Is Everything Predetermined?

[civic]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Satan's desire was doing evil towards the Absolute Good One who committed no sin.
Was it not?
For Satan desired to assassinate the Lord, and take over the Lord's throne!

That is why Jesus said the following about Satan.

​

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. ​

He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth ​

in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44​

​

If we do not begin to understand why God allows evil to take place, too many Christians are going to become naïve dupes when evil finally decides to actually make its big move to destroy our freedom! Its already gobbling up our national freedom wherever ignorance of Bible doctrine is manifested and we see believers ending up being naïve and confused.
...........

So God is not only the cause of evil but the originator who is responsible/ culpable for those evil deeds correct ?

 

[GeneZ]

So God is not only the cause of evil but the originator who is responsible/ culpable for those evil deeds correct ?

May I ask?

Why are you having such a problem with this?

Does not life throughout human history show us that something is going on in the invisible realm?

AND..... God has allowed for all of it to happen?

If we cling to our sheltered life way of thinking, we will find ourselves to be without any real shelter when real disaster comes upon our nation.

Why did God allow air raids to kill many British during WWll?
Allow Jews to be killed off in concentration camps?

Allow for the atomic bombs to be dropped upon Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

And.. allow for elections to be rigged?


................

 

[GeneZ]

So God is not only the cause of evil but the originator who is responsible/ culpable for those evil deeds correct ?

NO... that is twisting the intent to avoid facing what really is happening to us in life

 

[civic]

NO... that is twisting the intent to avoid facing what really is happening to us in life

If God ordained the evil then it makes Him guilty just as if you hired a hit man to kill somebody you would be culpable.

 

[GeneZ]

If God ordained the evil then it makes Him guilty just as if you hired a hit man to kill somebody you would be culpable.

What do you mean by "ordained?"


It went from 'decreed,' to now being 'ordained?'

Define those words, please.

 

[civic]

What do you mean by "ordained?"


It went from 'decreed,' to now being 'ordained?'

Define those words, please.

Decreed , ordained, caused to happen, predetermined, predestined I’m using as synonyms.

 

[GeneZ]

Decreed , ordained, caused to happen, predetermined, predestined I’m using as synonyms.

Not really. Ordained is God's choice.

Decreed is God's choice for what is to happen.. For what will actually take place out from the many possibilities.

Out of many possibilities God narrowed it down to one manifestation of reality in time. That is a decree.
That means God determines what will happen. Not that God determined how we want to choose.
But, knowing how we would want to choose, and then working it into his plan to achieve His ultimate desired outcome....

God did not make Judas want to reject Jesus. God knowing how Judas would want to choose, predetermined that Judas
would be born and living in the location and time for Jesus to choose Judas for a disciple.....

Decreed, so that God could fulfill the atonement using Judas knowing how Judas would want to choose.

Ordained would mean God made Judas reject Jesus, like God makes some of us to have certain spiritual gifts.
For, we do not choose what gift we are to have. God determined that outside of our will.

...............

 

[brightfame52]

God decreed "that what shall be, shall be."

He in His omniscience - knowing what could happen - could have not allowed for the circumstances to take place, and therefore having something never happen.

That is one way how he predetermines what will happen.

How and why does God know all things that will happen ?

 

[brightfame52]

@GeneZ

Decreed is God's choice for what is to happen.

Correct because He first determined it to happen, He's the first cause of everything and everyone. Before He made you and I , the world even, He predetermined every moment of our lives, every decision we will make

 

[GeneZ]

How and why does God know all things that will happen ?

Why do you ask such a question?
What can't you answer for yourself?

 

[GeneZ]

@GeneZ



Correct because He first determined it to happen, He's the first cause of everything and everyone. Before He made you and I , the world even, He predetermined every moment of our lives, every decision we will make

He predetermined every decision we would want to make, to be allowed to be made, and made.

Why are you having a problem with this? Are we robots?

 

[brightfame52]

He predetermined every decision we would want to make, to be allowed to be made, and made.

Why are you having a problem with this? Are we robots?

He first determined it to happen, He's the first cause of everything and everyone. Before He made you and I , the world even, He predetermined every moment of our lives, every decision we will make

 

[GeneZ]

He first determined it to happen, He's the first cause of everything and everyone. Before He made you and I , the world even, He predetermined every moment of our lives, every decision we will make.

But, we will make the decisions.
He did not determine how we would make our decisions.

Not so? Well hello Mr. Robot.

 

[atpollard]

He did not determine how we would make our decisions.

We will make one of two decisions …

• According to our nature.
• Contrary to our nature.

Like an ”drunk” choosing to drink too much, or a thief choosing to steal, or a liar choosing to lie or a crack addict choosing to do whatever it takes to get high, we are born ”addicted” to our sin and both will and must freely choose to act according to our “sin addiction”. The crack addict physically CANNOT choose to just “say no” … the psychological and physiological components of their addiction will not allow it. It is an impossibility (not because the words are impossible to say, or because nobody EVER says no to drugs, but because they are a slave to their addiction). We (all of humanity) is a slave to our sin addiction (the Bible says so). Thus we can always be counted on to choose according to our nature.

UNLESS … God steps in and causes us to make a decision contrary to OUR nature … like an intervention with a drug addict. Then we are compelled by grace to act according to His nature (the Bible says that, too). Thus either way, God is in control … either passively “giving us over to our desires” (as Romans 1 states) or by giving us both the desire and the power to do what pleases Him (as Philippians 2:13 states). So whether we act ACCORDING TO our nature or CONTRARY TO our nature rests in God’s hands.

Proverbs 21:1 [NKJV] The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [Like] the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.

 

[brightfame52]

But, we will make the decisions.
He did not determine how we would make our decisions.

Not so? Well hello Mr. Robot.

We make the decisions God has predetermined we should make.

 

[civic]

We will make one of two decisions …

• According to our nature.
• Contrary to our nature.

Like an ”drunk” choosing to drink too much, or a thief choosing to steal, or a liar choosing to lie or a crack addict choosing to do whatever it takes to get high, we are born ”addicted” to our sin and both will and must freely choose to act according to our “sin addiction”. The crack addict physically CANNOT choose to just “say no” … the psychological and physiological components of their addiction will not allow it. It is an impossibility (not because the words are impossible to say, or because nobody EVER says no to drugs, but because they are a slave to their addiction). We (all of humanity) is a slave to our sin addiction (the Bible says so). Thus we can always be counted on to choose according to our nature.

UNLESS … God steps in and causes us to make a decision contrary to OUR nature … like an intervention with a drug addict. Then we are compelled by grace to act according to His nature (the Bible says that, too). Thus either way, God is in control … either passively “giving us over to our desires” (as Romans 1 states) or by giving us both the desire and the power to do what pleases Him (as Philippians 2:13 states). So whether we act ACCORDING TO our nature or CONTRARY TO our nature rests in God’s hands.

There are plenty on non Christians who have given up drug snd alcohol addictions through programs like AA. So the above is a misnomer. It may be true in some cases but for sure that doesn’t apply to all universally.

 

[GeneZ]

We will make one of two decisions …

• According to our nature.
• Contrary to our nature.

Like an ”drunk” choosing to drink too much, or a thief choosing to steal, or a liar choosing to lie or a crack addict choosing to do whatever it takes to get high, we are born ”addicted” to our sin and both will and must freely choose to act according to our “sin addiction”. The crack addict physically CANNOT choose to just “say no” … the psychological and physiological components of their addiction will not allow it. It is an impossibility (not because the words are impossible to say, or because nobody EVER says no to drugs, but because they are a slave to their addiction). We (all of humanity) is a slave to our sin addiction (the Bible says so). Thus we can always be counted on to choose according to our nature.

UNLESS … God steps in and causes us to make a decision contrary to OUR nature … like an intervention with a drug addict. Then we are compelled by grace to act according to His nature (the Bible says that, too). Thus either way, God is in control … either passively “giving us over to our desires” (as Romans 1 states) or by giving us both the desire and the power to do what pleases Him (as Philippians 2:13 states). So whether we act ACCORDING TO our nature or CONTRARY TO our nature rests in God’s hands.

Proverbs 21:1 [NKJV] The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [Like] the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; ​

behold, all things have become new. " 2 Cor 5:17​

 

[atpollard]

There are plenty on non Christians who have given up drug snd alcohol addictions through programs like AA.

What is Step 1 of AA? [Total Inability]
What is Step 2 of AA? [Sola Gratia, Sola Fide]
What is Step 3 of AA? [Salvation]

 

[civic]

What is Step 1 of AA? [Total Inability]
What is Step 2 of AA? [Sola Gratia, Sola Fide]

I’m talking about the unregenerate. They are doing it in the flesh apart from God.

 

[atpollard]

I’m talking about the unregenerate. They are doing it in the flesh apart from God.

Stating facts not in evidence.
The AA 12 step program is born of the Christian faith and has Christian Salvation codified in its DNA. Therefore, answer the questions identifying the first 3 steps and explain how a person gets to step 4 and remains “unregenerate”. YOU are the advocate of Free Will Synergism … why did God refuse to accept them if they were seeking?