had those either if he knew he was God. Also, Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in wisdom, but his human part would have had access to his God part, which would have given him infinite and inherent wisdom. Hebrews says Jesus “learned obedience” by the things that he suffered, but again, the human part of Jesus would have accessed the God part of him and he would not have needed to learn anything.

Kenotic Trinitarians claim that Jesus put off or limited His God nature, but that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth. The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture, and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason. The very simple way to explain the “difficult verses” that Kenotic Trinitarians are trying to explain about Christ’s human experiences is to realize that Jesus was a fully human being, and not both God and man at the same time. Some assert we have to take the Trinity “by faith” but that is not biblical either.

 

[Dizerner]

that theology only developed to try to reconcile some of the verses about what Christ experienced on the earth.

Bald assertion, begging the question. Also please distinguish between Full and Semi-Kenosis as they are not the same teaching.

The idea that God can limit what He knows or experiences as God is not taught or explained in Scripture

The Word became flesh, being in the form of God he became in the form of a servant, being rich he was made poor.

and Kenotic Trinitarianism has been rejected by orthodox Trinitarians for exactly that reason.

Lol, those orthodox that you think literally get everything about God wrong, you now quote as an authority when it suits you? Terrific.

Nothing can be 100% of two different things.

You have not established that, and you are not an authority. Sorry.

 

[Peterlag]

Bald assertion, begging the question. Also please distinguish between Full and Semi-Kenosis as they are not the same teaching.



The Word became flesh, being in the form of God he became in the form of a servant, being rich he was made poor.



Lol, those orthodox that you think literally get everything about God wrong, you now quote as an authority when it suits you? Terrific.



You have not established that, and you are not an authority. Sorry.

What I am an authority on is that there is no trinity. There's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

All you folks ever put in front of me are bits and pieces of words and half verses that are scattered all over the Bible. Also there's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. Such a concept accomplishes nothing. Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.

 

[TomL]

Yes you can pray to God or Jesus Christ who is the son and second in commend.

Oh unlike many others who deny the deity of Christ you do affirm prayer can be made to Christ.