Is the Gospel Coalition Apostolic or does it adhere to Augustine's shipload of heresies?
Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
Since Jesus did not exhibit actions deserving of external condemnation then there was no wrath directed to him from God the Father.
Therefore, propitiation is a pagan myth. Look to Expiation for the truth.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
That statement is completely contrary to Scripture.
Jesus was made into sin when He was on the cross. He was made as if He had sinned. He took on the punishment He did not deserve in order that we could receive the benefit that He did deserve. He paid the debt we could not pay, so that we could receive the benefit we could not earn. (2 Cor 5:21, Rom 3:25-26, Gal 3:13).
civic
Well-known member
see this thread where I go into the doctrine of PSA
You said so yourself that "he did not deserve".
Since "wrath [is] towards persons whose actions deserve eternal condemnation" then there is no wrath towards Christ.
Even a child can understand that.
No to Propitiation. Yes to Expiation.
Learn the difference between Expiation and Propitiation.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
No, He did not deserve the wrath of God, but He took it on willingly so that He could pass on His righteousness to us. What was Jesus praying for in the Garden? "And He was saying, “Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”" Mark 14:36 He was praying that there be some other way than that the wrath of God be poured out on Him. But Jesus took on our sin, and with it He took on the punishment, the wrath, that God pours out on those who sin. And because He took on that sin. and the punishment for it, both expiation and propitiation were accomplished. The wrath of God for your (and my, and every other believer's) sin must go somewhere, because God is JUST. If He were not Just, then He could simply declare us righteous without the sacrifice of Jesus. But because He is Just, He must deliver His wrath against our sin somewhere, if not to us, then it must go to Christ who took on our sin.
You need to prove that cup = God's wrath before you go off on all tangents. Please produce the verse that declares that. I thank you in advance.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
Because He, According To The Truth Of Scriptures, Is Repeatedly 'Called':
"The Son of man"?:
Mat_8:20 "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air
have nests; but The Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Mat_9:6 But that ye may know that The Son of man hath power on earth to forgive
sins, (then saith He to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine
house.
Mat_10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say
unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till The Son of man be come.
Mat_11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man
gluttonous, and a winebibber, A Friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified
of her children.
Mat_12:8 For The Son of man Is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mat_12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against The Son of man, it shall be
forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be
forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mat_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall
The Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat_13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is
The Son of man;
Mat_13:41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of
His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat_16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples,
saying, Whom do men say that I The Son of man am?
Mat_16:27 For The Son of man shall come in The Glory of His Father with His angels;
and then He shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat_16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste
of death, till they see The Son of man coming in His kingdom.
Mat_17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying,
Tell the vision to no man, until The Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mat_17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have
done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also The Son of man suffer of them.
Mat_17:22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall
be betrayed into the hands of men:
Mat_18:11 For The Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed
Me, in the regeneration when The Son of man shall sit in the throne of His Glory, ye also
shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Mat_20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and The Son of man shall be betrayed unto
the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death,
Mat_20:28 Even as The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister,
and to give His Life A Ransom for many.
Mat_24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west;
so shall also the coming of The Son of man be.
Mat_24:30 And then shall appear the sign of The Son of man in heaven: and then shall
all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see The Son of man coming in the clouds
of heaven with Power and Great Glory.
Mat_24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of The Son of man be.
Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the
coming of The Son of man be.
Mat_24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not The Son of man cometh.
Mat_25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein
The Son of man cometh.
Mat_25:31 When The Son of man shall come in His Glory, and all the holy
angels with Him, then shall He sit upon The Throne Of His Glory:
Mat_26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and
The Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Mat_26:24 The Son of man Goeth As It Is Written of Him: but woe unto that man by
whom The Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been
born.
Mat_26:45 Then cometh He to His disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and
take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and The Son of man is betrayed into the
hands of sinners.
Mat_26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter
shall ye see The Son of man sitting on The Right Hand of Power, and coming in the
clouds of heaven.
Mar_2:10 But that ye may know that The Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins,
(He saith to the sick of the palsy,)
Mar_2:28 Therefore The Son of man Is Lord also of the sabbath.
Mar_8:31 And He began to teach them, that The Son of man must suffer many things,
and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after
three days rise again.
Mar_8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of Me and of My Words in this
adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall The Son of man be ashamed,
when He cometh in The Glory of His Father with the holy angels.
Mar_9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, He charged them that they
should tell no man what things they had seen, till The Son of man were risen from
the dead.
Mar_9:12 And He answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth
all things; and How It Is Written Of The Son of man, That He must suffer many things,
and be set at nought. [ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ In The OT ↑ ? ]
Mar_9:31 For He taught His disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered
into the hands of men, and they shall kill Him; and after that He is killed, He shall rise
the third day.
Mar_10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and The Son of man shall be delivered
unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall
deliver Him to the Gentiles:
Mar_10:45 For even The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and
to give His Life A Ransom for many.
Mar_13:26 And then shall they see The Son of man coming in the clouds with Great
Power and Glory.
Mar_13:34 For The Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house,
and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the
porter to watch.
Mar_14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as It Is Written of Him: but
woe to that man by whom The Son of man is betrayed! good were it
for that man if he had never been born.
Mar_14:41 And He cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take
your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, The Son of man is betrayed into the
hands of sinners.
Mar_14:62 And Jesus said, I AM: and ye shall see The Son of man sitting on The Right
Hand of Power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Luk_5:24 But that ye may know that The Son of man Hath Power upon earth to forgive
sins, (He said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch,
and go into thine house.
Luk_6:5 And He said unto them, That The Son of man Is Lord also of the sabbath.
Luk_6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate
you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for
The Son of man's Sake.
Luk_7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a
gluttonous man, and a winebibber, A Friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk_9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of
the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
Luk_9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of Me and of My Words, of him shall
The Son of man be ashamed, when He shall come in His Own Glory, and in His
Father's, and of the holy angels.
Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for The Son of man
shall be delivered into the hands of men. (Luke 9:44)
Luk_9:56 For The Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And
they went to another village.
Luk_9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but
The Son of man hath not where to lay His Head.
Luk_11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also The Son of man be to
this generation.
Luk_12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess Me before men, him shall
The Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
Luk_12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against The Son of man, it shall
be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall
not be forgiven.
Luk_12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for The Son of man cometh at an hour
when ye think not.
Luk_17:22 And He said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see
one of the days of The Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luk_17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth
unto the other part under heaven; so shall also The Son of man be in His day.
Luk_17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of
The Son of man.
Luk_17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when The Son of man is revealed.
Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when
The Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?
Luk_18:31 Then He took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to
Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning The Son of man
shall be accomplished.
Luk_19:10 For The Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Luk_21:27 And then shall they see The Son of man coming in a cloud with Power and
Great Glory.
Luk_21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted
worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before
The Son of man.
Luk_22:22 And truly The Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto
that man by whom He is betrayed!
Luk_22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou The Son of man with a kiss?
Luk_22:69 Hereafter shall The Son of man sit on The Right Hand of The Power of God.
Luk_24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be
crucified, and the third day rise again.
Joh_1:51 And He saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven
open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon The Son of man.
Joh_3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down
from heaven, even The Son of man Which is in heaven.
Joh_3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must
The Son of man be lifted up:
Joh_5:27 And Hath Given Him Authority To Execute Judgment also, because
He Is the Son of man.
Joh_6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto
everlasting life, which The Son of man shall give unto you: for Him Hath God The Father
Sealed.
Joh_6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of
The Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh_6:62 What and if ye shall see The Son of man ascend up where he was
before?
Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up The Son of man,
then shall ye know that I AM He, and that I do nothing of myself; but as My
Father hath taught Me, I speak these things.
Joh_12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that
The Son of man should be Glorified.
Joh_12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth
for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? Who is This
Son of man?
Joh_13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is The Son of man
Glorified, and God Is Glorified In Him.
Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and The Son of man standing
on The Right Hand of God.
Rev_1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto
The Son of man, clothed with a garment down to The Foot, and girt
about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev_14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud
One Sat like unto the Son of man, having on His Head a golden crown,
and in His Hand a sharp sickle."
Amen.
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Interesting, or amazing how the prophets of old saw Him, The Son of man, wrote about Him,
and believed Him, but modern men don't believe, eh? How, then Can they Be Saved???
How is it they wish not to be forgiven and Redeemed By The BLOOD Of Christ,
The Son of man, Who Paid The FULL Ransom Price, being delivered up for ALL,
and By Suffering and Dying On The Cross!???
Thus, we continue to pray for them to see:
God's Simple Will!
... ↓ ... ↓ ...... ↓ .......... ↓
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Doug Brents
Well-known member
Revelation 14:11, "Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."
Jesus was about to have the sins of all the world laid on Him. For this, He would be drinking the cup of the Father's anger, the wine of the wrath of God, in the place of all those who would come to be in Him (the Church).
Isaiah 51:17 says, “...O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of His fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.
So, when Jesus prayed saying, “Father if thou be willing, remove this cup from Me: nevertheless, not My will, but Thine be done”, (Luke 22:42), and again in Ezekiel 23:32-34, “Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the shreds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it saith the Lord God.” Both the Old and New Testament Scriptures, implication for Jesus’ prayer is that “God will remove the cup of His wrath.”
So, Jesus prays “that the cup of God’s wrath for sin,” which “He’ll drink at Calvary for all,” will in the same way “be removed from His hand by the Father” after He has drunk it. In the process Jesus sacrificially suffered both “in the physical realm,” and especially “in the spiritual realm” as he enters “the hell” of being “separated from His Father.”
civic
Well-known member
No that is not what Jesus prayed as you are reading that into scripture as I will prove below. The cup was suffering not wrath from God.
Jesus bearing God's “cup of wrath” and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is not found in Scripture.
In Matthew 26:39, Jesus says, "If it be your will, let this cup pass from me." Jesus tells us precisely what the cup was. It was the cup of his suffering, which meant that He would die an agonizing death as a martyr. In the passage below, Jesus told His disciples that they would also drink of the same "cup":
Matthew 20:17-
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, "Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom."22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered. 23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9-For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
As we see above it was not the cup of wrath Jesus was speaking about but it was the suffering He was going to have to endure for our sins. God has not appointed us to wrath and the cup means the suffering of Jesus and that the disciples would also suffer death as martyrs. In fact, many scriptures testify that believers too will suffer persecution for being a follower of Jesus. Suffering persecution is a promise for a believer who follows Jesus, it is something we should expect to happen in our life.
2 Timothy 3:12- Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
John 15:20
Remember the word that I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well.
Matthew 5:10 - Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
2 Corinthians 4:9- persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.
hope this helps !!!
First of all, there are multiple cups so they can't all be targeted towards Jesus' work on the Cross. That means that the cup has a much more generic significance: suffering, as mentioned by civic. It's either suffering by sinners for their sins or suffering by martyrs for others' sins.
Second of all, where exactly is it mentioned that the Father was wrathful towards the Son?
Third of all, how can the Trinity be internally wrathful one to another? Please explain that. Greek Pagan gods had wrath from one to another. Let's not fall into paganism.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Yes, the cup is suffering, but not physical suffering. Many suffered death on a cross before and after Jesus, but none had ever been one with the Father through their entire life and then been abandoned by Him because they suddenly had the sins of the world laid on Him while on the cross, until Jesus. It was Spiritual suffering that Jesus feared, much more than the physical suffering He would endure.
The Apostles would "drink from my cup", but they would not drink it to the dregs, as Jesus did. They would be persecuted and martyred, but they would not be abandoned by God, because their sins were laid on Jesus who was abandoned by the Father (for a short time while He was on the cross).
We do not receive wrath, because the wrath of God has been satisfied by Christ. He received the wrath so that we would not need to. We are persecuted but not forsaken, because Jesus was forsaken for our sake.
"But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in God’s merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished; 26 for the demonstration, that is, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Rom 3:21-26
God showed He was just. His sacrifice of His Son for our sin made it possible for Him to offer to us eternal life without leaving human sinfulness unpunished. In addition to His love, God demonstrated His justice, His righteousness. More than that, God also wanted to be the "justifier" of those who have faith in Jesus. Only the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross accomplished both of these goals: to uphold the justness of God, and the merciful love of God.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
The Father was not wrathful toward the Son, but toward the sin that was laid on the Son.
God is not continually wrathful. Wrath is not a character trait of God, but a response by Him toward sin. He is not eternally wrathful as He is eternally loving, or merciful. Thus, He is only wrathful when He is confronted by sin; in this case, our sin laid on Christ. When that sin had been paid for with the sinless blood of Jesus, the wrath was expended.
Johann
Well-known member
The point that nobody gets-and you have nailed it. Hence-Asham offering.
civic
Well-known member
Does this sound like the Father and Son were angry with sin ? yes or no
Luke 23:34-43
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”
36 The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar 37 and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.”
38 There was a written notice above him, which read: this is the king of the jews.
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” @Johann
Matthew 5:44- But I tell you, love your enemies and bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Proverbs 19:11
A man's insight gives him patience, and his virtue is to overlook an offense.
Proverbs 25:21
If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
Romans 12:20 -On the contrary, "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink.
hope this helps !!!
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Johann
Well-known member
Yes
Implications for a Fallen World
All of this has very important implications as we seek to live and minister productively in this fallen world. If God is holy and angry at the same time, then anger is not evil in and of itself. If it were, God would never be angry. The many passages that teach us God is angry simply would not be in the Bible (see Exodus 32:10, 34:6; Deuteronomy 29:28; 2 Kings 22:13; Psalms 2:12, 30:5; Romans 1:18; and more). Therefore, it is not merely possible to be holy and angry at the same time, it is a calling. If you recognize and treasure the unchanging holiness of God and his call to be holy as he is holy, you will find it impossible to be in contact with anything that is in any way evil and not be angry.
This means if we are to take seriously the call to imitate our Father in heaven, calling ourselves and others to act and respond as he does within our human limitations, we must be angry. Not selfishly angry because we are not getting our own way, but worshipfully angry in the face of anything that is a violation of what God says is right, good, loving, and true.
The Anger of Grace
Let’s be very clear. God’s anger is the anger of grace. It is not the violent anger of unbridled and unrighteous fury. God’s anger always works to right what is wrong. That is what grace does. This gracious anger has two sides to it: justice and mercy. In the gracious anger of justice, God works to punish wrong, but he does even more. God is not satisfied merely with punishing wrong. His hunger for right is so strong that he will not relent until wrong has been completely destroyed. He will not rest until evil is no more and justice and righteousness reign forever and ever!
There is also another side to his gracious anger. It is the anger of mercy. In mercy he works to convict—-that is, to produce in us a sorrow for the wrongs that we think, say, and do. In mercy he works to forgive—-that is, to clear our moral debt. In mercy he works to empower—-that is, to give us everything we need to resist wrong and to do what is right. And in mercy he works to deliver. He will not be satisfied until every microbe of sin is completely eradicated from every cell of the heart of every one of his children.
Where do we see both sides of God’s anger coming together in one moment? On that hill outside the city gates where Jesus hung. That is where we see justice and mercy kiss. As he hung there, Jesus bore the full weight of the justice of God’s anger. He paid the penalty our sin required. And on the cross Jesus became the instrument of God’s merciful anger that every sinner needs. He purchased our forgiveness.
If God were incapable of anger, there would have been no cross. You see, preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ forces us to deal with God’s anger. It requires us to help those to whom we minister to think of God’s anger in a deeper, more richly biblical way. Think about it: no anger, no cross; no cross, no hope of the final victory of righteousness, mercy, and justice. This would leave us in a world where evil exists inside of us and outside of us with nothing that we could do about it. The entire world and everyone in it would literally be going to hell, and we would be along for the ride with no way of getting off. We would be both victims and also victimizers living in a now and future hell of separation from God and everything that is good, watching darkness get darker with no hope of light. There would be no redeeming hope, no message worth taking the time to prepare and preach.
Anger is one of God’s most beautiful characteristics. For God’s children, his anger is a place of bright hope. Because he is righteously angry with sin every day, we can rest assured that everything sin has broken will be restored. Everything sin twisted will be straightened. Everything that has gone wrong will be made right again. God’s anger assures us that all things will be made new.
If God Weren’t Angry
Because he is righteously angry with sin every single day, we can rest assured that everything sin has broken will be restored.
www.thegospelcoalition.org
101G
Well-known member
the Son of Man is not HUMAN, the son of God is Flesh bone and Blood, ..... human. this is what the Son of Man put on.
son of Man and son of God is not the same.
101G.
Johann
Well-known member
"by the resurrection" God the Father affirmed Jesus' life and message by raising Him from the dead (cf. Rom. 4:24; 6:4,9; 8:11; Acts 2:31-33). The pre-existent Deity of Jesus (cf. John 1:1-14; Col. 1:15-19; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:2-3) and resurrection of Jesus (cf. Rom. 4:25; 10:9-13; 1 Corinthians 15) are the twin pillars of Christianity.
This verse was often used to advocate the heresy of "adoptionism" which asserted that Jesus was rewarded and elevated by God for His exemplary life of obedience.
The heretics asserted that He was not always (ontologically) deity, but became deity when God raised Him from the dead.
Although this is clearly untrue, which is obvious from many texts such as John 1 and 17, something wonderful was conferred on Jesus at His resurrection. It is difficult to express how deity can be rewarded, yet that is what happened. Even though Jesus shared eternal glory with the Father, His status was somehow enriched by the perfect fulfillment of His assigned redemptive task. The resurrection was the Father's affirmation of the life, example, teachings, and sacrificial death of Jesus of Nazareth; eternally divine, fully human, perfect savior, restored and rewarded, unique Son!
Johann
Well-known member
Greek: epei oun ta paidia kekoinoneken (3SRAI) aimatos kai sarkos, kai autos paraplesios metesxen (3SAAI) ton auton, hina dia tou thanatou katargese (3SAAS) ton to kratos echonta (PAPMSA) tou thanatou, tout' estin (3SPAI) ton diabolon,
BGT Ἐπεὶ οὖν τὰ παιδία κεκοινώνηκεν αἵματος καὶ σαρκός, καὶ αὐτὸς παραπλησίως μετέσχεν τῶν αὐτῶν, ἵνα διὰ τοῦ θανάτου καταργήσῃ τὸν τὸ κράτος ἔχοντα τοῦ θανάτου, τοῦτ᾽ ἔστιν τὸν διάβολον,
Amplified: Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature], that by [going through] death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death--that is, the devil-- (Amplified Bible - Lockman)
Barclay: The children then have a common flesh and blood and he completely shared in them, so that, by that death of his, he might bring to nothing him who has the power of death, (Westminster Press)
BBE And because the children are flesh and blood, he took a body himself and became like them; so that by his death he might put an end to him who had the power of death, that is to say, the Evil One;
CSB Now since the children have flesh and blood in common, Jesus also shared in these, so that through His death He might destroy the one holding the power of death-- that is, the Devil--
ESV Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil
KJV Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
NET Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise shared in their humanity, so that through death he could destroy the one who holds the power of death (that is, the devil),
NLT: Because God's children are human beings--made of flesh and blood--Jesus also became flesh and blood by being born in human form. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the Devil, who had the power of death. (NLT - Tyndale House)
Phillips: Since, then, "the children" have a common physical nature as human beings, he also became a human being, so that by going through death as a man he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil (Phillips: Touchstone)
Wuest: Therefore, since the children share in common with one another blood and flesh, He Himself also partook with them in the same, in order that through the aforementioned death He might bring to naught the one having the dominion of death, that is, the Devil.
Young's Literal: Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil--
Johann
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Since the children (paidion) share (koinoneo) in flesh (sarx) and blood (haima) - The children refers to the children of God, not to all humanity, for only believers are truly children of God by grace through faith. Share is in the perfect tense which describes this as the constant human condition. Flesh and blood in the Greek text is in reverse order “blood and flesh.” In the rabbinical writers, this term was a technical phrase speaking of human nature in contrast with God. Since sinners are flesh and flood, Jesus had to become flesh and blood in order to be our substitutionary sacrifice. Jesus set aside the outward display of His deity and veiled His Godhead in a “robe of clay.” (cf Php 2:6-7+).
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