Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[Matthias]

Where do I find a commentary on Dunn? As I have said before-I am past basics on Koine Greek and Hebrew and I am not dismissing you.

Interesting observation that Dunn saw something I missed re the feminine gender and the use of the Masculine logos as used in John..as you said-grammatical gender.

I’ve been posting his commentary on John’s prologue in another thread. (I’ll resume shortly, if able.) It comes from his magnum opus, Christianity In The Making, Volume 3.

 

[Johann]

I’ve been posting his commentary on John’s prologue in another thread. (I’ll resume shortly, if able.) It comes from his magnum opus, Christianity In The Making, Volume 3.

Right-another paid book or commentary beyond my pay grade.

 

[Matthias]

@Johann picked up on the emasculating "it". Good for him! "Steady as she goes"!

That goes for everyone who mistakenly or deliberately misrepresents what John actually wrote.

@Johann has a better grasp on the Hebrew background of the prologue than you do.

He also isn’t treating the orthodox trinitarians who produced those Bibles in the way that you are.

 

[Matthias]

Right-another paid book or commentary beyond my pay grade.

You don’t need to purchase it. I’m quoting it for my readers.

Just a thought, other forum members probably have read the work and may have a copy of it in their personal libraries. They can verify for you that the quotations are genuine.

 

[Johann]

You don’t need to purchase it. I’m quoting it for my readers.

Will see if I can find one on the Internet-I have all the time in the world brother. And patience.

Again, I'm with you, not dismissing you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That accounts for part of your error in what you think about me. I’m formally educated in orthodoxy. The secondary sources aren’t optional in orthodoxy.

Formally means many different things. Formally = secondary. Were you trained by the apostles?

I don't think you should waste time talking about "Orthodoxy" when you do not match any secondary orthodox position yourself. Those are hollow words/claims given your own choices. We are the same.

The secondary sources are essential in understanding how, when, why and where the doctrine of the Trinity was developed and formulated in post-biblical times.

No they are not. It is no more necessary than the sources you distance yourself from in your own lineage. Your own history. You're doing the same things in your process as you condemn in others.

What you found miserable other trinitarians have commended me for reading.

That is not what I said. I was referencing the endless bickering that comes about from pitting opinion against opinion when we have answers in the Scriptures.

 

[Matthias]

Will see if I can find one on the Internet-I have all the time in the world brother. And patience.

Again, I'm with you, not dismissing you.

If it’s in PDF on the Internet I’m not aware of it. If you happen across it, please let me know. It will make my life easier if it is.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What do you make of Jesus being an apostle? See Hebrews 3:1.

You're not quoting the reference properly. Have you ever known about a "definitive article"?

Not just an apostle of many. THE apostle of our faith.

 

[Johann]

If it’s in PDF on the Internet I’m not aware of it. If you happen across it, please let me know. It will make my life easier if it is.

I have all this knowledge re ancient rabbinical writings , Sages, Jewish customs and folklore and can't find a single resource in PDF format in our discussion-I am very familiar with the Hebrew grammatical Syntax etc.

 

[synergy]

@Johann has a better grasp on the Hebrew background of the prologue than you do.

He also isn’t treating the orthodox trinitarians who produced those Bibles in the way that you are.

Sorry to rain on your parade but the Apostles wrote the NT in Koine Greek. That fact was facilitated and preordained because of the LXX that was produced by the Alexandrian Jews themselves. If you have a problem with that you can register your complaint at your nearest Church.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If it’s in PDF on the Internet I’m not aware of it. If you happen across it, please let me know. It will make my life easier if it is.

Funny how you're attempting to be a guide here..... That is one of the reason you desire to stay with your secondary sources. You want people to come to what you have and are comfortable with.

 

[Matthias]

Formally means many different things. Formally = secondary. Were you trained by the apostles?

I was “formally” trained on the doctrine of the Trinity by orthodox trinitarians.

I don't think you should waste time talking about "Orthodoxy" when you do not match any secondary orthodox position yourself.

You’re objection is noted. However, it has been very effective in my presentation to audiences which are orthodox. The information contained in those sources aren’t well-known by the average orthodox trinitarian and is invaluable.

Those are hollow words/claims given your own choices. We are the same.

We aren’t the same.

No they are not. It is no more necessary than the sources you distance yourself from in your own lineage. Your own history. You're doing the same things in your process as you condemn in others.

No. I’m using the sources to educate my audience.

That is not what I said. I was referencing the endless bickering that comes about from pitting opinion against opinion when we have answers in the Scriptures.

You believe unorthodox trinitarianism is in the scriptures. It’s no more in the scriptures than is orthodox trinitarianism.

 

[synergy]

Funny how you're attempting to be a guide here..... That is one of the reason you desire to stay with your secondary sources. You want people to come to what you have and are comfortable with.

Leading a witness...

 

[Johann]

If it’s in PDF on the Internet I’m not aware of it. If you happen across it, please let me know. It will make my life easier if it is.

Nope brother-can't find it which makes it rather frustrating.
J.

 

[Matthias]

I have all this knowledge re ancient rabbinical writings , Sages, Jewish customs and folklore and can't find a single resource in PDF format in our discussion-I am very familiar with the Hebrew grammatical Syntax etc.

You have something which they don’t. Hold onto it. That’s what has you trending in the direction of John’s intention in his prologue and what is preventing them - the JAT, not the orthodox trinitarian translators of the Geneva Bible - from doing the same.

A person can still be an orthodox trinitarian, if that’s what he or she becomes persuaded to be or remain, and not throw away what you have.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We aren’t the same.

Sure we are. You claim I reject Orthodoxy based upon someone's standard. I claim you reject Orthodoxy based upon someone's standard. See the madness in such nonsense?

We are both correct to some degree. We are alike in this.

No. I’m using the sources to educate my audience.

Should I start educating the audience on what Jewish Monotheism really is?

You're losing this logical argument rather badly at the moment.

You believe unorthodox trinitarianism is in the scriptures. It’s no more in the scriptures than is orthodox trinitarianism.

I can say the same thing about Jewish Monotheism. The difference being, I'm more than willing to discuss the Scriptures while you insist upon secondary opinion we both reject to some degree.

See the madness in just an approach?

 

[Matthias]

Funny how you're attempting to be a guide here.....

Why? Among other things, I’m a retired teacher. I’m guiding him to orthodox trinitarian sources and encouraging @Johann (and others, indirectly) to think for himself.

That is one of the reason you desire to stay with your secondary sources. You want people to come to what you have and are comfortable with.

Those secondary sources are where the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is found.

 

[Dizerner]

Yo, I'm a Jewish Monotheist.

Not incompatible.

 

[Johann]

You have something which they don’t. Hold onto it. That’s what has you trending in the direction of John’s intention in his prologue and what is preventing them - the JAT, not the orthodox trinitarian translators of the Geneva Bible - from doing the same.

A person can still be an orthodox trinitarian, if that’s what he or she becomes persuaded to be or remain, and not throw away what you have.

But it becomes rather frustrating to hold a conversation when the Logos users have it all on their software Achi-I have a Jewish orthodox brother and we can hold a conversation for hours.
My computer is FULL of Jewish writings and then some more.
An aside-my wife was Jewish.
J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why? Among other things, I’m a retired teacher. I’m guiding him to orthodox trinitarian sources and encouraging @Johann (and others, indirectly) to think for himself.

Like he isn't already doing that..... You're not directing him to a your preferred sources. We can all agree upon the Scriptures.

I'm guiding you. Please don't pay attention to the Scriptures. I have something you need. Just listen to me..... See how that works?

Those secondary sources are where the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is found.

Not it is not. It is found in the Scriptures.