Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

They have that particular book available only on audio. You would have to listen to it rather than read it.
Maybe there is a reason for all the trouble me not finding these sources-I am grateful for what I have.

Your advice is excellent.

My advice: Don’t let anyone do your thinking for you. Read as much as you can about the subject and then decide for yourself.

Since I am a left hander, playing my guitar left hand and was a worship leader in the Ark-I can retain and memorize much from reading.
You show me a thing one time and then let me do it since I am visually orientated-and I won't miss a hair at 50 yards.

Thanks brother.
 
This is not helping me brother-but before you think I am sounding ungrateful, I am not

Thanks for going the extra mile.
Shalom Achi.
J.

Among other things, I’m a retired civil engineer.

In the words of a rather atrocious band (imo) known as Devo, “When a problem comes along you must whip it.”

I spent 40 years of my life whipping complicated problems. The complication of your problem is gaining access.

Two additional potential solutions:

1. Do you have access to a local public library? If so, your local library may have the book. If not, they still might be able to help you borrow a copy from another library.

I don’t know if this will work in South Africa but, in the United States, many public libraries have an agreement to loan books from one public library to another. For example, my local library in Kentucky is able to locate and request books from other public libraries located in Kentucky as well as in other US states. And not only from other public libraries. A couple of years ago I wanted to read a book that my local library didn’t have and couldn’t locate in another public library. However, my local library was able to locate the book at a seminary library. They contacted the seminary and within a week I had the book in my hot little hands. When I finished reading it I returned it to my local library and they, in turn, returned it to the seminary library.

2. Do you have access to a local church? If so, you could pay a call on the pastor and explain that you are looking for this book. He might have the book in the church library (if there is one; many churches have libraries) or in his personal library that he might be willing to let you borrow. He might also have contacts with pastors (or others) who could loan you the book.
 
Just peruse YouTube or Google and there you have it-from more than one source.
J.
Leighton is a solid guy, a former calvinist who is a professor at Texas Baptist Seminary and teaches apologetics and missions/evangelism to seminary students.
 
1. Do you have access to a local public library? If so, your local library may have the book. If not, they still might be able to help you borrow a copy from another library.
Funny that you should mention this-the local library-just the other day I found a book with guitar scales-went home, just to find the pages on the scales were missing-we are not a First World nation brother.
I have exhausted all avenues-it is not for a lack of trying. That's why I make an appeal online, not where I am.
2. Do you have access to a local church? If so, you could pay a call on the pastor and explain that you are looking for this book. He might have the book in the church library (if there is one; many churches have libraries) or in his personal library that he might be willing to let you borrow. He might also have contacts with pastors who could loan you the book.
No, I have a severely cerebral palsied son who needs daily care 24/7 and nothing here is wheelchair friendly.
Leave this brother-I live by faith in real time and is currently under severe stress-I am human, after all. An aside, I don't have a car.
Johann.
 
Leighton is a solid guy, a former calvinist who is a professor at Texas Baptist Seminary and teaches apologetics and missions/evangelism to seminary students.
I can show you many, many Protestants who have embraced Roman Catholic's-is Leighton really that solid?
Think I will stay with Utley-he is edifying me.
J.
 
Funny that you should mention this-the local library-just the other day I found a book with guitar scales-went home, just to find the pages on the scales were missing-we are not a First World nation brother.
I have exhausted all avenues-it is not for a lack of trying. That's why I make an appeal online, not where I am.

No, I have a severely cerebral palsied son who needs daily care 24/7 and nothing here is wheelchair friendly.
Leave this brother-I live by faith in real time and is currently under severe stress-I am human, after all. An aside, I don't have a car.
Johann.

I have one more possible solution to offer you. If you will accept it, I will wire you the money necessary to purchase a good used copy of the book.

I don’t want you to think that I’m trying to influence your decision by this gesture. You might read the book and reject orthodox trinitarianism. You might read the book and accept orthodox trinitarianism. You might read the book and remain undecided about orthodox trinitarianism. Whatever you decide, decide based on what you are persuaded is the truth about it.
 
Who?

Provisionalism is the supportive behavior that contrasts certainty. This is when one person feels they are correct but is willing to listen to the other person and is prepared to change their mind or opinion if the other idea is more reasonable.

Utley?
No I’m talking about soteriology 101 and Dr Leighton Flowers who is a professor at Texas Baptist Seminary
 
He is not a Catholic he is a Baptist who is a
:)
Who?

Provisionalism is the supportive behavior that contrasts certainty. This is when one person feels they are correct but is willing to listen to the other person and is prepared to change their mind or opinion if the other idea is more reasonable.

Utley?
No I’m talking about soteriology 101 and Dr Leighton Flowers who is a professor at Texas Baptist Seminary
And I've just told you Soteriology 101 is being debunked


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z2udZjtycw&pp=ygUYU2F0ZXJpb2xvZ3kgMTAxIGRlYnVua2Vk-exellent dismantling-not that I concur though.

I have also said I will stay with Utley-he is really honing my discerning skills, in the sphere of the Holy Spirit, of course. And the amazing part is that he is largely an "unknown factor" there, not here, where I am brother.

Here, my door is open to all-especially the homeless, disenfranchised, marginalized-living in the outer peripheral areas of the inner city.
Shalom brother.
Enough of "me"
J.
 
I have one more possible solution to offer you. If you will accept it, I will wire you the money necessary to purchase a good used copy of the book.

I don’t want you to think that I’m trying to influence your decision by this gesture. You might read the book and reject orthodox trinitarianism. You might read the book and accept orthodox trinitarianism. You might read the book and remain undecided about orthodox trinitarianism. Whatever you decide, decide based on what you are persuaded is the truth about it.

@Johann it’s not the end of the world if you don’t read Dr. Brown’s book. I think it’s excellent. It’s one of my favorite books. It has underscored my decision to abandon orthodox trinitarianism. (I’ve known many more people who have accepted orthodox trinitarianism - or returned to it - after reading his book.)

There are many books, written by many authors, that deal with the subject of historical orthodox trinitarianism. Some write in favor of it; some write in opposition to it.

I like Dr. Brown’s book because he writes in favor of it and he wrote it, primarily, for people just like me who have abandoned it. He’s calling me back. If he were still alive I would thank him for having done so. He gently, and lovingly, gave me reasons to reevaluate and reconsider. He did me a good service.

Read Church history. It’s well-preserved and available to anyone interested in reading it, at no cost, online.
 
I have one more possible solution to offer you. If you will accept it, I will wire you the money necessary to purchase a good used copy of the book.

I don’t want you to think that I’m trying to influence your decision by this gesture. You might read the book and reject orthodox trinitarianism. You might read the book and accept orthodox trinitarianism. You might read the book and remain undecided about orthodox trinitarianism. Whatever you decide, decide based on what you are persuaded is the truth about it.
Thank you for this kind gesture brother but I have no clue how to go about it.
All I seek is truth and still don't know what you are talking about re Orthodox Trinitarians.
Up until a few days ago, as I have read your posts I was impressed by your rock solid stance in what you believe is THE truth even in the face of opposition.

This is how I want to be-giving God the glory, not vacillating in my beliefs and convictions and hopefully leave a legacy behind as a man not afraid to withstand opposition, rightly cutting straight the word of God.

You have win my deepest respect without you knowing it.
Johann.
 
@Johann if you haven’t read Philip Schaff’s History of the Christian Church, it’s available online, at no cost. Here is a link to it:


Dr. Schaff, if you’re unfamiliar with him, was an orthodox trinitarian.


The transforming spiritual power of Christianity appears first in the lives of individuals. The apostles and primitive Christians rose to a morality and piety far above that of the heroes of heathen virtue and even that of the Jewish saints. Their daily walk was a living union with Christ, ever seeking the glory of God and the salvation of men. Many of the cardinal virtues, humility, for example, and love for enemies, were unknown before the Christian day.

Peter, Paul, and John represent the various leading forms or types of Christian piety, as well as of theology. They were not without defect, indeed they themselves acknowledged only one sinless being, their Lord and Master, and they confessed their own shortcomings;626 yet they were as nearly perfect as it is possible to be in a sinful world; and the moral influence of their lives and writings on all generations of the church is absolutely immeasurable.

Each exhibits the spirit and life of Christ in a peculiar way. For the gospel does not destroy, but redeems and sanctifies the natural talents and tempers of men. It consecrates the fire of a Peter, the energy of a Paul, and the pensiveness of a John to the same service of God. It most strikingly displays its new creating power in the sudden conversion of the apostle of the Gentiles from a most dangerous foe to a most efficient friend of the church. Upon Paul the Spirit of God came as an overwhelming storm; upon John, as a gentle, refreshing breeze. But in all dwelt the same new, supernatural, divine principle of life. All are living apologies for Christianity, whose force no truth-loving heart can resist.


Notice, too, the moral effects of the gospel in the female characters of the New Testament. Christianity raises woman from the slavish position which she held both in Judaism and in heathendom, to her true moral dignity and importance; makes her an heir of the same salvation with man,627 and opens to her a field for the noblest and loveliest virtues, without thrusting her, after the manner of modern pseudo-philanthropic schemes of emancipation, out of her appropriate sphere of private, domestic life, and thus stripping her of her fairest ornament and peculiar charm.

The Virgin Mary marks the turning point in the history of the female sex. As the mother of Christ, the second Adam, she corresponds to Eve, and is, in a spiritual sense, the mother of all living.628 In her, the "blessed among women," the whole sex wass blessed, and the curse removed which had hung over the era of the fall. She was not, indeed, free from actual and native sin, as is now, taught, without the slightest ground in Scripture, by the Roman church since the 8th of December, 1854. On the contrary, as a daughter of Adam, she needed, like all men, redemption and sanctification through Christ, the sole author of sinless holiness, and she herself expressly calls God her Saviour.629 But in the mother and educator of the Saviour of the world we no doubt may and should revere, though not worship, the model of female Christian virtue, of purity, tenderness, simplicity, humility, perfect obedience to God, and unreserved surrender to Christ. Next to her we have a lovely group of female disciples and friends around the Lord: Mary, the wife of Clopas; Salome, the mother of James and John; Mary of Bethany, who sat at Jesus’ feet; her busy and hospitable sister, Martha; Mary of Magdala, whom the Lord healed of a demoniacal possession; the sinner, who washed his feet with her tears of penitence and wiped them with her hair; and all the noble women, who ministered to the Son of man in his earthly poverty with the gifts of their love,630 lingered last around his cross,631 and were the first at his open sepulchre on the, morning of the resurrection.632

Henceforth we find woman no longer a slave of man and tool of lust, but the pride and joy of her husband, the fond mother training her children to virtue and godliness, the ornament and treasure of the family, the faithful sister, the zealous servant of the congregation in every work of Christian charity, the sister of mercy, the martyr with superhuman courage, the guardian angel of peace, the example of purity, humility, gentleness, patience, love, and fidelity unto death. Such women were unknown before. The heathen Libanius, the enthusiastic eulogist of old Grecian culture, pronounced an involuntary eulogy on Christianity when he exclaimed, as he looked at the mother of Chrysostom: "What women the Christians have!"

I have book marked this dear brother-and trust this will edify me and cause me to grow more and more into the imagode of our Lord Christ Jesus.
Be patient with me as I am a "spiritual wreck" and in desperate need of fellowship with other saints.
Johann.
 
Thank you for this kind gesture brother but I have no clue how to go about it.
All I seek is truth and still don't know what you are talking about re Orthodox Trinitarians.
Up until a few days ago, as I have read your posts I was impressed by your rock solid stance in what you believe is THE truth even in the face of opposition.

This is how I want to be-giving God the glory, not vacillating in my beliefs and convictions and hopefully leave a legacy behind as a man not afraid to withstand opposition, rightly cutting straight the word of God.

You have win my deepest respect without you knowing it.
Johann.

You’ve said some very complimentary things about me in this post, and I appreciate your sincerity.

A word of caution. Some of the most evil people in the history of mankind have taken rock solid stances in what they sincerely believed was the truth, even, and especially, in the face of strong and determined opposition. So, too, have good people.

Those who truly are defenders of orthodox trinitarianism will tell you that I am of the devil, not of God. They know, and have rightly said, that I am a spiritual enemy of orthodoxy. I was once of their deity, but I’m not any longer.

Decide the matter of the truthfulness of historical orthodox trinitarianism, but don‘t decide the matter based on the rock solid stance anyone takes for or against orthodoxy.

I’m willing to die for the Messiah’s God. I’m not willing to die for the deity of orthodox trinitarianism, nor for any other deity. (They are idols.) That doesn’t prove that I’m right. All it proves is that I’m fully committed and willing to surrender my life for what (and who) I believe is true.

You will find orthodox trinitarians who are willing to do the same for what they believe is true. That doesn’t prove that they are right. All that it proves is that they are every bit as committed to what they are persuaded is true as I am.
 
You’ve said some very complimentary things about me in this post, and I appreciate your sincerity.

A word of caution. Some of the most evil people in the history of mankind have taken rock solid stances in what they sincerely believed was the truth, even, and especially, in the face of strong and determined opposition. So, too, have good people.

Those who truly are defenders of orthodox trinitarianism will tell you that I am of the devil, not of God. They know, and have rightly said, that I am a spiritual enemy of orthodoxy. I was once of their deity, but I’m not any longer.

Decide the matter of the truthfulness of historical orthodox trinitarianism, but don‘t decide the matter based on the rock solid stance anyone takes for or against orthodoxy.

I’m willing to die for the Messiah’s God. I’m not willing to die for the deity of orthodox trinitarianism, nor for any other deity. )They are idols.) That doesn’t prove that I’m right. All it proves is that I’m fully committed and willing to surrender my life for what (and who) I believe is true.

You will find orthodox trinitarians who are willing to do the same for what they believe is true. That doesn’t prove that they are right. All that it proves is that they are every bit as committed to what they are persuaded is true as I am.
The better question I propose is are you willing to die for the Messiah, the one who died for your sins ?
 
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